Most powerful god from religion...

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-09-04 03:21am

I have to say it...

ALL HAIL XENU!

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-09-04 03:27am

The things that the Christian God has actually done, and can take personal credit for in an 'observed' capacity are slim. The Bible is written from the perspective of people who believed that there were indeed other spirital forces out there, so while God may have claimed to have created man, the Dagon shrine nextdoor also claimed to have created man. The matter of who made what is a fairly nebulous one, and the only things written as if they actually happened were things like partings of small ponds (the reed sea, not the red sea. Translation error!) turning water into red, bitter water (not a fan of wine myself) and the occasional genocide of infants.

So we know he can kill babies and do shit with water. He also hates iron. A this current level he seems kinda like a creepy pedophile version of Aquaman, which is hardly all that impressive. Revelations is also not verifiable, because it simply hasn't happened by that point. We also wouldn't claim that Darth Vader is capable of destroying something larger than a planet with his mind, merely because he said the force was stronger. The comparisons of force, or the saying that such a force exists, doesn't really count. Otherwise any god who lies as often also counts.

Twoyboy · Post by **Twoyboy** » 2007-09-04 05:19am

Covenant wrote:So we know he can kill babies and do shit with water. He also hates iron. A this current level he seems kinda like a creepy pedophile version of Aquaman, which is hardly all that impressive.

He killed babies, he didn't sleep with them. Paedocidal would have been a better descriptor.

Sorry, just found that idea amusing so I had to point it out.

Covenant wrote:Revelations is also not verifiable, because it simply hasn't happened by that point. We also wouldn't claim that Darth Vader is capable of destroying something larger than a planet with his mind, merely because he said the force was stronger. The comparisons of force, or the saying that such a force exists, doesn't really count. Otherwise any god who lies as often also counts.

Agreed. And without Revelations and the claims of power in Genesis (which seem contradicted by the stories further on), Yahweh is shit as far as gods go. He contends with the free will of men and a fallen angel and still can't win! At least the Greek and Roman gods actually had to contend with other gods.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2007-09-04 07:26am

Actually, the God of Abraham was not originally a monothesic diety. He did, for example, have a wife.

The ancient jews drops that so there god seemed better then the other pantheons.

So yeah, he's not all that powerful to begin with.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2007-09-04 03:30pm

Plekhanov wrote:Everything described in revelations for a start which is after all a prophecy of what Yahweh claims he can and will do not what he has done, also I expect the hindu pantheons ability to 'destroy the entire universe' unless of course they've apparently already done so and then created another one or something.

Yes that's actually exactly what they've done.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 04:01pm

So what can beat destroying the universe & creating another one? The ability to travel in time & destroy the universe perhaps, can any gods do that?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-04 04:29pm

Plekhanov wrote:So what can beat destroying the universe & creating another one? The ability to travel in time & destroy the universe perhaps, can any gods do that?

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not aware of any gods with the ability to time travel.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 05:17pm

I wasn't aware that any had apparently destroyed a universe & then made another one, were you?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-04 05:26pm

Plekhanov wrote:I wasn't aware that any had apparently destroyed a universe & then made another one, were you?

There's creation myths that say the world was formed by the death of a rival god, or otherwise coming into creation as a result of something else's destruction, so it's hardly inconceivable. Time travel on the other hand, tad bit more inconsistent with your usual mythology.

You have gods that are incarnates of time itself, but there's no indication they have either the ability or the need to time travel. Though really, given how often time travel is shot down in vs debates for being a pathetic copout, you shouldn't have to ask whether or not it's a good indication of power.

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2007-09-04 06:29pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.

Exactly what was his name again?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 07:10pm

General Zod wrote:There's creation myths that say the world was formed by the death of a rival god, or otherwise coming into creation as a result of something else's destruction, so it's hardly inconceivable. Time travel on the other hand, tad bit more inconsistent with your usual mythology.

Assuming wikipedia is accurate time travel is a relatively recent concept (C18 onwards) so any gods with it will have been made up pretty recently.

You have gods that are incarnates of time itself, but there's no indication they have either the ability or the need to time travel. Though really, given how often time travel is shot down in vs debates for being a pathetic copout, you shouldn't have to ask whether or not it's a good indication of power.

I'm aware of the rule and why it's there I was just idly speculating as to what could be more powerful than what the Duchess of Zeon described.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 07:14pm

Aren't there some gods which gave birth to the universe, thus implying that they are much more vast than the universe itself?

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 07:24pm

Darth Wong wrote:Aren't there some gods which gave birth to the universe, thus implying that they are much more vast than the universe itself?

I vaguely recall an Egyptian creation myth in which one of their gods created the universe simply by ejaculating (though it is quite possible i've got that memory badly mangled) which I suppose is even more impressive than giving birth to it.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-09-04 07:33pm

chitoryu12 wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.
Exactly what was his name again?

Dude, a 'pantheon' is a GROUP of gods.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2007-09-04 07:57pm

Twoyboy wrote:He killed babies, he didn't sleep with them. Paedocidal would have been a better descriptor.

How old was Mary when she got knocked up? And even if she was past the age of consent by human standards there's still the matter of God being thousands of years old by that time.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-04 08:01pm

Plekhanov wrote: I'm aware of the rule and why it's there I was just idly speculating as to what could be more powerful than what the Duchess of Zeon described.

