Help With Fundie Brother

[JLTucker]

Edit: Him not being a blood relative is a stupid excuse for not liking him. I will clarify: he is a racist homophobe. He said to me when I went to Mississippi last month that he would never shop at Abercrombie because the posters being advertised are "too gay" for him. They are just posters! I told him about eHarmony being sued because it did not offer services to gay people and he laughed at the idea that gays should be allowed to use the service. He also drops the N bomb every now and then. Those are my reasons for not liking him. Oh, and the fact that he will not respect my views is also another reason.

Standard fundie reply -

"But Thor is not real whereas God is, so they cannot be compared."

I too was thinking that would be his response if I asked him why he does not believe in Thor or any other god for that matter.

[Hillary]

he is a racist homophobe. He said to me when I went to Mississippi last month that he would never shop at Abercrombie because the posters being advertised are "too gay" for him. They are just posters! I told him about eHarmony being sued because it did not offer services to gay people and he laughed at the idea that gays should be allowed to use the service. He also drops the N bomb every now and then. Those are my reasons for not liking him. Oh, and the fact that he will not respect my views is also another reason.

Sounds like a lovely chap

If there were a God, people like him wouldn't exist.

[Feil]

Well, if you don't like him, we can always treat him as target practice

[chitoryu12]

Judging from what you just told about him, I think he's a totally lost cause. You may as well try to explain yourself to a monk. It'll be about as successful. As soon as he starts the religion-based bigotry toward other people based on their skin color or sexual preference, there's no point in even talking to him.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Judging from what you just told about him, I think he's a totally lost cause. You may as well try to explain yourself to a monk. It'll be about as successful. As soon as he starts the religion-based bigotry toward other people based on their skin color or sexual preference, there's no point in even talking to him.

Hey now.

Monks usually aren't racist.

[chitoryu12]

I know, but it's still pretty much impossible to make them understand your way of thinking.

[Surlethe]

I know, but it's still pretty much impossible to make them understand your way of thinking.

It's possible if you're willing to take the time to gently teach and encourage them, and if they're willing to listen. Taking time to build a relationship generally gives you their ears, but you have to be kind and considerate while opening their eyes to your point of view.

[chitoryu12]

I always assumed that someone who is so into religion would have some trouble understanding another's point of view. I have not met many monks, however. The one I have met, I only saw speak at a church. He had quite a sense of humor compared to other religious members I have met.

[Surlethe]

I always assumed that someone who is so into religion would have some trouble understanding another's point of view.

This is why I say building a relationship is essential: if you intend to deconvert a fundie, you need to first and foremost be his friend so that he's willing to go to the trouble of understanding your point of view.

I have not met many monks, however. The one I have met, I only saw speak at a church. He had quite a sense of humor compared to other religious members I have met.

I don't see why monks wouldn't be, humor-wise, about as diverse as you'd any group to be, although they might be a bit less willing to laugh at sexual humor.

[chitoryu12]

I tried making friends with a fundie. The two of us were actually good friends for several months and we exchanged advice, but she lost all respect for me when I told her that I believed in evolution.

[Dooey Jo]

I always assumed that someone who is so into religion would have some trouble understanding another's point of view.

This is why I say building a relationship is essential: if you intend to deconvert a fundie, you need to first and foremost be his friend so that he's willing to go to the trouble of understanding your point of view.

That would only work if they were already reasonable. If they have conditioned themselves that all other views are wrong and that even thinking about those views is satanic, about the only thing that might work is therapy. Trying to be a friend just so you can deconvert them is going to result in hearing lots of "Satan has deceived you" and "I'll pray for you", church-going, "I'll ask my priest about it" and subsequent amnesia about anything you might have said, and ultimately it's likely to amount to nothing.

[Darth Wong]

I know, but it's still pretty much impossible to make them understand your way of thinking.

It's possible if you're willing to take the time to gently teach and encourage them, and if they're willing to listen. Taking time to build a relationship generally gives you their ears, but you have to be kind and considerate while opening their eyes to your point of view.

Monks isolate themselves in monasteries precisely because they do not want to hear most of what the outside world has to say. The "peace" they seek in a monastery is primarily defined as the elimination of most of the outside world.

[Rye]

Wait wait, when did C.S. Lewis proclaim himself an atheist?

And furthermore, why is it relevant?

According to this website, C.S. Lewis lost his faith in 1913. And it's relevant because to Shannon, it's "evidence" that God can restore faith to anyone if they let him.

CS Lewis was mad at God and thought that was atheism, consequentially, his apologetics when he finally returned to religion is incredibly poor to any modern atheist, but nonetheless highly regarded by the religious.

As for this brother, I would tell him to go persecute some gays like his zombie jew god demands. Since this guy is a racist, reminding him he's worshipping a jew incessantly will probably bother him.

[JLTucker]

I made a blog post on my page detailing why I do not believe in God. He responded. And of course he ignored all of the points I made.

