What's your opinion on Kevlar?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

And your argument is based on ignoring the statistics, and some warped view that getting shot is a remote possibility.

Statistics are NOTHING when not put into context. YOU are nothing put anywhere. In areas where getting shot is a real possibility vests are important to your health.

Sure it's possible you'll be part of the 0.00367% And it's possible I could win the lotto tomorrow. Does that mean I should quit my job today?

No you should go to Iraq and start shouting "Saddam is a horsefucker" so they will kill you and save us the trouble.

And my numbers would have to be off my a factor of 1000 before your arguement would have to be taken seriously.

Your numbers are not being taken seriously. Your argument is not being taken seriously. Your claim that you are INDEED Strowbridge is not being taken seriously.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%
Percent of guns stolen: 3.896%

Non-issue, FUCKFACE! If the guns are stolen and they can be used aginst you you are a moronic fucktard if you don't wear a vest if you value your life.

CSS, or whatever fucktard lives behind that name, maybe you like silencing guns with your anus. We, however, want to live.

You really think criminals will steal BPV less than they steal guns?

Really? Is that what you truly think?

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

It saves MY life. That makes it worth all the so-called trouble you say Kevlar owners will be courting.

And if it's stolen and used in a bank robbery that kills 10 people, well who cares, cause it had a 0.00367% chance of saving your worthless ass.

http://www.emergency.com/lapdbank.htm

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

It does matter if it helps ME.

How short-sighted of you.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

So what's your point? You don't care, but if someone else does why should they not be allowed to take action? Because they might be stolen? Cite some facts on vest thefts or shut up. While you're at it provide information on how many guns are stolen directly from people's hands and then used against them. So far all your presented is a total number of guns stolen.

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%

As opposed to how many gun deaths? 300 something, right? ANd how many shootings? out of 300,000 some odd people. THis is nation wide. Now take it to a lower level, and divide the neighborhood into the richer and poorer areas. In the former, the chances are almost nil. In the latter, the odds skyrocket. Open your eyes, fucknut.

Oh yeah, cause we all know it will be the poor people who buy BPV.

If the odds that it will help you are tiny, and the odds that it will help the criminals is much, much greater, then it's a bad idea.

blahblahblah......HOW does it help the criminal? Odds have nothing to do with helping or harming a criominal! Nice leap in logic, fucknut.

If they steal the BPV it will help the criminal. Just like when the criminals steal 3.896% of the guns bought per year.

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

No, it doesn't. Because ultimately, it doesn't. Again, great leap in logic. FUCK. NUT.

Wow. You've lost total grip on reality.

[haas mark]

Oh god, can you not read? Is your gun in the way?

Odds of being shot: 0.00367%
Percent of guns stolen: 3.896%

Non-issue, FUCKFACE! If the guns are stolen and they can be used aginst you you are a moronic fucktard if you don't wear a vest if you value your life.

CSS, or whatever fucktard lives behind that name, maybe you like silencing guns with your anus. We, however, want to live.

You really think criminals will steal BPV less than they steal guns?

Really? Is that what you truly think?

Yes. And you have yet to show otherwise. Unfalsfiably.

It doesn't matter if it helps the criminal in that criminal encounter, or the next one, or the one after that.

It does matter if it helps ME.

How short-sighted of you.

And everyone else won't be thinking this way? Criminals don't think this way when they steal the gun, or shoot it for that matter? They won't be thinking that whent hey supposedly steal the Kevlar vests?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Cost of Kevlar Vest: $500

Odd of it being used: 0.00367%
Odd of it being stolen: Much higher.

Do the math.

[haas mark]

Oh yeah, cause we all know it will be the poor people who buy BPV.

Where did I say that?

If they steal the BPV it will help the criminal. Just like when the criminals steal 3.896% of the guns bought per year.

Numbers mean nothing if you have no concrete evidence that they will steal them, or that they have stolen them on a wide scale in the past.

Wow. You've lost total grip on reality.

I've lost grip on reality? I'VE lost grip on reality. Wow. Leaps and bounds by our resident whacko.

[haas mark]

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Cost of Kevlar Vest: $500

Odd of it being used: 0.00367%

Odd of it being shot at: 0.00367%

Odd if it being used: Much higher. People are more concerned for their safety than you think.

Odd of it being stolen: Much higher.

Do the math.

When you come up with a valid number for this supposed statistic, then we can. But you can't can you?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

You really think criminals will steal BPV less than they steal guns?

