Suicide

[LordShaithis]

If all I have to do is prove it logical at all, I'll just go with an ironclad example.


A man is in a car accident. In this accident, his wife and children die horribly, and he himself loses both legs, one arm, his dick, and parts of his face. Why should he not kill himself? Is everything just going to get better? I think not.

[Rye]

Okay. Your turn.






Sound in mind? You give me a reason to kill yourself that isn't remotely emotional.

You are alone and bored for a long time, it serves no purpose to go on living, so you end it.

Again, this is another train of thought that just sounds unhealthy. If you want the attitude: "It's mine! I want it! I wanna do what I want with it!" Fine, but it's hardly rational. It's, again, emotional.

True, however if you serve no purpose to your species and no longer feel pleasure you might as well just end it, nothing more is to be gained.

[Zoink]

A man is in a car accident. In this accident, his wife and children die horribly, and he himself loses both legs, one arm, his dick, and parts of his face. Why should he not kill himself? Is everything just going to get better?

From my perspective, if the goal of living were to "make things better", then killing yourself makes the situation even worse. I'd rather stay in that state than lower it ever further.

[Korvan]

Once read a short story called "David" which is about a couple friends who go mountain climbing. David slips and falls off a cliff, but manages to land on a ledge twenty feet down (still about 200 feet above the ground).

But, he landed on a rock and broke his back. He spends the rest of the story trying to convince his friend to push him off the ledge as life is not worth living as a cripple.

Life is not worth living as a cripple. Life is not worth living cause a girl dumped ya. Life is not worth living cause yer picked on at school.

When his friend did push David off the cliff, he was not just killing David the cripple, he was killing all of the possible future Davids as well. David the painter, the musician, the politician. All of the Davids that were able to see that there was more to life than mountain climbing.

If you kill yourself cause you got dumped, then you're killing all the you's that were able to move on and find someone else. If you kill yourself cause of depression, then you just killed the you's that were able to get better as well.

Killing yourself because of current circumstances, no matter how shitty, is foolish if you don't consider the possible future circumstances. I went through a depression and recovered. The now healthy me is grateful to the depressed me for not ending it.

Some cancers and othe terminal diseases are another matter. In these cases, the vast majority future selves are just as pain-wracked as the current self and it would be a kindness to see to it that they do not get to exist.

My mother has made it clear, that as she grows older, if her quality of life deteriorates to a low enough point with no hope of improvement, she wants to end it. My dad will assist if he's able to, if not, that responsibility will fall to myself. It will suck, but I owe to her and all of her future selves to spare them unnecessary pain.

[Dorsk 81]

Animals and humans are very different. It's called the food chain. Face it, bucko, we've been eating cows, chickens, pigs and all their ancestors for millennia now. If you want to disrupt that, then find a veggie garden. We eat animals - and fruits and vegetables - because they provide nutrients. We are not apart of that food chain; i.e., we don't eat each other (before anyone says to me, 'But hey! Humans provide LOTS of nutrients.' That doesn't apply here).

I'm not a veggie, I'm just saying that how can you value lives differently just because they come in different forms? I'm not saying people shouldn't eat meat, I'm saying if you can readily eat animal after animal and not let it worry you then why should it worry you when the lif comes in a different form?

Sound in mind? You give me a reason to kill yourself that isn't remotely emotional. Good luck with that one. Secondly, you and I have very different beliefs, and as I've told many people, you get down to a certain point with beliefs where you come to a dead stop. You seem to think we have no choice when we are born. Okay, that's the truth - but I'm sure as fuck glad that I was born, so I don't take it for granted. And yes, I do think God has something to do with that, but that's when I lose you.

Ok, fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Instead of saying God/parents, leave it as a blank.
So, someone gave you life. What if you didn't want it, you can't exactly stick your hand up and say "Excuse me, I didn't order this."

Again, this is another train of thought that just sounds unhealthy. If you want the attitude: "It's mine! I want it! I wanna do what I want with it!" Fine, but it's hardly rational. It's, again, emotional.

How does it sound unhealthy? Your saying that someone GAVE you this "gift" of life and while you can take it into whatever direction you want career wise, etc, you can't decide to end it? You start smoking, thats taking your life down a much shorter road and that called a bad choice not suicide.

[SAMAS]

A man is in a car accident. In this accident, his wife and children die horribly, and he himself loses both legs, one arm, his dick, and parts of his face. Why should he not kill himself? Is everything just going to get better? I think not.

In his case, it's not an option. With injuries like that, he's going to bleed to death before he even gets a chance to contemplate it.

[Howedar]

If you make friends and become emotionally attached to people, then you are accepting the responsibility to try not to hurt them emotionally.

