What's your opinion on Kevlar?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

So now you don't want bullet proof vests to be sold to the public
because they.....MIGHT BE STOLEN!!! OH MY GOD!

You're fucking clueless, Strowbridge..

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

So a bullet proof vest does no good?

Odd of being shot: 0.00367%

[haas mark]

Culture of Fear:

300,000 guns are stolen anually.
15,000 people are killed with guns every year,

ONCE AGAIN, as opposed to how many people that had their Kevlar vests stolen?

I don't have those figures, cause BPV are not common enough to be targets. However, if they are common they'd be stolen at the same rate as guns. That's half my argument.

Well, the other half being the proof that the trend would stay the same. Concession Accepted. You can't provide evidence, you have no arguement.

And how many of those guns were stolen, friend?

.... Uhhhh .... I'm not sure how to answer this.

300,000 guns are stolen anually.

Wrong answer. How many gun deaths were caused by stolen guns? Could I be any clearer? *Q-tips would be good for this situation*

Disastercenter.com:

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

In fact, when was the last time you heard of a child dying in the crossfire?

Last time there was a drive-by, more than likely. We don't hear about them here because they happen too often. Maybe they don't happen where you are, but some of us live in the suburbs. Snob.

Really? So kid is shot and killed and it doesn't make the news? Where do you live? The West Bank?

Fucking New Mexico, asshole. They don't make reports when it happen so often.

This is where I call you a liar.

Liar.

Ass. When you come live where I do, or in the projects of Chicago, or NYC, or LA, and tell me that the murders are reported, I have more right to call you a liar than you have to call me one.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

So a bullet proof vest does no good?

Odd of being shot: 0.00367%

Odds of Strowbridge learning: 0.000000000000%

[haas mark]

Odd of being shot: 0.00367%

This means what? Does a BPV do good or not? YES OR NO. The answer to this question will not come in numbers.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Wow. That means each and every Kevlar vest bought will UNERRINGLY fall into the hands of criminals.

Ok, granted, that was poor communication on my part. But the point still should have been obvious to anyone reading, who hasn't already made up their minds.

That point, again.

If BPV become common they will be a main target of theft.
If BPV become common they will be stolen more often then they are used to save lives.

Each live saved will arm hundred of criminals with BPV.

That's bad.

[haas mark]

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Wow. That means each and every Kevlar vest bought will UNERRINGLY fall into the hands of criminals.

Ok, granted, that was poor communication on my part. But the point still should have been obvious to anyone reading, who hasn't already made up their minds.

That point, again.

If BPV become common they will be a main target of theft.

Without telling me that it will stay in the trend (because you can provide no evidence other than your own opinion), how is this true? Again, all it does is hinder the criminal becasue (A) he moves slower, and (B) usually they aren't going to think about details such as this. Most of the time, in fact.

If BPV become common they will be stolen more often then they are used to save lives.

Then they won't be used to save the criminals' lives, even if they are stolen? Right. And how are you to know that they will be stolen so often? AFAIK, you don't know what our future looks like.

Each live saved will arm hundred of criminals with BPV.

That's bad.

How is that possible? A life saved = a criminal armed!? WTF!? How did you come to that conclusion?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Except they can't. A hundred peasents with guns can kill ten knights, but one peasent vs. one knight and the knight will win most of the time.

Now you're just being stupid. The peasant kills the knight at several hundred
yards with his primitive blackpowder rifle....

No, peasent fires. Peasent misses. Peasent takes a minute to reload. Knight charges up to peasent. Knight kills peasent.

At several hundred yards a blackpowder rifle's ability to kill would be horrible.

Why do you think knights disappeared from the battlefield?

Cause it was cheaper, and faster, to arm a hundred peasent than it was to train one knight. If a peasent died you just gave his gun to the next one. Same can't be said for each knight that died.

It was the economics of the situation, not the one-on-one combat abilities. There's strength in numbers that can't be denied.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

No shit Sherlock. But if the odds of a gun being stolen are higher than the odds of a vest being stolen, then what does that make you? A MORON. And if bullet proof vests become common, they will go down in price, making them more widely available to the public. Two things, CSS:

1) Common Sense
2) Economics.

Arg. What do I have to say for you to understand. BPV will, most likely, be stolen at the same rate per BPV as guns are today. I.E. 3.896%

BPV will continue to have the same oppurtunity to save lives as they have today. I.E. 0.00367%

Therefore, ratio of BPV that will be stolen to BPV that might save a life: 1000

Is there anything you need clearifying?

[haas mark]

Except they can't. A hundred peasents with guns can kill ten knights, but one peasent vs. one knight and the knight will win most of the time.

Now you're just being stupid. The peasant kills the knight at several hundred
yards with his primitive blackpowder rifle....

No, peasent fires. Peasent misses. Peasent takes a minute to reload. Knight charges up to peasent. Knight kills peasent.

At several hundred yards a blackpowder rifle's ability to kill would be horrible.

Peasant dodges. But what if peasant hits?

Why do you think knights disappeared from the battlefield?

