Self experiment with nano-antioxidant

[Simon_Jester]

Cosmicalstorm... do you actually disagree with the reasoning I have presented? And if so, why?

I mean, a large part of why I've bothered to write this is because I am sincerely concerned for your safety if you take an unstudied or semi-studied chemical substance.

For all I know, this stuff builds up in your brain and causes strokes over a five year time scale. Or maybe it just keeps accumulating and countering oxidization more and more effectively until it shuts down chemical pathways you need to live. Or it has some entirely unrelated side effect (or two of them, or ten) that you cannot predict.

And I have been trying to explain to you why I think this is very unsafe and unwise.

And yet your last few responses have this almost... mechanical quality. Like you're not really responding to me, you're just copying pages upon pages of technobabble by people who actually make money by selling this stuff as if it were a life-extending medicine.

Which worries me, because I perceive that you're treating this like a decision you don't really need to think about anymore.

I would strongly encourage you to engage your critical thinking skills with this issue, and actually seriously consider the objections I have raised- and if they are objections you can answer, please, please share those answers with me, rather than just changing the subject or ignoring me in favor of dropping more articles by 'scientists' of doubtful credentials on the pile of the things you already have. At the worst this is your life we're talking about, at best it is your wallet. Either way, it's worth spending some time actually thinking precisely about the difference between a well understood and tested medicine and a worthless fake remedy marketed by pseudoscientists.

[jwl]

Hey, everyone yelling at him...

The only way anyone is going to know if it is going to do anything is if there are people like him taking the substance to find out. That's why I asked if he was logging this anywhere apart from SDN: I want to know if there is anyone who can use the results of his experimentation.

[LaCroix]

Sadly, without a medical log done by professionals, the results will amount to zilch...

(Even with, a sample size of 1 is a bad study design.)

[Simon_Jester]

Very few useful medical results have been found by individuals self-experimenting. Without exception, the self-experimenters in question were actual physicians who knew how to make scientific measurements of what was happening to their bodies- and usually they were people who intentionally infected themselves with diseases or took other extreme measures.

Not just random people who drank snake oil for thirty years to keep the galloping heebie-jeebies at bay, because in that case a 'positive result' proves nothing. If cosmicalstorm doesn't get cancer, is it because he kept eating fullerenes? Or is it because he wouldn't have gotten cancer anyway? We can never know from this "experiment" or "bet" or whatever he calls it.

[Ziggy Stardust]

The FDA do not recognize aging as a disease, there is a capitalistic drive to find a single patentable substance.

Why would the FDA recognize aging as a disease? Aging is not a disease in the way we understand it as a biological process, and it has been argued that it may even be actively harmful to treat it as one.

Secondly, why would the "capitalistic" drive be to find a single patentable substance, as opposed to ten, or five hundred? That's already what we see many of the big pharmaceutical companies doing.

[Zixinus]

cosmicalstorm

Please, please reconsider what you are doing. You have only a rough idea of what you are doing and even then, you have no way to know what will happen. You are actively experimenting on yourself without any controls or worse, anyone who is there to help you if things go wrong.

Imagine if this stuff turns out to be so poisonous that you'll be knocked unconscious or be unable to communicate. Someone calls the ambulance but they'll have no idea what is wrong with you. You may die or suffer permanent injury because they'll have no idea what went wrong.

This is the thing about self-experiments: even when they were done successfully they always had a physician on-hand in case things turn out wrong.

For this to be a proper experiment you need to have a methodology to track the effects of this stuff on your, which probably involves machines and sample-taking that you do not sound like you have. You have no back-up plan if this thing turns out to be very poisonous. There is no one actively monitoring and checking your health except your subjective experience. You should know better than rely on that to measure this thing's effects.
It is entirely possible that it genuinely lengthens a rat's life but it would cause damage to a human. Or it might turn out that the rats actually had terrible side-effects that the researchers didn't notice.

Your health is of much, much higher value and being healthy right now is more valuable than a few possible years you either might or might not gain at the risk of losing that.

[Raw Shark]

Am I the only one here who doesn't think this shit is credible or actually want to stop this guy? Best of luck and all, but his voluntary experiences might also serve as a gruesome warning to millions of other crackpot-worshippers of various stripes who could potentially be saved, in which case hooray for self-sacrifice in a good cause.

[Darth Nostril]

No you're not the only one, I say let the stupids put undocumented crap in themselves, the worst thing that could happen is that they survive and we have to continue to put up with their incoherent babblings.

[bilateralrope]

No you're not the only one, I say let the stupids put undocumented crap in themselves, the worst thing that could happen is that they survive and we have to continue to put up with their incoherent babblings.

No, the worst that can happen is that it causes serious birth defects in their children.

[Simon_Jester]

Am I the only one here who doesn't think this shit is credible or actually want to stop this guy? Best of luck and all, but his voluntary experiences might also serve as a gruesome warning to millions of other crackpot-worshippers of various stripes who could potentially be saved, in which case hooray for self-sacrifice in a good cause.

Any community of people dumb enough to consume untested snake oil 'medicines' on a regular basis without thinking about the consequences are also dumb enough to not understand the implications when one of their ranks abruptly vanishes from the Internet and is never heard from again, on account of dying from snake oil poisoning.

[Darth Nostril]

No, the worst that can happen is that it causes serious birth defects in their children.

Oh go piss up a rope you humourless fucktard.

As if any of these tinfoil hat losers are ever going to kiss a girl let alone breed.

[Zaune]

Anyone who's made it to over a thousand posts around here probably has enough redeeming features that, on the whole, I'd actually prefer they not die.

