Do ghosts have rights?

[Kanastrous]

You're obviously one of those lifeists who's closed-mindedly prejudiced against the living-impaired.

For shame.

[ThatOneCatC]

I have two thoughts for this thread:

1) Legally, dead people have no rights. Whether or not they should is a different question, but for right now the dead have nothing.

That's very true, and there are specific laws on the books that forbid them from doing things like voting or owning property... So fuck 'em.

2) You only hear/see on shows people who don't along with their local ghosts. For all we know, there are an equal number of people who don't have issues with their dead residents and live with them just fine, perhaps even has some affection for them.

Yeah... and having some hot babe ghost around would rock. Maybe she could join in with my wife and I and make a threesome... err, or whatever the ghost and living people equivalent is.

Actually I believe there are laws against doing things like that to the dead. Perhaps not non-corporeal dead but still.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Returning to the idea that ghosts form during deaths that are upsetting and unpleasant, then why would they want to linger and take advantage of any property rights they might be awarded? Assuming this is how ghosts form, then the best thing for them is to be put to rest like any suffering hospital patient that needs the plug pulled, making the question of ghosts' rights moot.

[lPeregrine]

Remember when you're talking about property rights that the only reason the dead don't have rights is because as far as we know, the dead do not have any form of conscious awareness to make use of them. If it was somehow proven that the dead left behind a human-like spirit, under any sane ethical system, we would have to grant them the same rights as a living person.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Returning to the idea that ghosts form during deaths that are upsetting and unpleasant, then why would they want to linger and take advantage of any property rights they might be awarded? Assuming this is how ghosts form, then the best thing for them is to be put to rest like any suffering hospital patient that needs the plug pulled, making the question of ghosts' rights moot.

Isn't that like, say, dealing with the suffering of a rape victim by executing her ?

Also, what happens to a ghost if you "put it to rest" ? What if the "real" afterlife they'd be sent to is horrific ? Or what if that being a ghost is all the afterlife there is, and being "put it to rest" is just a euphemism for annihilation ?

[Kanastrous]

Have we all seen The Others?

That was a ghost story that actually kind of *did* revolve around ghostly property rights.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Returning to the idea that ghosts form during deaths that are upsetting and unpleasant, then why would they want to linger and take advantage of any property rights they might be awarded? Assuming this is how ghosts form, then the best thing for them is to be put to rest like any suffering hospital patient that needs the plug pulled, making the question of ghosts' rights moot.

Isn't that like, say, dealing with the suffering of a rape victim by executing her ?

Sure, I guess rape victims are comparable to irreparably damaged people in hospitals on life support.

Also, what happens to a ghost if you "put it to rest" ? What if the "real" afterlife they'd be sent to is horrific ? Or what if that being a ghost is all the afterlife there is, and being "put it to rest" is just a euphemism for annihilation ?

I don't know. I'm just running with the admittedly pro-deathist interpretation that ghosts linger because of some trauma that denies them their natural release. The nature of the afterlife was never really stipulated in the OP.

[Turin]

Remember when you're talking about property rights that the only reason the dead don't have rights is because as far as we know, the dead do not have any form of conscious awareness to make use of them. If it was somehow proven that the dead left behind a human-like spirit, under any sane ethical system, we would have to grant them the same rights as a living person.

Well that was my previous point. You wouldn't need to give them the same rights, because they have entirely an entirely different set of needs from living humans.

[Cykeisme]

As already discussed, it would vastly depend on the mental state- and in fact, the true nature- of the ghosts.
There's a vast range of possibilities, from having mere impressions on the environment, to fully conscious and complete psyches.

In our hypothetical situation, are all the ghosts from one point in this spectrum, or do we have varying types?
If they vary, I figure a classification system will need to be established beforehand before we can even begin to argue what sorts of rights any individual apparition would have.

Returning to the idea that ghosts form during deaths that are upsetting and unpleasant, then why would they want to linger and take advantage of any property rights they might be awarded? Assuming this is how ghosts form, then the best thing for them is to be put to rest like any suffering hospital patient that needs the plug pulled, making the question of ghosts' rights moot.

Isn't that like, say, dealing with the suffering of a rape victim by executing her ?

Sure, I guess rape victims are comparable to irreparably damaged people in hospitals on life support.

Why are we comparing one analogy to another without involving the actual subject matter?

[Dooey Jo]

In our hypothetical situation, are all the ghosts from one point in this spectrum, or do we have varying types?
If they vary, I figure a classification system will need to be established beforehand before we can even begin to argue what sorts of rights any individual apparition would have.

If figure it might be a spectrum (even though what kind of ghost it is tend to depend on who you ask, since all psychics have their own personal theory of the universe and what ghosts are). Poltergeists that follow people around at one end, and maybe very local haunting ghosts at the other. But it's possible that ghosts that don't make a lot of noise or stay in only one place are as conscious as any other, just like real people that are quiet or don't like to go outside.

However, if ghosts merely were "psychic recordings", how would it be possible to talk to them and tell them to go away? Maybe psychics can read them like the label on a cassette...

Returning to the idea that ghosts form during deaths that are upsetting and unpleasant, then why would they want to linger and take advantage of any property rights they might be awarded? Assuming this is how ghosts form, then the best thing for them is to be put to rest like any suffering hospital patient that needs the plug pulled, making the question of ghosts' rights moot.

Maybe they linger because they really didn't want to go, and not like that. Consider, for instance, the documentary Ghost, where Patrick Swayze didn't go into the light because he had to protect Demi Moore (or whatever, I haven't seen it in ages). Maybe these ghosts don't go because they just aren't finished living yet, and just sending them off to oblivion doesn't make their "unfinished business" any less unfinished. In any case, it seems reasonable that the ghosts would know whether or not they want to stay (unless they are retarded I guess), and if they say no, should they still be "helped"?

Of course, as someone pointed out earlier I think, if we end up with some stalker ghosts, we probably need a ghost police, as ghosts will also have responsibilities if they are to have any rights. Maybe free-roaming poltergeists would be good for that job.

[Exileman]

WHat about other legal ramifications? If ghosts are recognized by a court of law, what happens to the definition of murder? Theoretically, one can survive post-corporeality. The existence is limited comparatively, but still there. Not to mention what of contractual obligations? If they (ghosts) were granted property rights, would they still be subject to contracts signed will corporeal? "Yes sir, I understand you don't have a body to enjoy the car anymore, but you signed a 3 year contract."