First and foremost I would like to ask you a question. Are you an honest atheist or a dishonest atheist? The difference you may ask? An honest atheist is one who after studying "science" and the world, makes an intellectual decision that there is no God. This person says they "know" there is no God. A dishonest atheist is one who would say they don't think there is a God, but they really don't know for sure. This person would be called an agnostic. There are two types of agnostics: an honest one and a dishonest one. An honest agnostic would say they don't know for sure if there is a God or not, but would like to know. A dishonest agnostic would say they don't want to know if there is a God or not. They don't want God or anything to do with Him, because of rebellion in their heart. So tell me which one are you?
There are three ways in which God reveals Himself to man. The first is creation. All you have to do is take a look around at creation and you would see that there is a God. Look at the heavens. See the stars and planets. There are so many. Billions upon billions of them. The sailors of sea use them to navigate, because of systematic way in which they are laid out. That didn't happen by chance. The Earth is so many millions of miles from the sun, tillted at just the right degree. If we were any closer to the sun, we would burn. If we were any farther away, we would freeze. The rotation is at just the right speed. Any faster we would fly into oblivion. The sun's gravity and the Earth's speed is just right to keep us going at the same rate around the sun without Earth bumping into Mars or something. the order of the heavens is not an accident. Look at the moon and the tides of the ocean. If it weren't for that, the oceans would flood the earth. That's not an accident either. Take a look at the human body and you will see the Creator's handy work. How is it that that heart creates enough electricity to kill you, but doesn't? How is it that the stomach creates acid potent enough to eat through many surfaces, but doesn't eat through you? Take the complexity of DNA that identifies everything about a person and tell me that is an accident. You can read how God created all these things and put them in order, back in Genesis. It takes more faith to believe that a big bang, that came from no where, made green soup that turned into single cell organisms that evolved over a course of billions of years into monkeys, that turned into humans, than it takes to believe that God created everything. Scripture tells us about this in Romans 1:19-25. If what I wrote you is not suffice, then look up Answers In Genesis on the internet. They will explain in alot more detail than I have.
The second way God reveals Himself is through revelation, His word the Bible. This is talked about in 2 Peter 1:19-21. The Bible is historically accurate. There are many prophecies which have come to pass just as they were prophesied in the Bible. History proves this. God has revealed Himself dispensationally and progressively through the Bible through history. You may try, but you can't deny it.
The third way God reveals Himself is through salvation, His Son, Jesus Christ. Secular history agrees that there was a man called Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazereth, was crucified in Jerusalem, and rose again on the third day. All this is historically correct. Which, by the way, was all prophesied in the Old Testament, and came true to the "T". Was all this an accident? I don't think so.
So, in conclusion, I ask again the question that I asked at the beginning. Which are you? You know that God says in Psalm 14:1, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." What this actually says in the Hebrew is,"There is no God 'for me' ". Jeffery, you can try to throw all your twisted views of scripture at me, but the fact remains that you problem is spiritual. You need to repent of your sins, turn to Jesus Christ, and let Him cleanse and wash and forgive you of all your sin. God loves you Jeffery, and so do I. All you have to do is look at the cross of Jesus Christ, and how He took mine and your punishment for your sin and the sins of the whole world upon Himself, so that you and I would get to be in Heaven with Him, not in hell with the devil and his angels. Then you can surely see that He loves you. I'm still praying for you.
In Christ,
your brother,
Shannon

He did not address any of the points I made in my blog that went into detail of how God is a blood lust and that there is no evidence of his existence. Those are my main reasons for not believing in God. He addressed none of them! And he had the balls to question whether or not I am an atheist when I have made it clear that I am.

I sent him a final reply saying "I am an atheist, you dumbshit. Stop this nonsense. I am blocking you. Leave me alone." This may have been harsh but I do not have the patience to deal with him any longer. I asked him nicely to not preach to me, yet he did once again.

The good thing out of all of this? A friend of mine read the blog and said that it gives her "another another reason to examine what I believe. "

[Hillary]

The saddest part is that he will have absolutely no idea why you have taken offence.

Incidentally -

he's hardly being a zealot about it

Do you still think this, Battlehymn Republic?

[salm]

If he´s a racist and homophobe i´d simple put his email adress on my spam list.

[CaptJodan]

Your brother is brain damaged. Those examples about the spin of the Earth and the tides of the moon being all that stands between us and a complete flood were pricelessly retarded. I understand your decision to cut off communication, but I probably would have toyed with those stupidities first.

[JLTucker]

I have decided to resume communication with him so I can tear his latest message to me apart.

[Big Phil]

I have decided to resume communication with him so I can tear his latest message to me apart.

Why are you bothering? He's got his head shoved so far up Jesus' ass he won't be able to hear a thing you're saying.

[Battlehymn Republic]

The saddest part is that he will have absolutely no idea why you have taken offence.

Incidentally -

he's hardly being a zealot about it

Do you still think this, Battlehymn Republic?

