Be Fruitful and Multiply ...

[Hobot]

the most conservative calc for us running out of fossil fuels that I have seen is on the order of 2080, with many more going as far as 2100+, rememeber though that there are plenty of new technologies that will extend this further and make fossile fuels irrelevant, plus we can make synthetic gasoline (New Zealand does it) so fossile fuel limits are bull

i can believe we can only have 2billion living at an american level of consumption, but considering the waste, a decent standard of living could be maintained for many.

But fossil fuels aren't the only concern, they're talking about other resources necessary for our society like grain, meat and fish.

[Shinova]

Overpopulation and overcrowding are often the same. That was my whole point. Do you want to live in a bubble in the ocean? If so good for you, but most people want a Single Family Home with a yard, located near good climates, good jobs, and good schools. Guess what. All those areas are already developed. So population growth only adds to the crowding in those areas. Now of course pop growth in Nigeria doesn fuck up shit here in San Jose, but population growth in CA does.

There are large, LARGE open spaces here in California that are not being used. Even if we don't take the ocean into consideration, there's still a whole lot of living space left.

Most people flock to where other people live, so the cities get crowded. That's why it seems crowded.

[TrailerParkJawa]

[quote="Shinova
There are large, LARGE open spaces here in California that are not being used. Even if we don't take the ocean into consideration, there's still a whole lot of living space left.
[/quote]

There are large areas of open space, not large areas of open space that are NOT under some sort of production or impact from people.

Most people flock to where other people live, so the cities get crowded. That's why it seems crowded.

And the cities are spreading out year after year. When I was a kid the drive to Tahoe often meant long expanses of open range or farmland. Now there is commercial or residential development springing upall over the place. I bet by the time my grandkids are my age, there will be development all along the I-80 corridor from Vallejo to Auburn.

100 years ago I bet noone expected what was to become Silcon Valley to be fully developed from one end to another.

At some point development has to come to an end unless we all want to be crowded like Japan. The question for us all is, how many people are acceptable to you? And can we even stop it? ie) Are we smart enough to figure out how to have a good economy in a world where pop growth is stable or shrinking?

Can a culture survive a shrinking population? Its my impression that most cultures that shrink become stagnant and die? What do you think?

[Bug-Eyed Earl]

We need a good dose of Captain Trips.

[Spoonist]

I'd just like to point out that with the current agricultural tech europe can easily produce all the food the whole population of the earth. With the advance of new science in this field, like multilayered greenhouses & GD crops, food is not a problem.
Regarding the 'most people want a house', I'd like to point out that there is this thing known as urbanization. That is most people in the world are relocating to cities. And that these people usually tend to stay in those crowded places.
Think about it.

Lets say that we built a city the size of england. That alone would house a population of 1Giga, quite comfertably as well compared to how the median population lives right now.
To support that city with food, we would only have to cultivate an area the size of ireland.
Do you get the picture?
Tellus could sustain a population of 100's of Giga.

Yes, there would be resource problems, which we would solve. There is already now talks of launcing mining prospects to the asteroid field. It is not economical yet, but as soon as resources prices goes up, that is where we will go.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I'd just like to point out that with the current agricultural tech europe can easily produce all the food the whole population of the earth. With the advance of new science in this field, like multilayered greenhouses & GD crops, food is not a problem.

Im not sure Europe can grow enough food for everyone, but I think we would both agree that there is enough food for everyone, its more a political/economic situation to why not everyone gets food.

Regarding the 'most people want a house', I'd like to point out that there is this thing known as urbanization. That is most people in the world are relocating to cities. And that these people usually tend to stay in those crowded places.
Think about it.

Think about what? Urbanization means houses. Where do you live? I think maybe you dont like in the US. Most growth here is in the suburbs so people can have single family homes or townhomes. As for staying in those crowded places, thats been one of my points. Adding population leads to additional crowding.

Lets say that we built a city the size of england. That alone would house a population of 1Giga, quite comfertably as well compared to how the median population lives right now.
To support that city with food, we would only have to cultivate an area the size of ireland.
Do you get the picture?

A city the size of England would be a nightmare. And have huge environmental impacts. No thank you.

Tellus could sustain a population of 100's of Giga.

Dont know what this is.

Yes, there would be resource problems, which we would solve. There is already now talks of launcing mining prospects to the asteroid field. It is not economical yet, but as soon as resources prices goes up, that is where we will go.

Technology does solve a lot of problems, but it also creates new ones. Technology wont bring back the wetlands we have filled in for development. Technology cant bring back large buffalo herds, etc. All development comes at a cost, there is no free lunch.

[Enforcer Talen]

We need a good dose of Captain Trips.

Id rather not, thankyou. a good world war would cause less damage, and might have some good after effects.