[Wedge]

If all I have to do is prove it logical at all, I'll just go with an ironclad example.


A man is in a car accident. In this accident, his wife and children die horribly, and he himself loses both legs, one arm, his dick, and parts of his face. Why should he not kill himself? Is everything just going to get better? I think not.

In that case I would take my life, I would understand everyone that would suicide in that circumstances, and if someone says I am being selfish for not thinking in the suffering of my friends and family he/she is wrong.
I would leave a note saying it's not their fault and that living on only to not make them suffer is selfish from their part, not mine as I don't want to live in that situation.

[aerius]

Hey, I'll pull my own plug if I damn well please. As for the arguments against:

#1) It'll make people sad! -- I'm not sitting through another fifty years of this, waiting to die of natural causes, just to keep you from feeling bad.

#2) It'll get better, really! -- The notion that everything will get better for everyone if they just wait long enough is Pollyanna bullshit.

#3) It's the easy way out! -- I like convenience.

#4) It's pathetic and cowardly! -- If I'm in a wretched enough state to want to bust a cap in myself, do you think I'm going to care about your opinion of my honor?

Feel free to kill yourself jackass, it's not like anyone's going to care or miss you. C'mon, I dare you. Do it!

[Death from the Sea]

*snip*So, someone gave you life. What if you didn't want it, you can't exactly stick your hand up and say "Excuse me, I didn't order this."*snip*

You have got to be fucking kidding. Suicide does not solve anything. see the other suicide thread on how I feel about the subject.

[LT.Hit-Man]

well my thoughts this matters is this.
If some one wants to kill themselves then let them.
No one has the right to say anything on the matter a persons life is there own to live as they see fit and if they do off themselves then that's up to them, sure they will miss out of what life has to offer, the good the bad and weird.
Besides there's one thing to take into acount if it is there fate to die by there own hand then that is there fate.

[Dorsk 81]

*snip*So, someone gave you life. What if you didn't want it, you can't exactly stick your hand up and say "Excuse me, I didn't order this."*snip*

You have got to be fucking kidding. Suicide does not solve anything. see the other suicide thread on how I feel about the subject.

Who said it solved anything?

[Illuminatus Primus]

And for being bullied? Shit, I need to rant on this. Try being bullied, having the shit kicked out of you, the school turning a blind eye to it, and your parents believing and telling you the bullying is your fault, then get back to me. What, they called you bad names and pushed you around a bit? Wait'll they try to put your head through a drinking fountain, wait'll you get stabbed a couple times, wait'll you get gang tackled and beaten getting off the school when the fuckers rob you for your school field trip money. Until then, deal with your fucking problems, I went through all the above and worse and came out kicking. Yeah I might be a little fucked up but that's a small price to pay compared to being completely fucking dead.

Holy shit. What kind of fucking school/kind of fucking rentz' did you go to/have?

[kojikun]

This person should have comitted suicide earlier. If he lacks that much balls and killed himself because someone BULLIED him then he was bad for the genepool. Fucker should have gone psycho and beat the crap out of someone instead. GOOD RIDDANCE.

[LordShaithis]

Feel free to kill yourself jackass, it's not like anyone's going to care or miss you. C'mon, I dare you. Do it!

I'm trying, but I'm determined to go out driving a tank through the front wall of a retard group home and slugging it out with the cops and National Guard afterward. Tanks are hard to get when you're poor.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Okay. Your turn.


Do you have any idea how unhealthy this sounds? Most people who would think, "Hey, I don't like life. Screw it" and slit their wrists is hardly someone thinking rational. If you wanna debate me on this, go ahead, but I'll give you cookies if you can sound rational whatsoever.

The Masadans, for starters, I'd argue--despite their religious fanaticism--made a very rational choice. They could have been overrun by the Roman Army advancing up that awesome feat of engineering, the great siege ramp flung up to take their mountain redoubt, but instead they chose suicide: Something, in fact, against the Jewish religion. Facing them was humiliation and slavery and the typical horrors of a camp being laid to pillage, by a field army that had faced a long and difficult siege to take their prize. So they put their swords to themselves and gained the renown of history.

One could argue on the same vein that most worthy suicides are similar. Antony and Cleopatra; the Japanese commanders of the Second World War who slit their bellies on failure, and the troops who in general died rather than face dishonour. Some of the suicides in the high command forced their arguments upon their superiours by committing suicide: Where they could not prevail in life, their demonstrated willingness to die for the course of action they believed in caused a change in policy. I would even say that some of the more reviled people in history have, at least from the perspective of their own lives, certainly done themselves the most service by committing suicide. Hitler may have denied the world the pleasure of punishing him by killing himself--but it certainly served him and his image well in the long run, in all liklihood. Also, such people as the Branch-Dravidians in Waco, choosing immolation over surrender.