Of course. As a crim I'd rather steal a gun to help me rob others, not steal a BPV that gives me no advantage whatsoever in a hold-up.

Really? Is that what you truly think?

Yes, that is what I think. You should think too and maybe you'll escape your lifestyle of being an anal rape slave to a pack of wild dogs.

And if it's stolen and used in a bank robbery that kills 10 people, well who cares, cause it had a 0.00367% chance of saving your worthless ass.

Great way to answer the question, wannabe, throw up a completely unrelated answer and hope it obfuscates the issue. Oh no, the main purpose of BPVs is not to protect yourself, it's to armor the fools who rob banks.

http://www.emergency.com/lapdbank.htm

This link is bullshit. Thank you for taking a completely atypical case and holding it up as some kind of norm, horse fucker.

How short-sighted of you.

I care about myself. You may be altruistic (or shall I say idiotic) enough to go without so crims can be shot more easily. I, however, prefer to live.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

How is it not useful? Third time I'm asking you...

Oh god, your dumb. It's not useful, cause you not being shot.

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

In context of the nation. You do realize that within certain types of neighborhoods, this is drastically different, right? (FOURTH time I bring this up, let's see if you avoid it again...)

Look at the number. LOOK AT THE FUCKING NUMBER!

Name me one neightbourhood where that number comes close to even 1%

NAME ONE!

SEVENTH time to say this: Cite evidence that the trend will remain the same. All it does is slow down the criminal.

Really? Then all that talk before about Kevlar being usuable under t-shirts, etc. was a lie? Say it ain't so.

Either the BPV is unnoticable enough for the average Joe to wear it, or it's not going to be an issue.

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do.

Having them stolen != putting them in the hands of the criminals Do you read what you write before you post it!? My god, you are coming off incredibly stupid this morning!!

Who do you think steals them? Criminals. Stealing an gun is a crime. If you steal a gun, you are a criminal. Owning a stolen gun is a crime. If you own a stolen gun you are a criminal.

Why steal / buy a stolen gun? Cause you can't get one legally. Why can't you get one legally? Gee, I wonder why that is ...

That's right. I believe we said Concession Accepted about a page back or so...

Yeah, bury you head in the sand. Think that guns are used more to kill people then they are stolen.


[qupte]I think the right to want to urvive outweighs the possiblity of death by far.[/quote]

0.00367%. Something you can't deny. You've tried to claim it's much higher where you live, but have not given the evidence to back that up.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Benefits are never negligible.

0.00367% = Negligable.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

BUT, the most common situation is ... the gun is stolen from your home while you are not there.

And this troubles me how?

A criminal now has your gun! Don't you get that? Someone could be using your gun to rob / kill / etc. someone. A gun you never needed for self-defense cause of that magic number I've given a hundred times.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Cost of Kevlar Vest: $500

Odd of it being used: 0.00367%
Odd of it being stolen: Much higher.

Do the math.[/quote]

As always, you stick to your tired points that vests will be stolen without even bothering to identify any prevailing trends that would validate said points

Math: Strowbridge-wannabe + retarded argument + ESB = Big postcount for ESB + Big postcount for verilon + humiliation for CSS-wannabe.

Now fuck off.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

A criminal now has your gun! Don't you get that? Someone could be using your gun to rob / kill / etc. someone. A gun you never needed for self-defense cause of that magic number I've given a hundred times.

And with my BPV I do not die but instead go on to live.
And if you're so fixated with that magic number why don;t you get a fucking room?
Is your statement even a cogent reply or is it a frantic scrabbling for something to throw in the face of Death to stave him off?
Belay that, is that statement even RELEVANT? Does it in any way justify the need to eliminate BPVs? No! Of course not.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Yeah, well I'll trust the statistics, the cops, etc. over your Soldier of Fortune spankfest fantasies.

I don't consider death a fantasy. I would much rather live my miserable life. Otherwise I would have committed suicide long ago. Easiest way with a gun.

You'll live without the BPV, cause you only have a 0.00367% chance of getting killed in the first place. Don't you get it? You're safe. You don't need a BPV.

In a country of 300,000,000 only 15,000 are murdered with guns every year. That's less than 1% of 1%.

You live in a safe country. Why are you so scare to admit your safe?

[haas mark]

How is it not useful? Third time I'm asking you...

Oh god, your dumb. It's not useful, cause you not being shot.

How is it not useful if you ARE being shot? YOu are saying that it is not useful. Period.