The problem with your line of thought is if you're suggesting time travel is somehow more powerful than the ability to destroy the universe, Bill & Ted must be fucking invincible.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 08:24pm

General Zod wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: I'm aware of the rule and why it's there I was just idly speculating as to what could be more powerful than what the Duchess of Zeon described.
The problem with your line of thought is if you're suggesting time travel is somehow more powerful than the ability to destroy the universe, Bill & Ted must be fucking invincible.

I said no such thing, do you not understand the meaning of the ampersand or something?

Plekhanov wrote:The ability to travel in time & destroy the universe perhaps, can any gods do that?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-04 08:37pm

Plekhanov wrote:
General Zod wrote:
Plekhanov wrote: I'm aware of the rule and why it's there I was just idly speculating as to what could be more powerful than what the Duchess of Zeon described.
The problem with your line of thought is if you're suggesting time travel is somehow more powerful than the ability to destroy the universe, Bill & Ted must be fucking invincible.
I said no such thing, do you not understand the meaning of the ampersand or something?
Plekhanov wrote:The ability to travel in time & destroy the universe perhaps, can any gods do that?

Why the fuck are they mutually inclusive? You're just adding one ability on top of another, when we already have gods capable of destroying the universe. Tossing in time travel for the hell of it isn't automatically going to make them uber or anything.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 08:57pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:
Twoyboy wrote:He killed babies, he didn't sleep with them. Paedocidal would have been a better descriptor.
How old was Mary when she got knocked up? And even if she was past the age of consent by human standards there's still the matter of God being thousands of years old by that time.

The bible doesn't make things clear (when does it?) but iirc the general consensus is early teens, it's certainly much harder to pin paedophilia on Yahweh than it is Mohamed anyway.

General Zod wrote:Why the fuck are they mutually inclusive? You're just adding one ability on top of another, when we already have gods capable of destroying the universe. Tossing in time travel for the hell of it isn't automatically going to make them uber or anything.

Sorry are you denying that a being that could destroy and create universes and travel in time would be more powerful than a being that could destroy & create universes but not travel in time or something? If not then what exactly is your point?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-04 09:02pm

Plekhanov wrote: Sorry are you denying that a being that could destroy and create universes and travel in time would be more powerful than a being that could destroy & create universes but not travel in time or something? If not then what exactly is your point?

My point is you're fucking retarded. You're speculating on something that's not even relevant to the OP and haven't bothered so much as hinting at any deity capable of time travel. If a deity is really powerful enough that they can destroy the universe either on their own or with a little help, then time travel isn't going to change a whole fuck of a lot for someone trying to act against them. Especially for deities that have been that powerful since their very beginning.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 09:13pm

General Zod wrote:My point is you're fucking retarded. You're speculating on something that's not even relevant to the OP and haven't bothered so much as hinting at any deity capable of time travel. If a deity is really powerful enough that they can destroy the universe either on their own or with a little help, then time travel isn't going to change a whole fuck of a lot for someone trying to act against them. Especially for deities that have been that powerful since their very beginning.

Of course I’m speculating, I explicitly said I was a few posts back, the Duchess of Zeon mentioned a pantheon with what seemed to be at the upper limit so far as the ability to create & destroy things can go, so I was ‘idly pondering’ what could surpass that. How you think that’s off topic for a thread entitled ‘Most powerful god from religion...’ or why you’re getting so worked up about this is beyond me.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 09:27pm

Of course, it should be noted that in the actual context of the writings (since we are talking about writings rather than movies, hence it's all about interpretation of language), the common phrase "the heavens and the earth" does not necessarily refer to the entire universe. The fact is that the writers had no idea the universe was that large, so they obviously meant "the Earth and its sky".

To suspend disbelief for the Bible does not mean you necessarily force modern cosmology into it. It means you take it literally, which means that in the universe of the Bible, the stars really are small glowing objects in the Earth's sky, and they really can just fall down.

Block · Post by **Block** » 2007-09-04 09:31pm

Plekhanov wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Aren't there some gods which gave birth to the universe, thus implying that they are much more vast than the universe itself?
I vaguely recall an Egyptian creation myth in which one of their gods created the universe simply by ejaculating (though it is quite possible i've got that memory badly mangled) which I suppose is even more impressive than giving birth to it.

Tears. It was Akut, or some such. There WAS a myth that included some god ejaculating and creating the stars I think, but I couldn't find it when I searched.

Someone earlier in the thread said that the monotheistic god isn't truly monotheistic due to Jesus, the Devil etc. That is true in christianity, but not in Judaism, where neither exist, and the angels are simply messengers because God's voice is too powerful for a mortal to comprehend/withstand.

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2007-09-04 09:31pm

Stark wrote:
chitoryu12 wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.
Exactly what was his name again?
Dude, a 'pantheon' is a GROUP of gods.

Sorry. However, I recall reading a book two months ago about how one particular god dances to destroy the universe as kind of a big reset button.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-09-04 09:32pm

Plekhanov wrote: Of course I’m speculating, I explicitly said I was a few posts back, the Duchess of Zeon mentioned a pantheon with what seemed to be at the upper limit so far as the ability to create & destroy things can go, so I was ‘idly pondering’ what could surpass that. How you think that’s off topic for a thread entitled ‘Most powerful god from religion...’ or why you’re getting so worked up about this is beyond me.

When you hit the limits of being able to destroy the entire universe (which includes time, fyi), speculating what could be more powerful is a tad bit pointless.