There is a certain quality, a certain measure, in which one must be willing to recognize that the game is up, that every hope is gone, that you will not live to see another rise, or perhaps even the sunset of that day; and if you do, your life will be a grey thing, pointless, shadows, unworthy of living, a travesty to all that you have lived before. Then you have only to choose how to die, how to honour the life you lived and how to leave an appropriate legacy. Sometimes, it is like the Spartans at Thermopylae: They did not commit suicide, when surrounded, but nor did they attempt to retreat, to fight their way out of the pass: They advanced, forward, into the heart of the Persian Army, and fought until the last man. Sometimes, though, the decision must be like that of the Masadans, or an officer of the Imperial Japanese military--or even the women who flung themselves from the cliffs of Saipan. We can't really understand that, now, because we really were so culturally different that it wasn't a factor. But to them it was entirely necessary, and in the end the sacrifice should be honoured.

[Death from the Sea]

*snip*So, someone gave you life. What if you didn't want it, you can't exactly stick your hand up and say "Excuse me, I didn't order this."*snip*

You have got to be fucking kidding. Suicide does not solve anything. see the other suicide thread on how I feel about the subject.

Who said it solved anything?

Most people commit suicide in an attempt to circumvent solving problems in their life.

[Dorsk 81]

You have got to be fucking kidding. Suicide does not solve anything. see the other suicide thread on how I feel about the subject.

Who said it solved anything?

Most people commit suicide in an attempt to circumvent solving problems in their life.

How can it solve anything? Thats impossible, all it does is end things.
You solve a problem, the same equivilant of suicide would be to give up on the problem.

[Death from the Sea]

How can it solve anything? Thats impossible, all it does is end things.
You solve a problem, the same equivilant of suicide would be to give up on the problem.

Exactly, suicide doesn't solve anything. Those people who do kill themselves for that reason don't realize that. And you are exactly correct committing suicide is giving up, on everthing not just the problem(s) that person might be facing.

[Dorsk 81]

How can it solve anything? Thats impossible, all it does is end things.
You solve a problem, the same equivilant of suicide would be to give up on the problem.

Exactly, suicide doesn't solve anything. Those people who do kill themselves for that reason don't realize that. And you are exactly correct committing suicide is giving up, on everthing not just the problem(s) that person might be facing.

Tha was always my impressio of suicide, it can't solve anything because your not their. To me it was away of tapping out to life.

[HemlockGrey]

Duchess, under no circumstances would I 'honor the sacrifice' of a high-ranking member of the Imperial Japanese Army who committed suicide rather than surrender.

What did they sacrifice themselves for? The notion of racial superiority and Japanese hegemony over Asia? What was gained by their 'sacrifice'? Nothing worthwhile; and thus they deserve only contempt.

[Dorsk 81]

Duchess, under no circumstances would I 'honor the sacrifice' of a high-ranking member of the Imperial Japanese Army who committed suicide rather than surrender.

What did they sacrifice themselves for? The notion of racial superiority and Japanese hegemony over Asia? What was gained by their 'sacrifice'? Nothing worthwhile; and thus they deserve only contempt.

Who are you to say what people deserve?

[Death from the Sea]

Duchess, under no circumstances would I 'honor the sacrifice' of a high-ranking member of the Imperial Japanese Army who committed suicide rather than surrender.

What did they sacrifice themselves for? The notion of racial superiority and Japanese hegemony over Asia? What was gained by their 'sacrifice'? Nothing worthwhile; and thus they deserve only contempt.

Who are you to say what people deserve?

They don't deserve respect, because suicide is the cowards way out.

[Dorsk 81]

Duchess, under no circumstances would I 'honor the sacrifice' of a high-ranking member of the Imperial Japanese Army who committed suicide rather than surrender.

What did they sacrifice themselves for? The notion of racial superiority and Japanese hegemony over Asia? What was gained by their 'sacrifice'? Nothing worthwhile; and thus they deserve only contempt.

Who are you to say what people deserve?

They don't deserve respect, because suicide is the cowards way out.

If suicide is the easy way out beacuse life has been made hard, why is it wrong to say "I'll choose the easy way"? And why do you think it's the cowards way?
Call me crazy, but whats wrong with the easy way?

[Howedar]

I like to think that I'd be willing to stand up to anybody for every action I've ever taken. I wouldn't claim to always do the right thing, cause God knows I haven't. But I have never done anything I wouldn't stand up for and admit to, and accept proper consequences for.