Cosmicalstorm, please don't do this. If you think the beneficial health effects of this fullerene stuff merit further examination, use GoFundMe or some other crowdfunding service to try to raise money for a controlled clinical trial with proper medical supervision. At the very least, run this past your GP.

[Raw Shark]

Am I the only one here who doesn't think this shit is credible or actually want to stop this guy? Best of luck and all, but his voluntary experiences might also serve as a gruesome warning to millions of other crackpot-worshippers of various stripes who could potentially be saved, in which case hooray for self-sacrifice in a good cause.

Any community of people dumb enough to consume untested snake oil 'medicines' on a regular basis without thinking about the consequences are also dumb enough to not understand the implications when one of their ranks abruptly vanishes from the Internet and is never heard from again, on account of dying from snake oil poisoning.

What is more likely to make them think about the consequences?

[Simon_Jester]

Anything that is directly said to them in person, rather than "gee, I wonder where Fred went."

On the Internet it is very much possible to die without people realizing you have done so.

[cosmicalstorm]

I'm not stepping out into a void in doing this. There is a community and there are those who have been doing this for several years now, some of them are taking daily doses that are equal to every drop of C60-Oliveoil that I have taken during 6 months. I estimate there are a number of people who have dosed more than 1000 times as much as me, and they are reporting back and doing just fine. Quite a few have had extensive bloodwork done too and nothing weird.
The rat study by Baathi was a tox-study, they could not find anything toxic. Quite the contrary. And there are a number of studies on different fullerene-compounds that have found the same thing.
Even very large doses of nC60 injected does not create any poisoning. Most of the fullerenes, whether molecularized or in clusters, are rapidly excreted.
So I feel pretty safe.

Holding the idea in my head like a hologram and turning it around, it's possible for me to see the madness of it from one perspective as Simon has pointed out. But the more I scrutinized this molecule the more I changed my mind. Turning it around and looking again I see an interesting bet, it's pretty low risk IMO. And not one I take lightly on.

I have learned some interesting things from SDN over the years, practical matters in nuclear war, the use of RKV's. Some basic life lessons and so on.

I wanted to share this weird little idea of using what might be the next generation in this lost corner of medicine, mitochondrial antioxidants, to extend my healthspan and possibly my lifespan.
When the first real life-extension treatments starts to show up I'm going to be an early adopter too. Clearing senescent cells seems like the first one to come out thanks to the massive cancer-research community.

[madd0ct0r]

Well, props to you for actually doing something. Its a potentialLy dangerous chemical in the long term, but so are most of the things we use in construction. At this point, I'm pretty much resigned to during horribly from something unpredicted. Glad you are joining me as a data point.

[Lagmonster]

If it makes you all feel better, very, very back-of-the-napkin thoughts convince me that from a toxicity standpoint he's doing less damage than if he'd have two cups of Joe a day with a tablespoon of salt. From a health standpoint, he's probably doing dick and all, likely specifically because of how he's taking it rather than what he's ingesting; think of the equivalent of rubbing crushed Tylenol on your forehead to cure a headache. Might be the right substance, but it's definitely the wrong application.

From a psychological standpoint, he's clearly just dealing with his own death anxiety. Some people start to believe in ghosts, some people go in for quack medicine. It's all just grasping at hope. None of you need to worry until he starts going Breatharian.

[Iroscato]

Gods alive, why did I just google that...my daily dose of stupid has been more than topped up...

[cosmicalstorm]

I have tried periodic fasting for up to 4 days. The science behind that is a lot more solid than C60. Valter Longo has done some fascinating studies on the connection between AMPK, IGF-1 and PF. Two well done studies will be released this year.

Calorie restriction is a very wide-ranging word. We focus more on periodic fasting - we're not really big believers in having people be on special diets or restrictions all the time. We just believe in interventions that are short and lasting, that can last a long time and protect from aging and age-related diseases. But also the use of these in improving disease treatment.

It has been very effective. Originally we did this in simple organisms to understand the molecular basis for it, and then moved to mice, and now we're finishing a number of clinical trials. The effects have been very, very promising. Most of it is not published in humans yet but a lot of it is already finished. So in the next year or so we're going to have at least 3 papers and clinical trials showing normal subjects, cancer subjects and also other diseases, showing the efficacy of these techniques, but also the high compliance that we get in doing this. So it's really something that we've found that most people can do.

As soon as the clinical trial is over basically that's it - people can start doing it. Now for the cancer one people could do it, but not to treat the cancer, only to reduce the side effects of chemotherapy. The cancer itself is regulated by the FDA so we'll have to continue our trials until these are FDA approved if we want to have the treatment included in therapy for delaying cancer progression. But of course people will do it anyway, because if you can use it with chemo obviously you're already using it to treat cancer but you just can't say.

The reduction of IGF-1 is really key in the anti-aging effects of some of the interventions. Both the dietary ones and the genetic ones. We've been putting a lot of work into mutations of the growth hormone receptor that are well established now to release IGF-1 and also cause a record life span extension in mice. So we know for example with chemotherapy resistance if you fast mice and inject IGF-1 you reverse a lot of the protective effects of fasting. So it's important; it's not the only factor, but it's certainly one of the key ones.

http://michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/ ... ter-longo/

[APlayerHater]

Get back to me if you end up living forever. I'll keep an eye out.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Fasting is a touch line to straddle. The problem is that if you fast just a little too much, your body goes into extreme starvation mode and you will actually GAIN fat, because your body is trying to build up your energy reserves while running your metabolism as low-energy as possible. Periodic fasting aims to get around that, but honestly it's just more effective to eat 4-5 smaller meals spread out over the day instead of 2-3 big ones like most people do. Your body doesn't do a good job of digesting more than about 8oz or so of meat at once, anyway.