Use of lethal force to defend your home.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-06-15 11:21am

They get one verbal warning, followed by me shooting one of them to prove I'm not bluffing. If they run away, great, if they choose not to, then it's shoot to kill.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-06-15 11:38am

All I can say is that I hope those mothafuckers have adequate life insurance.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-06-15 12:36pm

If the desire is to determine whether someone would kill to protect his property WITHOUT making personal safety an issue, then having a mob coming at you screaming "burn the motherfucker out" ruins the scenario.

I thought that stating that you have time to safely flee kept personal safety from being the issue?

I guess I wasn't clear enough when I wrote the scenario.

This is an example of why I can't write a good story to save my life.

BrYaN19kc · Post by **BrYaN19kc** » 2003-06-15 05:13pm

In Missouri, if you shoot the guy, you better make sure he falls and dies inside the house and if he doesn't, you best drag him back inside. Otherwise, you can be charged with a crime.

I'm sure that's probably the law in other states as well. With my luck, I would miss and shoot the guy in the leg, mame him, and then he would sue me. ROFL.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-06-15 05:27pm

Warn, then bust caps in dere asses.

Thrawn, just about anywhere in the country you can call a cop and call a pizza, and your pepperoni will be there before the police.

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2003-06-15 05:30pm

First I'd warn them, if they didn't leave I'd open fire.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-06-15 05:55pm

BrYaN19kc wrote:In Missouri, if you shoot the guy, you better make sure he falls and dies inside the house and if he doesn't, you best drag him back inside. Otherwise, you can be charged with a crime.

I'm sure that's probably the law in other states as well. With my luck, I would miss and shoot the guy in the leg, mame him, and then he would sue me. ROFL.

I think you're right on that although here in Arizona they are slightly more lenient on pressing charges because of the juries they'll have to deal with.

Still, I think that if your house was surrounded by a mob with fire and gasoline I would think the law might feel that you were justified in shooting some of the people.

In the scenerio suggested there better be a lot of time to get away and a big window of opportunity because deadly force is often justified if you feel threatened. I would feel threatened if there was a big mob around my house. I also wouldn't be inclined to trust them if they told me I could leave. So I'd need to know they were serious, have a very safe opportunity to leave, and know that the police would not be arriving to deal with these people.

If they insisted on burning it down even though I won't leave I still think I'd be justified in shooting them or at them. Even if they argued that they gave me a chance to get away what they are doing is still against the law while me staying in my house is perfectly legal.

Of course this is all moot since I don't own anything more than a pellet rifle. Now my dad's house, they better have a big fuckin' crowd because he's going to be unable to shoot because of soreness before he runs out of ammo.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-06-15 05:58pm

weemadando wrote:1) Call police.
2) Warn mob verbally (from window)
3) If no response (well, no positive response), fire one shot at the ground infront of the ringleader.
4) If no response warn again.
5) Unless they begin to advance on the house, maintain the status quo until the police arrive. If they advance, fire another round or two infront of the mob, see if they slow or halt. If not, shoot the ringleader. Unless its a truly determined mob, this should make them back off.

I forgot to mention that I thought your list was well thought out and perfectly sensible. If there's no obvious ringleader I'd suggest shooting the people with the gas and torches.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-06-15 06:10pm

I treat this the way I treat all threats. First you get a warning then I kick your ass.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-15 06:46pm

Call the police while checking my weapon with the other hand, warn mob and fire a shot shortly after. If they do not drop what they've got or run I'm shooting to kill.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-06-15 06:48pm

I go out and tell them to back off, and raise my gun to prove my point. If they then get any closer, bang.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-06-15 06:50pm

Kitsune wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Id try to wound them...... I wouldn't actually kill them unless I had to (to defend my life). Don't get me wrong though, if they die I won't be shedding any tears.
The safe technical term is that you shoot to stop...wounding gets you malicious wounding in most states...also, in many cases a hand or leg shot will not disable an oponent. Your best shot is a shoot to 'stop ' (not to wound or kill) with a center of mass shot. Easiest target to hit and one of the likeliest to 'stop' your opponent.

Actually I the term I was taught was "disable"; shoot to disable, not shot to wound or stop. Still is the center mass shot though, as that is more likely to score a hit than shooting at a limb.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-15 06:54pm

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Where the fuck am I living in Police take longer to arrive then pizza and house burning mobs roam the streets.

Africa

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-15 09:26pm

Kinda scary how many people would rather kill another human being than suffer property damage...

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-06-15 09:35pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:Kinda scary how many people would rather kill another human being than suffer property damage...