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

In context of the nation. You do realize that within certain types of neighborhoods, this is drastically different, right? (FOURTH time I bring this up, let's see if you avoid it again...)

Look at the number. LOOK AT THE FUCKING NUMBER!

Yup. Its a number.

Name me one neightbourhood where that number comes close to even 1%

NAME ONE!

Any neighborhood that is ridden with gangs and underage minority males. (Thanks, Mr. Bierbaum!) Also, do you realize that my city has had COPS specials THREE TIMES?

SEVENTH time to say this: Cite evidence that the trend will remain the same. All it does is slow down the criminal.

Really? Then all that talk before about Kevlar being usuable under t-shirts, etc. was a lie? Say it ain't so.

I didn't say it wasn't useable. (A) It wieghs down. (B) It's a hassle to get under the shirt. (C) They'r enot goingto think that far ahead.

Either the BPV is unnoticable enough for the average Joe to wear it, or it's not going to be an issue.

But the Average Joe isn't goingto wear it is he? Backfired a bit on you there.

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do.

Having them stolen != putting them in the hands of the criminals Do you read what you write before you post it!? My god, you are coming off incredibly stupid this morning!!

Who do you think steals them? Criminals. Stealing an gun is a crime. If you steal a gun, you are a criminal. Owning a stolen gun is a crime. If you own a stolen gun you are a criminal.

No, really? But you fail do answer the question (again). How does buying a Kevlar vest = putting it ionto the hands of a criminal (my statement was worded badly).

Why steal / buy a stolen gun? Cause you can't get one legally. Why can't you get one legally? Gee, I wonder why that is ...

Because it's not legal. And you can. I believe we have this thing called a 'Black Market.'

That's right. I believe we said Concession Accepted about a page back or so...

Yeah, bury you head in the sand. Think that guns are used more to kill people then they are stolen.

This arguement was about six pages back. And oyu tell me about burying MY head in the sand...GET WITH THE TIMES, BUCKO!

I think the right to want to survive outweighs the possiblity of death by far.

0.00367%. Something you can't deny. You've tried to claim it's much higher where you live, but have not given the evidence to back that up.

You've tried to claim it = 0.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Benefits are never negligible.

0.00367% = Negligable.

Negligible = 0. 0.00367 != 0. 0.00367 != Negligible. Math is so simple.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

"I racked the slide and he ran off."

Something like 95% of cases of guns being drawn in self-defense in America do not result in any shots being fired or further assaulted on the armed person. Criminals are doing it because they want an easy ride, if a person pulls a gun its much easier to run off then to fight it out or tempt fate and hope they wont shoot. So thats what they do.

And that's a good example of a gun being used in self defense. But if the bad guy decides to shoot first and loot the corpse, which is his perogative (he is the bad guy, after all) then you have a whole new situation.

Wow, sounds like a bulluet proof vest would be a GREAT IDEA in a case like that. The same thing you've spent eight pages attacking.

Wow, and that happens like, never. You sure put me in my place.

0.00367%, come up with a way to challege that number or you lose.

[haas mark]

Yeah, well I'll trust the statistics, the cops, etc. over your Soldier of Fortune spankfest fantasies.

I don't consider death a fantasy. I would much rather live my miserable life. Otherwise I would have committed suicide long ago. Easiest way with a gun.

You'll live without the BPV, cause you only have a 0.00367% chance of getting killed in the first place. Don't you get it? You're safe. You don't need a BPV.

So if I get a fatal bullet wound, I'll live if the BPV wasn't there to protect me? Not bloody likely.

In a country of 300,000,000 only 15,000 are murdered with guns every year. That's less than 1% of 1%.

In the country. The nation. The total. When you break it down into states, counties, cities, subcities, everything changes. Or are you too blind to see that?

You live in a safe country. Why are you so scare to admit your safe?

Because I'm not. Where I live is one of the most rampant parts of the city. Rape happens where I live more than anywhere else in the city. Gunshot eaths happen wher I live more than anywhere in the city. Both happen more in my city than anywhere in the state. Both happen in my state more than anywhere in the nation. Tell me again, I am safe. Fucktard.

[His Divine Shadow]

Well, I have a solution for everyone, buy some stormtrooper armor

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

0.00367%, come up with a way to challege that number or you lose.

There is no point in my responding to that challenge after seeing your masturbations laid out over thirteen pages that could have contained useful content.


Retro me, Satanas.