Cause it was cheaper, and faster, to arm a hundred peasent than it was to train one knight. If a peasent died you just gave his gun to the next one. Same can't be said for each knight that died.

Oh? What do you think the knights did? They got killed off.

It was the economics of the situation, not the one-on-one combat abilities. There's strength in numbers that can't be denied.

Economics:

Cost of vest < Cost of surgery.
In the long run, Cost of Vest (en totale) > Cost of Surgeries (en totale)
THis helps the economy better than I can imagine.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Provide cites for the number of civilians saved by BPV.

Over 850 people have been saved by Second Chance Body
armor since they started making vests.

http://www.secondchance.com/news.asp

And how many of those were cops, or as they are known in this debate, red herrings.

[haas mark]

No shit Sherlock. But if the odds of a gun being stolen are higher than the odds of a vest being stolen, then what does that make you? A MORON. And if bullet proof vests become common, they will go down in price, making them more widely available to the public. Two things, CSS:

1) Common Sense
2) Economics.

Arg. What do I have to say for you to understand. BPV will, most likely, be stolen at the same rate per BPV as guns are today. I.E. 3.896%

Simple enough. You have to say to me that you have evidence that the trend will stay the same, ie, that vests will be stolen at a rate of 3.896% (which, btw, is very low).

BPV will continue to have the same oppurtunity to save lives as they have today. I.E. 0.00367%

True, but have you ever thought about other things that might penetrate other than bullets?

Therefore, ratio of BPV that will be stolen to BPV that might save a life: 1000

Is there anything you need clearifying?

How you came to that conclusion.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

No, peasent fires. Peasent misses. Peasent takes a minute to reload. Knight charges up to peasent. Knight kills peasent.

At several hundred yards a blackpowder rifle's ability to kill would be horrible.

Now you're making even more sense. Hey guys, let's shoot the guy on horseback in armor carrying a lance so that we MIGHT hit him. Why? So we can waste our ammo, spend our time reloading, get killed by a knight and satisfy CSS-wannabe's wet dreams.

Why do you think knights disappeared from the battlefield?

Cause it was cheaper, and faster, to arm a hundred peasent than it was to train one knight. If a peasent died you just gave his gun to the next one. Same can't be said for each knight that died.

And this means WHAT? Are you even addressing the point? Oh, no wait, it's a RED HERRING!

It was the economics of the situation, not the one-on-one combat abilities. There's strength in numbers that can't be denied.

Are you an economist? You talk about efficiency and economics so much, you must have been born in a pile of shit like most economists are, to facilitate their intake and expulsion of bullshit. Which is what you are doing now. No bloody wonder people hate economists so fucking much, if they're like you.

Feel the pinch? Your flanks rolling up on you? Your flimsy "arguments" which are actually deranged fantasies sprung from a twisted mind collapsing on your head?



Maybe you can understand this. it looks like it was drawn by something of your mental calibre (0.22 or less).

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Same is true today. One poorly trained loser with a gun won't be able to take out an expericenced criminal who has real combat experience.

Right. That means all perps drill themselves on their guns like fucking navy SEALs. All cops will miss because their training is inadequate, no matter what they do.

I'm not talking about fucking cops. I'm talking about the average loser who buys a gun to protect himself from a crime that has a 99.99633% chance of NEVER happen. And that gun he bought? It has a 3.896% chance of being stolen.

Didn't I tell you to go shoot yourself just now? Or do you have to read THAT a few hundred times before it sinks in?

Gee, so your inability to read is somehow my fault?

[haas mark]

Note: The knight is wearing armor. Armor in this case = Kevlar vest. Even if the peasant shoots and hits, the knight lives.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You live in a neighborhood where crime isn't all that common. Some of us live in suburbs. Suburbs are normal. Crime happens a lot more in suburbs than urban areas.

I'd like to see some proof.

[haas mark]

Same is true today. One poorly trained loser with a gun won't be able to take out an expericenced criminal who has real combat experience.

Right. That means all perps drill themselves on their guns like fucking navy SEALs. All cops will miss because their training is inadequate, no matter what they do.

I'm not talking about fucking cops. I'm talking about the average loser who buys a gun to protect himself from a crime that has a 99.99633% chance of NEVER happen. And that gun he bought? It has a 3.896% chance of being stolen.

They also have a 96.104% chance of NOT being stolen. And I did that math in my head.

Didn't I tell you to go shoot yourself just now? Or do you have to read THAT a few hundred times before it sinks in?

Gee, so your inability to read is somehow my fault?

Your inability to read is his?

[haas mark]

You live in a neighborhood where crime isn't all that common. Some of us live in suburbs. Suburbs are normal. Crime happens a lot more in suburbs than urban areas.

I'd like to see some proof.

Show me some proof that Kevlar vests will be stolen at the same rate.

And as far as my proof, its called a high school US Government class.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

I'm not talking about fucking cops. I'm talking about the average loser who buys a gun to protect himself from a crime that has a 99.99633% chance of NEVER happen. And that gun he bought? It has a 3.896% chance of being stolen.