Eh, he may not be expressing a lot of sense, but at least he's using conciliatory language and isn't name-shouting yet. I skimmed the posts, but he didn't seem like a homophobe racist based on the messages shown here. The worst he's done is imply that JLTucker is an atheist because of some sort of trauma or pain.

[nickolay1]

Christ, what a dumbass.

There are three ways in which God reveals Himself to man. The first is creation. All you have to do is take a look around at creation and you would see that there is a God. Look at the heavens. See the stars and planets. There are so many. Billions upon billions of them.

Appeal to emotion/red herring.

The sailors of sea use them to navigate, because of systematic way in which they are laid out. That didn't happen by chance.

Affirming the consequent.

The Earth is so many millions of miles from the sun, tillted at just the right degree.

Red herring, the tilt is only responsible for seasons.

If we were any closer to the sun, we would burn. If we were any farther away, we would freeze.

Prove that a small increase or decrease in solar radiation due to a change in distance would have such enormous thermal effects. If that was the case since the origin of the Earth, and life still evolved on earth under such conditions, then the resulting lifeforms would be adapted to such a climate exactly as we are to ours.

The rotation is at just the right speed. Any faster we would fly into oblivion.

This is a lie. An increase in orbital velocity would result in an increased orbital radius, dumbass.

The sun's gravity and the Earth's speed is just right to keep us going at the same rate around the sun without Earth bumping into Mars or something. the order of the heavens is not an accident.

Red herring.

Look at the moon and the tides of the ocean. If it weren't for that, the oceans would flood the earth. That's not an accident either.

This is a lie. A simple explanation of how tides work is that some water from one side of the planet flows temporarily to another under the gravitational force of the Moon. Half the globe is not flooded constantly. Logically, the water level at an arbitrary point of the earth cannot be higher without the tidal force than with it. Thus, no flooding would take place in the absence of the moon's gravity.

How is it that that heart creates enough electricity to kill you, but doesn't?

Provide proof for this ridiculous claim, asshole.

How is it that the stomach creates acid potent enough to eat through many surfaces, but doesn't eat through you?

Ever hear of an ulcer?

Take the complexity of DNA that identifies everything about a person and tell me that is an accident. You can read how God created all these things and put them in order, back in Genesis.

Yeah, I especially like the explanation about the four DNA-bases. Fucking wanker.

It takes more faith to believe that a big bang, that came from no where,

Typical creationist moron lie. The big bang has nothing at all to do with evolution.

made green soup that turned into single cell organisms that evolved over a course of billions of years into monkeys, that turned into humans, than it takes to believe that God created everything.

Strawman. It's obvious that your understanding of evolution is about as solid as a wet paper napkin.

Scripture tells us about this in Romans 1:19-25. If what I wrote you is not suffice, then look up Answers In Genesis on the internet. They will explain in alot more detail than I have.

http://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/an ... nesis2.htm

His word the Bible. This is talked about in 2 Peter 1:19-21.

The Bible is correct because the Bible says the Bible is correct? Classic christian circular logic.

The Bible is historically accurate. There are many prophecies which have come to pass just as they were prophesied in the Bible. History proves this.

Provide proof for this, dipshit.

God has revealed Himself dispensationally and progressively through the Bible through history. You may try, but you can't deny it.

Again, prove this.

Secular history agrees that there was a man called Jesus, who was born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazereth, was crucified in Jerusalem, and rose again on the third day.

This is a lie and an appeal to authority. There isn't a shred of evidence that Jesus ever existed.

All this is historically correct. Which, by the way, was all prophesied in the Old Testament, and came true to the "T". Was all this an accident? I don't think so.

...Only for values of "T" equaling "my selective interpretation."

[Justforfun000]

I think you're being hasty too., He says he is willing to listen. I would say to him, "fine. You are convinved you are correct, no? So you are willing to really LISTEN to every point I make to you? If I spell out exact questions and challenges to you, will you rebut them back or admit that you cannot? If you will address each and every point I bring up, I'll do the same back to you and eventually we can see if we can meet in the middle, but you have to promise me to be intellectually honest with me and admit logic and illogic when you see it."

That way you can lay out all the parameters, and if he bites, well you've got him by the balls. He HAS to play it out the way you said and if he goes off again you can say, "ok, ignore everything you posted and let me remind you you have to address this and this first...once that's done we can go back to your other tangent"

I think this would be fun. We'd be here to help you frame perfect answers.

[chitoryu12]

If he was willing to listen, he would have actually tried to talk to his brother rather then preach to him. Haven't you already asked him to address your points Tucker?

[Darth Wong]

He says he is prepared to listen. The automated lady on the voice-mail system also says that my call is very important to her. I imagine both of them to have roughly the same sincerity.

[Patrick Degan]

The Fundie is "prepared to listen" in the manner that he'll bear your error and blashemies just before preaching to you just where you are wrong, wrong, wrong.