Today's ignorant creationist (2002-10-04)

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-07 07:49pm

He was a disgrace to the moniker, independent of who was involved in making the movie. He was also a disgrace to all multicellular life.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-10-07 08:03pm

Don't you just hate it when people say shit about stuff they don't even know about?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-10-07 08:36pm

Archaic` wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
Archaic` wrote:Do these people even read the site? Seriously, aren't all those already covered on the quickies page?
Actually its covered in a good high school education, but this person was away the day they taught science.
You mean there's actually such a thing as a good high school education? Please, tell me where there's a high school where I can observe this rare occurance.

It really depends on the high school and the teachers involved. At my high school, the teachers who get the lesser-performing students tend to be uninspired and dull, but the honors and AP teachers tend to be really engaging. The AP physics teacher here is serious; he makes you work, but in a good "learning through working" way, not a "keeping you busy with work" way.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-07 09:16pm

In case anyone's curious, he responded a few days later. I'll show you post and my response:

William J. Gibbons wrote: Hello Michael,

Thanks for getting back. I'm getting ready for work, but will answer you answers ASAP. I saw your home page. Nice family. I am originally from Scotland (emigrated to Toronto, Ontario in 1994) . My wife is Chinese and we have two handsome young sons. We have been in Calgary Alberta, now, for three mnoths. A pity we didn't touch bases sooner. A public debate on origins cwould have been something. I did, however, debate Professor Martin Fitchman from York Universtiy on the TV show, Michael Coren Live.
I didn't see it, but regardless of how it went and who "won", I would point out that televised debates are usually a circus act. A written debate is much more composed and rational 99.9% of the time.
William J. Gibbons wrote:I was professor of Creation Science at Canada Christian College in North York, and now teach the same course at Victory Bible College here in Calgary.

My webiste is www.creationgeneration.org

I will reply to your answers tonight if possible.
Before we start debating the merits of creation vs evolution in earnest, I would strongly suggest that you do two things:

Define evolution theory.

Describe the scientific method as you understand it.

Define creation theory.
I trust you will understand that if we have some fundamental disagreement on the definitions of the terms involved, it will be impossible to hold a serious debate, so it is best to get that out of the way right up-front, or we will waste a lot of time arguing in circles.

Of course, shortly after sending it I noticed that I should have said "three things" instead of "two things", but nobody's perfect. Anyway, that was sent yesterday afternoon (early afternoon in his timezone). He hasn't gotten back to me yet.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2002-10-07 10:33pm

Let's get ready to rrrrrrrrrumble!

I have a feeling this guy isn't going to get past the "define creation theory" part before Wong rips him a new one.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-10-07 11:58pm

Darth Wong wrote:In case anyone's curious, he responded a few days later. I'll show you post and my response:

Professor of creation science? if he does deside to debate, this should be very tragic, or laughable, depending on one's veiw of life

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-10-08 12:00am

Stuart Mackey wrote:
Archaic` wrote:Do these people even read the site? Seriously, aren't all those already covered on the quickies page?
Actually its covered in a good high school education, but this person was away the day they taught science.

The reason there are so many creationists is because they don't understand evolution. It's not a magic transformation from one creature to another like they think. As for the high school education, tehy proably weren't listening, or tehy came from a school that aught creation theory. If such a school exists, the world is a sadder place than I thought.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-08 12:09am

Stuart Mackey wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:In case anyone's curious, he responded a few days later. I'll show you post and my response:
Professor of creation science? if he does deside to debate, this should be very tragic, or laughable, depending on one's veiw of life

Sadly, they're allowed to teach whatever bullshit they want in private schools.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-10-08 12:16am

Darth Wong wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:In case anyone's curious, he responded a few days later. I'll show you post and my response:
Professor of creation science? if he does deside to debate, this should be very tragic, or laughable, depending on one's veiw of life
Sadly, they're allowed to teach whatever bullshit they want in private schools.

You have to be shitting me? seriously? This is not something that happens in NZ, private schools here must meet certain, state set, standards. While a private school will have its own character they must meet state guidlines on teaching all pupils science, maths, english etc.

