Non-Conventional arguments for abortion.

[Samuel]

Lets imagine that you lived in Germany during the rise of Hitler. Hitler has avoided invading Poland and starting a massive World War, but he has started the Holocaust within Germany itself. The government is systemically killing millions of people in cold-blood without a second thought.

Or he could just kick them out of the country, like the origional plan.

There are even death-camps located nearby your house and little prisons scattered throughout your home-city. You are naturally opposed to this policy of mass murder, and you have even taken part in some minor protests against these government policies. However, the government merely ignores you and these sort of protests have accomplished nothing despite years of trying.

Except this actually happen and the government backed down. You know- killing of the handicapped?

You know that roughly 50% of all the Germans living in Germany are also opposed to these policies of mass murder and genocide, and they too have taken part in these protests.

If unrest is that prolific, there is no way the government can be standing.

You try to get in contact with Germans also opposed to these policies and form a resistance front that opposes Hitler's regime of mass murder using whatever means needed. If you think it will help, you will kill and target Waffen SS soldiers that work in the death camps and who kill and torture the millions of innocent civilians.

Abortion clinics aren't run by the government.

You will try to kill or physically stop Germany politicians that support Hitler's policy of killing millions every year.

Yes, Nazi Germany was notable for being a democracy.

You continue to take part in the odd protest against the government, preaching the evils of death camps to people to talk to, and peacefully showing your opposition to the government's policies of mass murder.

You mean like... Ghandi? Well, that only works if the government does not respond with total brutality and a sizable portion of the population sides with you. Which actually fit the sitaution you described.

There are death camps (abortion clinics) scattered throughout your home city.

Unless you live in a red state. Than there might be one or two in your state... maybe. I guess political action is effective.

Now, according to Wikipedia, 26 million abortions are conducted in countries where it's legal every year.

Great- so now we are on a crusade to eliminate abortion accross the planet?

Personally, had I lived in the situation I just created above, I would have gladly grabbed a gun and tried to spark a rebellion against Hitler, and I find it hard to believe that most of you wouldn't have done the same. After all, we are all proud of our grandparents who did go and fight the Nazis and who did defeat Hitler's mass murdering regime. How can we say we are proud of them if we wouldn't do the same ourselves?

They were the first people sent to the camps.

So, the question I pose to you can be simply put as this: How does one approach the issue of opposing abortion, considering it's such an important issue? How does one justify honouring those who fought mass murderers in the past, but refusing to fight modern-day mass murdering governments?

Option C
Leave the country. Not all problems are binary.

[Junghalli]

I don't think he's actually making an anti-abortionist argument so much as suggesting that if pro-lifers really believed abortion was equivalent to murder they'd probably be more militant about it, so a point by point rebuttal seems to me like it's kind of barking up the wrong tree.

[Samuel]

I don't think he's actually making an anti-abortionist argument so much as suggesting that if pro-lifers really believed abortion was equivalent to murder they'd probably be more militant about it, so a point by point rebuttal seems to me like it's kind of barking up the wrong tree.

Actually, I just showed that it would backfire- being more militant would get people to distance from you, especially in the US. I'm pretty sure most of the population considers armed insurection against the government treason.

Lets not forget that the non-violent means worked pretty effective so far!

[TheKwas]

The point is why aren't more people militant and why would people distance themselves from you? Why does the pro-life movement disown the abortion clinic bombers? I'd reason it's really because they don't care about abortion nearly to the extent that they claim to (1 embro = 1 human life). If they did, there would be a much more violent reaction. Right now, from what I've seen there are just the odd protest at an abortion clinic, and the odd politician that uses the issue to get elected... and then ignoring the issue once he's actually in power.

[Samuel]

The point is why aren't more people militant and why would people distance themselves from you? Why does the pro-life movement disown the abortion clinic bombers? I'd reason it's really because they don't care about abortion nearly to the extent that they claim to (1 embro = 1 human life). If they did, there would be a much more violent reaction. Right now, from what I've seen there are just the odd protest at an abortion clinic, and the odd politician that uses the issue to get elected... and then ignoring the issue once he's actually in power.

The movement isn't about protecting fetuses, but controlling women. This is really low lying fruit.

[Alyrium Denryle]

The point is why aren't more people militant and why would people distance themselves from you? Why does the pro-life movement disown the abortion clinic bombers? I'd reason it's really because they don't care about abortion nearly to the extent that they claim to (1 embro = 1 human life). If they did, there would be a much more violent reaction. Right now, from what I've seen there are just the odd protest at an abortion clinic, and the odd politician that uses the issue to get elected... and then ignoring the issue once he's actually in power.

The movement isn't about protecting fetuses, but controlling women. This is really low lying fruit.

I was waiting for someone other than me to point that out...

The actions of the pro-life movement are not consistent with actually giving a shit about fetuses or children. If they thought the fetus was a person they would support social programs to help single mothers, they would violently oppose the systematic murder of millions of children and seek to have women who miscarry punished somehow.

But they dont do that stuff.

Their actions ARE consistent with the goal of controlling women. The fetus is just an excuse they delude themselves into half-way believing.

[Junghalli]

If they thought the fetus was a person they would support social programs to help single mothers, they would violently oppose the systematic murder of millions of children and seek to have women who miscarry punished somehow.

Even if you bought the fetus = human line, the last one would still be retarded. You're going to punish people for a process they have no control over? It would make much more sense just to chalk miscarriages up to tragic accidents.