[haas mark]

And that's a good example of a gun being used in self defense. But if the bad guy decides to shoot first and loot the corpse, which is his perogative (he is the bad guy, after all) then you have a whole new situation.

Wow, sounds like a bulluet proof vest would be a GREAT IDEA in a case like that. The same thing you've spent eight pages attacking.

Wow, and that happens like, never. You sure put me in my place.

0.00367%, come up with a way to challege that number or you lose.

Who are you to say it never happens? And that number means nothing to us, unless you can provide evidence that BPVs will in fact NOT reduce it.

[haas mark]

BUT, the most common situation is ... the gun is stolen from your home while you are not there.

And this troubles me how?

A criminal now has your gun! Don't you get that? Someone could be using your gun to rob / kill / etc. someone. A gun you never needed for self-defense cause of that magic number I've given a hundred times.

A number that means nothing because you can't prove that BPVs won't decrease it.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Get killed asshole.

That's the odd that a kevlar vest might be useful.

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

YOU get killed. I survive a shooting while you become another festering pile of corruption upon the streets.

No, I don't get killed cause I don't get shot at. And neither do you. And niether does the other 99.99633% of the population.

Yeah, and eash Kevlar vest that's stolen from a person who would NEVER have used it is one more in the hands of the criminals.

And the average citizen can't protect his property from theft.

Appearently not, cause 300,000 guns are stolen every year.

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do. Who, in turn, scare the morons who bought the guns to buy more guns, which are also stolen.

And the circle of stupidity is complete.

Yes, the idiot who posted his trash on SD.net, impersonating someone of worth has returned for another owning.

Will you PLEASE walk into traffic, you motherfucking cocksucking shitfaced cockmonkey?

Wow, that was a complete waste of a reply. What part are you denying? The fact that guns are stolen, or the fact that robberies encourage people to buy guns?

It's called cost analysis. Look into it.

Look into a pile of your shit? No fucking way. Not while you're eating. Not ever, actually.

And besides,

Wooo, another wasted reply. Nothing but an ad hominem here.

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

TRANSLATION: Mommy Mommy wahhhhhh the big boys are making fun of my needle dick waaaaahhhh

MAy your worthless ass be fucked by a sharpened log .

Nope, you got that wrong. The real translation is:

Here's the numbers. BPV won't save many live, and will (most likely) get stolen in numbers far greater than they're worth. I've given it before, I'll have to give it again.

It's a simple matter of cost effectiveness.

It's simple all right. If you died the world would be a better place.

Do you get paid by the ad hominem?

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Saves my life = good idea.

Doesn't save your live cause your never shot = Waste of money.
Better odds of if getting stolen than saving your life = Bad idea.

[haas mark]

Get killed asshole.

That's the odd that a kevlar vest might be useful.

0.00367% is close enough to 0% that it's meaningless. It's a less than a rounding error.

YOU get killed. I survive a shooting while you become another festering pile of corruption upon the streets.

No, I don't get killed cause I don't get shot at. And neither do you. And niether does the other 99.99633% of the population.

How do you know that you won't get shot at?

Yeah, and eash Kevlar vest that's stolen from a person who would NEVER have used it is one more in the hands of the criminals.

And the average citizen can't protect his property from theft.

Appearently not, cause 300,000 guns are stolen every year.

Pointless, becasue you don't know that 300,000 BPVs are going to get stolen. Every. Year.

They are. They're stolen from people who will never use them and put in the hands of the criminals who do. Who, in turn, scare the morons who bought the guns to buy more guns, which are also stolen.

And the circle of stupidity is complete.

Yes, the idiot who posted his trash on SD.net, impersonating someone of worth has returned for another owning.

Will you PLEASE walk into traffic, you motherfucking cocksucking shitfaced cockmonkey?

Wow, that was a complete waste of a reply. What part are you denying? The fact that guns are stolen, or the fact that robberies encourage people to buy guns?

Or are you denying the fact that you should walk onto I40 in the middle of noon day traffic?

It's called cost analysis. Look into it.

Look into a pile of your shit? No fucking way. Not while you're eating. Not ever, actually.

And besides,

Wooo, another wasted reply. Nothing but an ad hominem here.

You a fucking idiot. You all are.

TRANSLATION: Mommy Mommy wahhhhhh the big boys are making fun of my needle dick waaaaahhhh

MAy your worthless ass be fucked by a sharpened log .

Nope, you got that wrong. The real translation is:

Here's the numbers. BPV won't save many live, and will (most likely) get stolen in numbers far greater than they're worth. I've given it before, I'll have to give it again.