I guess I am not used to how other nations education systems work..

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-10-08 12:22am

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
Archaic` wrote:Do these people even read the site? Seriously, aren't all those already covered on the quickies page?
Actually its covered in a good high school education, but this person was away the day they taught science.
The reason there are so many creationists is because they don't understand evolution. It's not a magic transformation from one creature to another like they think. As for the high school education, tehy proably weren't listening, or tehy came from a school that aught creation theory. If such a school exists, the world is a sadder place than I thought.

Any school that teachs evolution theory as fact is not worthy of the name. As to pupils who come out of school believing it, well they are entitled to their opinions, even if they are ignorant of clear scientific theory/facts.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-08 12:23am

Stuart Mackey wrote:You have to be shitting me? seriously? This is not something that happens in NZ, private schools here must meet certain, state set, standards. While a private school will have its own character they must meet state guidlines on teaching all pupils science, maths, english etc.

I guess I am not used to how other nations education systems work..

We have home-schoolers here (or perhaps I should say "home-skoolers", to use their preferred spelling

) who teach young-Earth creationism and white supremacism to their kids. I shit you not. And Stockwell Day (our opposition leader/flaming jackass at the federal level) publicly supported one private school that imported anti-Semitic far-right textbooks from Texas for an ultra-religious Christian private school in Alberta.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-10-08 12:37am

Darth Wong wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:You have to be shitting me? seriously? This is not something that happens in NZ, private schools here must meet certain, state set, standards. While a private school will have its own character they must meet state guidlines on teaching all pupils science, maths, english etc.

I guess I am not used to how other nations education systems work..
We have home-schoolers here (or perhaps I should say "home-skoolers", to use their preferred spelling ) who teach young-Earth creationism and white supremacism to their kids. I shit you not. And Stockwell Day (our opposition leader/flaming jackass at the federal level) publicly supported one private school that imported anti-Semitic far-right textbooks from Texas for an ultra-religious Christian private school in Alberta.

This is staggering, even our home schoolers must meet state standards, kids that dont, dont get into university, or anywhere else for that matter. This is not to say that NZ is perfect, we have our share of idiots, but surely someone there must have worked out that proper education guidlines must be enforced in all schools?
Far right, anti-semetic text books in a school? mind boggling, I dont know how to answer that kind of thinking.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-10-08 12:39am

How can you be a professor in Creation Science? Is it defined as a science in Canada? I know in the U.S. that Creation Science was ruled to not be a science. So I don't think that you can be a true professor with a degree in it. Is it different in Canada?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-08 12:43am

neoolong wrote:How can you be a professor in Creation Science? Is it defined as a science in Canada? I know in the U.S. that Creation Science was ruled to not be a science. So I don't think that you can be a true professor with a degree in it. Is it different in Canada?

You can make up whatever title you want in a private school. You can call yourself a Professor Emeritus of Flat-Earth Science if you want. The school may not be accredited to do jack squat and its degrees may be worth less than toilet paper, but that doesn't mean you can't set it up and give yourself fancy titles.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-10-08 12:48am

Ah thanks. Hmmm. So that's why so many so-called professors can be such idiots. Thanks for clearing that up.

C.S.Strowbridge · Post by **C.S.Strowbridge** » 2002-10-08 01:05am

Darth Wong wrote:We have home-schoolers here (or perhaps I should say "home-skoolers", to use their preferred spelling ) who teach young-Earth creationism and white supremacism to their kids. I shit you not. And Stockwell Day (our opposition leader/flaming jackass at the federal level) publicly supported one private school that imported anti-Semitic far-right textbooks from Texas for an ultra-religious Christian private school in Alberta.

Just a note, even the right-wing wackos that seem to form the core of the Canadian Alliance booted him out. And the person who replaced him (Steven Harper) said he admired Brian Mulroney and his legacy. It's like the CA is trying to keep the Liberals in power for the rest of eternaty.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2002-10-08 01:20pm

If you get to this post, Mike, what are the odds that you'll take him on in a public debate? Reading your go-rounds with the educationally-challenged is great entertainment, and this guy seems eager for a good thrashing.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2002-10-12 11:17pm

The "professor of creation science" apparently wants to debate! And he's a young-Earth creationist!