Which means what? Means FUCK ALL, you asshole! The point is why he buys Kevlar, not if he carries a gun, which you should, to kill yourself when you finally realize what an idiot you are.

Didn't I tell you to go shoot yourself just now? Or do you have to read THAT a few hundred times before it sinks in?

Gee, so your inability to read is somehow my fault?

Wow, so now you're transferring YOUR inability to comprehend the English language, a feat which most three-year olds can accomplish, to me?

Get fucked.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You're more likely to die of a heart-attack from eating convenience store food than from a gun shot.

Guess which one is easier to prevent? Guess which one requires a major lifestyle change and which one requires a Kevlar vest?

The heart-attack. If you drop your odds of having a heart attack from 50% to 49% it's more than 200 times greater than the maximum possible effect the Kelvar vest will have.

Remember, we're dealing with miniscule numbers here. More people get Tuberculosis than are shot. When was the last time you hear about Tuberculosis on the news?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You're more likely to die of a heart-attack from eating convenience store food than from a gun shot.

This means nothing. Obnesity is a disease. Gun shots aren't.

Yes is does mean something. It means everything.

Your protecting yourself from a boogeyman.

...

Hey, that's an excellent analogy. Up to 2 decimal places the boogeyman has the same chance of killing you as a gun does. Will that help?

[haas mark]

You're more likely to die of a heart-attack from eating convenience store food than from a gun shot.

Guess which one is easier to prevent? Guess which one requires a major lifestyle change and which one requires a Kevlar vest?

The heart-attack. If you drop your odds of having a heart attack from 50% to 49% it's more than 200 times greater than the maximum possible effect the Kelvar vest will have.

Maybe so, but heart attacks happen on a wider range of people. Which changes the dynamics of the situation. It's completely unrelated.

Remember, we're dealing with miniscule numbers here. More people get Tuberculosis than are shot. When was the last time you hear about Tuberculosis on the news?

You don't hear about tuberculosis on the news. You hear about shootings on the news.

Also, to bring up a poitn, do you realize how many kids could have been saved in the schools hottings had they been wearing vests?

[haas mark]

You're more likely to die of a heart-attack from eating convenience store food than from a gun shot.

This means nothing. Obnesity is a disease. Gun shots aren't.

Yes is does mean something. It means everything.

Means nothing. You are putting wounds in the same class as diseases.

Your protecting yourself from a boogeyman.

Only if you consider that boogeyman death.

...

Hey, that's an excellent analogy. Up to 2 decimal places the boogeyman has the same chance of killing you as a gun does. Will that help?

I don't remember death being able to kill me.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Not many criminals with "Real combat experience out there" and those that have been in gunfighters are those most likely to run away rather then bother fighting it out. Why? Because it's simply not worth it. They can find another person to rob easier then they can find a new kidney. Thats what experiance teaches.

Your average gun owner is far more likely to be familiar with there weapon, which likely cost them quite a bit as well, then some punk who bought a .22 for 135 dollars, has never been to a range in his life and will dump it as soon as they can.

More criminals will have been in gunfights than their victims. That's pretty much what makes them criminals.

Anywho, while most pick easy targets, others learn to shoot first. And it's that limited situation I'm talking about. Some here think they'll drop, roll and come up shooting like some computer geek James Bond.

That simply aint going to happen.

[haas mark]

Not many criminals with "Real combat experience out there" and those that have been in gunfighters are those most likely to run away rather then bother fighting it out. Why? Because it's simply not worth it. They can find another person to rob easier then they can find a new kidney. Thats what experiance teaches.

Your average gun owner is far more likely to be familiar with there weapon, which likely cost them quite a bit as well, then some punk who bought a .22 for 135 dollars, has never been to a range in his life and will dump it as soon as they can.

More criminals will have been in gunfights than their victims. That's pretty much what makes them criminals.

Cite.

Anywho, while most pick easy targets, others learn to shoot first. And it's that limited situation I'm talking about. Some here think they'll drop, roll and come up shooting like some computer geek James Bond.

Ummm....you lost me somewhere in that circular logic of yours...

That simply aint going to happen.

No, they're not going to pop up. But the victim will, if they have a Kevlar vest on.

COncession Accepted, for about the seventh time.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Yes is does mean something. It means everything.

It means you are a retarded fucktard troll whom I am flaming for postcount, so bring on your worthless masturbations asshole, let's see how fast those amsturbations get destroyed.

Your protecting yourself from a boogeyman.

Who is armed with a gun that could end my life which the vest prevents from doing its job.

Hey, that's an excellent analogy. Up to 2 decimal places the boogeyman has the same chance of killing you as a gun does. Will that help?

Help your argument? No.
Help your worthless sorry self realize that the ropad to your enlightenment is through suicide? No.
Help my argument? No.

I don't need your bullshit for me to know that a bulletproof vest will save my life, therefore if I want to save my life, I will buy one. For that matter, SD.NEt doesn't need your bullshit. The REAL Strowbridge doesn't need your bullshit. The WORLD doesn't need your bullshit. So fuck of and die, you fucking fucker.