Where are the numbers that show me how often BPVs will be stolen? Where are the articles that give you those umbers? They don't exist. Therefore, your arguement is flawed. If you can't come up with a valid base for your arguement, no point in arguing.

Negliable benefit + Huge cost = Bad idea.

Saves my life = good idea.

Doesn't save your live cause your never shot = Waste of money.
Better odds of if getting stolen than saving your life = Bad idea.

Doesn't save your life IF you don't get shot. DOES save your life if you DO get shot at. GOOD idea. Odds of it getting stolen = nonexistant.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

No, I don't get killed cause I don't get shot at. And neither do you. And niether does the other 99.99633% of the population.

The population that lives in your own imaginary world. Kindly refrain from mentioning your worthless self and me in the same sentence or I will have to do something that will get me reported to the SPCA>

Wow, that was a complete waste of a reply.

Wow, your reply is remarkably self-descriptive.

What part are you denying? The fact that guns are stolen, or the fact that robberies encourage people to buy guns?

I deny neither of these two.

I am denying your ridiculous assertion that guns WILL be stolen, that they WILL be used against innocents, that bulletproof vests cause more harm to the wearer than without.

Nope, you got that wrong. The real translation is:

Strowbridge wannabe is a lying sack of economist shit.

Here's the numbers.

What numbers? I don't see any numbers, just your bullshit.

BPV won't save many live,

They'll save enough lives - the ones of those that wear them.

and will (most likely) get stolen in numbers far greater than they're worth. I've given it before, I'll have to give it again.

More bullshit. Bring it.

Do you get paid by the ad hominem?

No, I do that free of charge.

Doesn't save your live cause your never shot = Waste of money

When I DO get shot BPV = good idea.

Better odds of if getting stolen than saving your life = Bad idea.

Odds of it being stolen = Odds of you learning from this "debate"
= miniscule (round to nil)

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I don't have those figures, cause BPV are not common enough to be targets. However, if they are common they'd be stolen at the same rate as guns. That's half my argument.

Well, the other half being the proof that the trend would stay the same. Concession Accepted. You can't provide evidence, you have no arguement.

You're telling me theives wouldn't steal BPV? Is that your whole arguement? I think it is. Well, that and the Fallacy of the Vivid Example that is, 'But it's my life!'

Also, are you telling me a BPV will be harder to steal than, say, a VCR? If they can steal a VCR they can steal a BPV.

And how many of those guns were stolen, friend?

.... Uhhhh .... I'm not sure how to answer this.

300,000 guns are stolen anually.

Wrong answer. How many gun deaths were caused by stolen guns? Could I be any clearer?[/quote]

Yes. A lot clearer. As for the answer, we'll never know. Many times a murder weapon is never recovered. Add in unsolved murders, and the number get's decidedly foggy. How about, you make your claim and see if you can back it up. Cause I've never made a claim about the number of stolen guns used in murders.

Disastercenter.com:

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

In fact, when was the last time you heard of a child dying in the crossfire?

Last time there was a drive-by, more than likely. We don't hear about them here because they happen too often. Maybe they don't happen where you are, but some of us live in the suburbs. Snob.

Really? So kid is shot and killed and it doesn't make the news? Where do you live? The West Bank?

Fucking New Mexico, asshole. They don't make reports when it happen so often.

http://www.stateline.org/state_header_f ... stateId=NM

834.5 Violent Crimes per 100,000 population per year. Higher than average.

Still, if those were ALL murders it's still less than the number of guns stolen per gun population per year.

This is where I call you a liar.

Liar.

Ass. When you come live where I do, or in the projects of Chicago, or NYC, or LA, and tell me that the murders are reported, I have more right to call you a liar than you have to call me one.

Child killed in a drive by! That's what you said, not just murder.

I think Mozilla just locked up. This might not make it.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Odd of being shot: 0.00367%

This means what? Does a BPV do good or not? YES OR NO. The answer to this question will not come in numbers.

If you're not shot, then it does no good. If you're shot in the head, then it does not good. If you're shot with something higher calibre than it can handle, then it does no good. If you're shot, knocked over and then killed by an alternate means, it does no good. If it's stolen before you're shot, then it does no good.

Before you respond I can guess what you'll say and get right to my response.

You = You never answered my question.

Me = It's a loaded question, and is meaningless in this debate. It's simple yet another attempt to bring in the Fallacy of the Vivid Example you are so in love with, I.E., 'But it's my life.'