People overestimate their reactions to racism

[ArmorPierce]

Yes, my ancestors from my mother was continental Spanish and in the country she's from she'd be called gringo

Correction. She is considered white and I would be be called gringo (and be considered white).

Except accepting responsibility has precisely dick to do with my point.

Then what is your point? If your point is that if things were reversed it would be the same I stated that that doesn't matter one bit.

Honestly though, if you really are white that just makes your original post even more hilarious, because it makes it look like you're doing everything possible to establish yourself as "not racist"; not like "those other" white people.

Are you trying to make a point? Please state it clearly.

[Darth Wong]

It's an interesting study, but a few questions come to mind:

Did they repeat the experiment, but with a white actor bumping a black actor in front of a black test subject, with the black actor muttering a racial slur?

When the test subjects witnesses the bump and racial slur, how were the actors dressed and how did they present themselves? Were they both in t-shirts and jeans, or was the white guy in a suit and the black guy looked like he just came out of a bad rap video? What would the reaction be is the black actor was in a suit and the white actor looked like Vanilla Ice?

In other words, "it's an interesting study, but how do we know it was not conducted in an incredibly incompetent and dishonest fashion, with incredibly obvious uncontrolled variables or prejudicing factors?"

Really, you could ask that about any kind of academic work (or for that matter, any news article). It seems like an excuse to say that a study doesn't really mean anything even though you have no basis for saying that.

[Darth Wong]

BTW Laggy, I hate to say this but you butchered English in your thread title. It should say "People OVERestimate their reactions to racism", because that's what the study indicates: that people expect to react more strongly than they actually do.

[General Zod]

Then what is your point? If your point is that if things were reversed it would be the same I stated that that doesn't matter one bit.

No jackass. My point is that it's not something that's inherently unique to white people, the way you keep trying to paint it. White people just happen to be in a position of dominance to abuse it.

Are you trying to make a point? Please state it clearly.

As much as you go on about white people being closet racists, what makes you think you're somehow immune to this?

[ArmorPierce]

No jackass. My point is that it's not something that's inherently unique to white people, the way you keep trying to paint it. White people just happen to be in a position of dominance to abuse it.

Where did I stated that it was inherently unique to white people?

In fact I acknowledged it:

Further, white people are not the people being oppressed and thus racism directed towards white people from minorities is much different than racism directed from white people to minorities.

In fact I've been the victim of racism from black teachers growing up when I was a kid and at times the only non-black student in the class (two as far as I can recall).

The only reason you would keep bringing this fact up is because you think it somehow justifies the behavior.

As much as you go on about white people being closet racists, what makes you think you're somehow immune to this?

I never claimed to be 'immune' to it. Being racist, much as being stupid, is very easy.

[General Zod]

In fact I've been the victim of racism from black teachers growing up when I was a kid and at times the only non-black student in the class (two as far as I can recall).

Experiencing racism != being a member of an oppressed social group.

Where did I stated that it was inherently unique to white people?

In fact I acknowledged it:

Quote:
Further, white people are not the people being oppressed and thus racism directed towards white people from minorities is much different than racism directed from white people to minorities.

That doesn't sound like an acknowledgement at all, more like it completely misses the points that were being brought up in the study. If anything the study is less indicative about "white people vs colored people" and more about "dominant ethnic group vs minority ethnic group". If you replaced a white and black person with an ethnic Han and Uyghar and Chinese volunteers, I'll bet the results would be strikingly similar.

The only reason you would keep bringing this fact up is because you think it somehow justifies the behavior.

Or because you keep misrepresenting the study.

[Lagmonster]

BTW Laggy, I hate to say this but you butchered English in your thread title. It should say "People OVERestimate their reactions to racism", because that's what the study indicates: that people expect to react more strongly than they actually do.

Aw, crap, you're right. I overestimated my proof-reading abilities and scored a fuckup.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Did they repeat the experiment, but with a white actor bumping a black actor in front of a black test subject, with the black actor muttering a racial slur?

Didnt need to. Racism is racism regardless of who it is directed against.

When the test subjects witnesses the bump and racial slur, how were the actors dressed and how did they present themselves? Were they both in t-shirts and jeans, or was the white guy in a suit and the black guy looked like he just came out of a bad rap video? What would the reaction be is the black actor was in a suit and the white actor looked like Vanilla Ice?

Are you really this big an idiot? No, seriously, this was done by a lab at NYU, and published in Science. Yes, they controlled for that with a standardized value-neutral presentation of the actors.

For fuck's sake read the god damn paper.

[Azazal]

In other words, "it's an interesting study, but how do we know it was not conducted in an incredibly incompetent and dishonest fashion, with incredibly obvious uncontrolled variables or prejudicing factors?"

Really, you could ask that about any kind of academic work (or for that matter, any news article). It seems like an excuse to say that a study doesn't really mean anything even though you have no basis for saying that.

Actually I truly am curious as to what the entire environment used for the test is, and how different the results are when the actors and test subjects are changed, both race and gender.

Are you really this big an idiot? No, seriously, this was done by a lab at NYU, and published in Science. Yes, they controlled for that with a standardized value-neutral presentation of the actors.

For fuck's sake read the god damn paper.