"Property damage"? Did you read the part where the mob was coming to BURN DOWN your home? These aren't kids throwing pumpkins through the screen door on mischief night, this is a mob coming to destroy everything you've spent your whole life working for. Fuck yeah, my house and my possessions are worth more to me than the lives of the people in the mob. Is the sum total of my life's work worth less than the life of someone who would destroy it all for no good reason?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-06-15 09:47pm

If I ever find someone breaking into my home when I have a firearm at hand, then I open fire, assuming they're not running frantically away or something.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-15 09:53pm

RedImperator wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:Kinda scary how many people would rather kill another human being than suffer property damage...
"Property damage"? Did you read the part where the mob was coming to BURN DOWN your home? These aren't kids throwing pumpkins through the screen door on mischief night, this is a mob coming to destroy everything you've spent your whole life working for. Fuck yeah, my house and my possessions are worth more to me than the lives of the people in the mob. Is the sum total of my life's work worth less than the life of someone who would destroy it all for no good reason?

The sum toal of your life's work amounts to nothing more than the things you've got hoarded away? Wow. I'd be really depressed if I was in your situation.

The Third Man · Post by **The Third Man** » 2003-06-15 10:11pm

I think the goalposts have shifted a bit here from the burglary thread that inspired this one. This scenario looks more like a hate crime to me; totally different kettle of fish to burglary which is a simple transaction with no need to kill anyone. Burglary is all about some character wanting to have away with your VCR, if you make it moderately difficult, he won't bother. No need for killing anyone at all.

So in the perspective of the original burglar thread, if the mob with torches and petrol etc etc came to your door trying to filch your VCR, is it really a good idea to go to war, or would it be the better just to let them take the poxy thing?

OK, suppose they are actually coming to burn your gaff to the ground, and set about the remains with sledgehammers until its utterly pulverised. Isn't that where home & contents insurance comes into play?

My answer to the scenario: Small quantity of verbal abuse and assorted threats from the upstairs window to see if they really mean it. If so leg it at the first opportunity, pausing only to pick up the policy docs, start filling out a hugely exaggerated claim form before I'm even out the door.

The Question · Post by **The Question** » 2003-06-15 11:12pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:Kinda scary how many people would rather kill another human being than suffer property damage...

If another "human being" shows he is willing to violate my property rights, I'm supposed to trust the angels of his good nature he will stop there, and not violate my life? Rape my wife? Beat me brainless?

Sorry - you break in the home, you get two in the head.

And in Texas I can even fire on the sumbitch if he is fleeing the scene with my CD player, if it is night time.

Under Texas law, shooting is justified for "criminal mischeif" after sunset.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-06-15 11:14pm

The Question wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:Kinda scary how many people would rather kill another human being than suffer property damage...

If another "human being" shows he is willing to violate my property rights, I'm supposed to trust the angels of his good nature he will stop there, and not violate my life? Rape my wife? Beat me brainless?

Sorry - you break in the home, you get two in the head.

And in Texas I can even fire on the sumbitch if he is fleeing the scene with my CD player, if it is night time.

Under Texas law, shooting is justified for "criminal mischeif" after sunset.

Am I the only one that finds it HILARIOUS that he said that with the avatar of the cute kitten?

The Question · Post by **The Question** » 2003-06-15 11:17pm

^^^

Deception and guile are powerful weapons to put your opponents at ease.

The Question · Post by **The Question** » 2003-06-15 11:22pm

Or would you prefer Hello Kitty like this?

-SR

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-15 11:24pm

They get a warning that I have a weapon trained on one of them and have called the police, as well as taken photographs of the mob for identification purposes. If they keep advancing, I shoot the ugliest one I can find in the leg or another non-lethal location. If they keep coming after that, I shoot to kill.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-15 11:29pm

The Question wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:Kinda scary how many people would rather kill another human being than suffer property damage...

If another "human being" shows he is willing to violate my property rights, I'm supposed to trust the angels of his good nature he will stop there, and not violate my life? Rape my wife? Beat me brainless?

That's quite the slippery slope you've got there. The motivations for breaking and entering are completely different from those for rape, assault and battery, or murder.

The Question · Post by **The Question** » 2003-06-15 11:36pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:That's quite the slippery slope you've got there. The motivations for breaking and entering are completely different from those for rape, assault and battery, or murder.

Not a slippery slope in the least.

If someone's breaking in my house, I don't have time or temperment to poll them on their intentions over a donut and coffee. The risk to me and mine increase exponentially with proximity.

All I know is there's a threat there willing to risk death breaking into someone's house - I live in Texas and more likely than not any home you see has a gun in it and an owner willing to use it - and in this case it's my house. And in Texas there is no "duty to flee" under the law - a man's home is his final refuge and he has every right under the law to defend it with deadly force. And I have every intention of doing so.

The home invader has simply chosen a very roundabout way of committing suicide.

His life ain't worth shit once he crosses the threshold, and the world is left a better place for one less criminal.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Use of lethal force to defend your home.

What is your choice