Would Rome have been destroyed...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-03-09 08:46am

weemadando wrote:Oh - and Constantine was not a fucking Christian.

They like to claim he was.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-03-09 12:32pm

Constantine was only baptized on his deathbed, because there is a canon (often ignored now) in the Church about soldiers, and he qualified as one. Hence he was basically excommunicated his entire life...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-09 01:01pm

im pretty sure constantine was.. especially since he established christianity as the state religion and founded the Byzantine Empire in Constantinopal..

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-09 06:32pm

kojikun wrote:im pretty sure constantine was.. especially since he established christianity as the state religion and founded the Byzantine Empire in Constantinopal..

*slap* *slap slap slap slap slap slap*

Constantine after a fucking civil war against someone who's power base was in Rome decided to shift the capital away in order to protect himself. He got rid of the Praetorian Guard (who, to be quite honest had been knocking off more Emperors than they had protected) and legalised Christianity. HE DID NOT MAKE IT A STATE RELIGION, he merely made it something that you wouldn't get killed for following. And he did that because the Christians had supported him in his campaign. And if some moron wants to bring up his vision at the battle of Milvian Bridge, that vision was such an obviously ambiguous construct so that his followers could choose to see in it what they wished, be it a sign from Apollo, the Christian God, or even an image of the traditional Roman Cavalry standard.

Also - Constantine was not born Christian, his parents weren't Christian and in my opinion, based on the evidence available, I don't think he did convert, merely accept the Christian belief system and culture, which to be quite honest were amazingly close to his own pagan beliefs.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-09 06:35pm

kojikun wrote:im pretty sure constantine was.. especially since he established christianity as the state religion and founded the Byzantine Empire in Constantinopal..

Oh, and before I forget -

HE DIDN'T FUCKING FOUND THE BYZANTINE EMPIRE - HE WAS A FUCKING ROMAN EMPEROR! THE FUCKING BYZANTINES DIDN'T APPEAR FOR ANOTHER FUCKING MILLENIA! FUCKING HELL, GET AN EDUCATION!

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-09 06:37pm

OK, for everyone who is interested, another one of my essays is now available for perusal on my site.

COPY AND FUCKING PASTE THE LINK.

http://www.geocities.com/weemadnosh/Constantine.doc

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-09 06:45pm

ok goodness calm down andy

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-03-10 11:59am

Interesting essay Ando. Though how do you define Pagan, I assume you don't mean the state religion by that?

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-10 10:21pm

NecronLord wrote:Interesting essay Ando. Though how do you define Pagan, I assume you don't mean the state religion by that?

Pagan is the "state" religion. Its the accepted academic term for the traditional pantheon.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-03-11 12:51am

Eh? I think that the barbarians wanted to be part of the empire in that either they controlled it or were paid large sums of tribute.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-11 01:09am

ArmorPierce wrote:Eh? I think that the barbarians wanted to be part of the empire in that either they controlled it or were paid large sums of tribute.

The barbarians were a thorn in the side that became infected.

They started off being not much of a hassle, either having their arses handed to them on a platter by the army or being bought off for comparatively miniscule amounts of dosh.

As time went on however the focus of the empire shifted and the regional capitals came under increasing threat due to the relocation of the army from the "northern front" to the east. Bribes became larger and larger (placing great strain on the already fucked up economy) and the armies that were left in place were getting pissed off at being stuck in the arse end of the empire for years on end.

IMO what should have been done is a campaign early on to push beyond the Danube to the North Coast of Europe assimiliating the tribes (as they had done in other nations) and then pushed East to the Urals. The empire would have had to have delegate more authority to regional governors, but the food production and other issues faced later on would have been minimalised by the taking of this new terrain.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-11 05:23am

Well, Rome survived until 1806, at least in name, as the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations....

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-11 07:16am

Which was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-03-11 05:13pm

Dahak wrote:Well, Rome survived until 1806, at least in name, as the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations....

:D

Don't make me start with you too.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-03-11 05:41pm

weemadando wrote:
Dahak wrote:Well, Rome survived until 1806, at least in name, as the Holy Roman Empire of German Nations....

Don't make me start with you too.

All I said that the name lived on.
Not my problem that the German Emperors wanted to reign with the glory of Rome shining down on them...

Strate_Egg · Post by **Strate_Egg** » 2003-03-14 12:01pm

Actually....the Byzantines were in fact Romans. All members of the Roman Empire were Romans. They might have been culturally different, but then again...the Roman Empire was very diverse. That would be like saying that people from California arent Americans, just because we're in the east and they are in the west. Many individuals in the time period of the 4-500's actually considered themselves strongly Roman heirs.

As for the Emperor Constantine bit...yea, he wasn't christian till he was about dead. He was the symbol of a late night crammer.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-14 12:04pm

Dahak wrote:All I said that the name lived on.
Not my problem that the German Emperors wanted to reign with the glory of Rome shining down on them...

As has been said before that was neither Holy, Roman, or an Empire.