You know I would love to read the original paper, but lets look at something here shall we?
The link to the paper provided by the original article: 10.1126/science.1164951

Has an overview of the paper:

Mispredicting Affective and Behavioral Responses to Racism
Kerry Kawakami,1* Elizabeth Dunn,2 Francine Karmali,1 John F. Dovidio3

Contemporary race relations are marked by an apparent paradox: Overt prejudice is strongly condemned, yet acts of blatant racism still frequently occur. We propose that one reason for this inconsistency is that people misunderstand how they would feel and behave after witnessing racism. The present research demonstrates that although people predicted that they would be very upset by a racist act, when people actually experienced this event they showed relatively little emotional distress. Furthermore, people overestimated the degree to which a racist comment would provoke social rejection of the racist. These findings suggest that racism may persevere in part because people who anticipate feeling upset and believe that they will take action may actually respond with indifference when faced with an act of racism.

Below it a link for Read the Full Text

Goes to

Subscribe/Join AAAS or Buy Access to This Article to View Full Text. The content you requested requires a AAAS member subscription to this site or Science Pay per Article purchase. If you already have a user name and password, please sign in below.

So I can but access to this 1 article for $15.00, or subscribe to AAAS as a patron for $310. Sorry but for an article that I find interesting at best and would use just here, it's not worth the cost. So before you start screaming read the fucking paper, check to see just how easy it is to acces.

[Zac Naloen]

I would like to be surprised by this study but I really can't be.


It's long been known that what people say to fit in, and what they do to fit aren't necessarily the same.


Everyone (well everyone reasonable) knows it's a very bad thing to be racist, so will be theoretically outraged at any racism especially around like minded people. But when it comes down to practise, it takes a very brave man/woman to challenge a racist rather than be silent and work pretend it didn't happen.

[ArmorPierce]

Experiencing racism != being a member of an oppressed social group.

Really, no shit?! What the fuck does this have to do with anything? I never claimed to have been part of an oppressed social group and in fact quite clearly stated that racism from the group in power to the one not was completely different than the reverse. In fact, my next line you quoted basically acknowledges that. You're really reaching for shit to say, aren't you?

That doesn't sound like an acknowledgement at all, more like it completely misses the points that were being brought up in the study. If anything the study is less indicative about "white people vs colored people" and more about "dominant ethnic group vs minority ethnic group". If you replaced a white and black person with an ethnic Han and Uyghar and Chinese volunteers, I'll bet the results would be strikingly similar.

Maybe yes or maybe not. It don't fucking matter because this study is in context of racism in America which IS a 'white people vs colored people' thing and that's what the study was about.

Or because you keep misrepresenting the study.

Or maybe you're a dumbass and don't want to admit the power structure in America is largely based on race hence the group in power and the group oppressed and their race is historically intertwined and remains largely so today. Don't like it because you don't want to admit that being in that group means that you benefit from it? Tough shit.

[General Zod]

Really, no shit?! What the fuck does this have to do with anything? I never claimed to have been part of an oppressed social group and in fact quite clearly stated that racism from the group in power to the one not was completely different than the reverse. In fact, my next line you quoted basically acknowledges that. You're really reaching for shit to say, aren't you?

Because you look like a jackass by claiming you can understand a minority's position because you've experienced racism before?

Maybe yes or maybe not. It don't fucking matter because this study is in context of racism in America which IS a 'white people vs colored people' thing and that's what the study was about.

The study was about people predicting their reaction to racism. Since, you know. It says as much in the fucking article. The specific race didn't matter.

Or maybe you're a dumbass and don't want to admit the power structure in America is largely based on race hence the group in power and the group oppressed and their race is historically intertwined and remains largely so today. Don't like it because you don't want to admit that being in that group means that you benefit from it? Tough shit.

Or just maybe I just don't feel the need to turn every thread about racism into the same fucking conversation about how white people won't accept responsibility ad nauseum? It's about as interesting as posting a Chick tract to bash.

[ArmorPierce]

Because you look like a jackass by claiming you can understand a minority's position because you've experienced racism before?

lol, that was in response to your post claiming that I was making it seem that racism unique condition to white people. I acknowledged racism is possible from other people besides white people previously and posted an example me experiencing non-white racism, so I know that it is not unique. I never claimed to understand how they were feeling due to me having experienced racism liar.

The study was about people predicting their reaction to racism. Since, you know. It says as much in the fucking article. The specific race didn't matter.

The study was about Americans predicting their reaction to racism against blacks. Stop throwing around read the article comments when you obviously never did.

This was the scenario that Kerry Kawakami from York University used to try and understand the state of race relations in 21st century America.

Or just maybe I just don't feel the need to turn every thread about racism into the same fucking conversation about how white people won't accept responsibility ad nauseum? It's about as interesting as posting a Chick tract to bash.

Alright, that is some what fair opinion. I find it interesting because even with otherwise intelligent people, you'll get ignorant comments like "Why are they wearing those funny hats? Must be a gang thing."

[General Zod]

The study was about Americans predicting their reaction to racism against blacks. Stop throwing around read the article comments when you obviously never did.

This was the scenario that Kerry Kawakami from York University used to try and understand the state of race relations in 21st century America.

You're still reading this thing with a serious case of tunnel vision. The results aren't talking about just racism against black people. It's talking about racism in general. Which is precisely why the study can be applied to virtually any other ethnic group out there. Swap out black person with Mexican, Chinese, Japanese or whatever and you'd get the same fucking results.

This was the scenario that Kerry Kawakami from York University used to try and understand the state of race relations in 21st century America. Kawakami found that people are very bad at predicting their responses to racism. They may claim to shun hypothetical racists or be upset by their actions but when confronted by such people and events in reality, their predictions turn out to be dramatic overestimates of their actual feelings. This discrepancy may help to explain why racism is such a widely condemned but remarkably prevalent part of modern society.