William J. Gibbons <congo@sprint.ca> wrote:I presume you received this already, but have not had the opportunity to reply?
Sorry. I've been extremely busy at work. You know, that damned thing which keeps us from our on-line activities
Darth Wong wrote:I would strongly suggest that you do two things:
1) Define evolution theory.
2) Describe the scientific method as you understand it.
3) Define creation theory.
Very well . Here are my replies:
1). The (biological) evolution theory proposes that various types of animals and plants had their origins in other pre-existing types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations.
Sort of. You are actually confusing ramifications of the theory with the theory itself. The proper definition of evolution is: "a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations."
2). The scientific method deals primarily with principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypothesis.
That is a description of the OBJECTIVE of the scientific method. It does not describe the scientific method itself, ie- how it works. Would you prefer that this subject be left to the debate itself?
3). The (young earth) creation theory or special creation holds that the universe and all life therin were created by God in an act of creative will in six solar or 24 hour days - the process or processes of which, are no longer in operation.
Ah, so when you say "creation theory", you mean Biblical creation theory, as opposed to vague, undefined "intelligent design" creation theory. Glad we cleared that up.
Darth Wong wrote:I trust you will understand that if we have some fundamental disagreement on the definitions of the terms involved, it will be impossible to hold a serious debate, so it is best to get that out of the way right up-front, or we will waste a lot of time arguing in circles.
Fundamental disagreements are all too inevitable in such debates. Let's stick to the facts and see where they take us.
Agreed.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2002-10-13 01:42am

Oh. My. Bob.

This is going to be one for the record books.

I can't wait.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2002-10-13 02:35am

AdmiralKanos wrote:The "professor of creation science" apparently wants to debate! And he's a young-Earth creationist!

Excellent! I look forward to his summery thumping.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-10-13 08:07am

Darth Wong wrote: We have home-schoolers here (or perhaps I should say "home-skoolers", to use their preferred spelling ) who teach young-Earth creationism and white supremacism to their kids. I shit you not. And Stockwell Day (our opposition leader/flaming jackass at the federal level) publicly supported one private school that imported anti-Semitic far-right textbooks from Texas for an ultra-religious Christian private school in Alberta.

Home-schooling isn't that bad. I was home-schooled when I was 5 or 6 by my mother, and I later became a quite competent pupil on a well-respected public school at the age of 7 or 8.

BTW, in which way was the textbook anti-Semitic??

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-13 12:15pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Home-schooling isn't that bad. I was home-schooled when I was 5 or 6 by my mother, and I later became a quite competent pupil on a well-respected public school at the age of 7 or 8.

That's only a couple of years; no big deal. I'm talking about people who never set foot in a normal school, so they can be kept ideologically pure by their parents.

BTW, in which way was the textbook anti-Semitic??

I wish I could remember the quotes, but one of the major Canadian newspapers printed a list of horrifying quotes from the texts at the time, in which the whole "Jewish world banking conspiracy" bullshit was described. It was rather eye-opening (there are actually people in my own country who believe this shit, although it should be pointed out that Alberta is a redneck state, and has about as little in common with Ontario as it does with, say, Finland).

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2002-10-17 04:01pm

I hate creationists. They give Christians a bad name... And what the fuck isup with all this "Jewish Conspiracy" stuff? I now it was used by Hitler alot during the Holocaust ("The Protocols of the Elders of Zin" and the Nazi Creed) but still, why dio people hate the them?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-10-17 10:35pm

Singuler Quartet wrote:but still, why do people hate them?

Religious bullshit is why. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all hate each other. They're like a bunch of children fighting over something that is in the end worthless. Jews are less expansionist than Christians and Muslims, leaving them as the minority group, ie the littlest kid of the three. That is why throughout most of the last two millenium, they have taken the most crap.