Another Country for Mike to Flame instead of the USA...

[Ted]

So does America, called the Oil Barons.

Hmm lets see Ten Richs people in the US?

Ok.. Oil Baron? First one is Number 13 according to 2001 Fortune(My Latest Copy)

And Gates Can Buy and sell the first twenty Oil Barons on the list twice over

Letsee, who's the President?
Well, an oil baron, whose his friends? Oil barons!

Get the idea?

[Knife]

So does America, called the Oil Barons.

Hmm lets see Ten Richs people in the US?

Ok.. Oil Baron? First one is Number 13 according to 2001 Fortune(My Latest Copy)

And Gates Can Buy and sell the first twenty Oil Barons on the list twice over

Letsee, who's the President?
Well, an oil baron, whose his friends? Oil barons!

Get the idea?

Ted, you seem obsessed with Mr. Bush and company. Take a break, organize your thought(s) and let it all out, man. When your done, take a look around and realize that you are in Canada, Bush is not your leader.

[HemlockGrey]

Bush is not your leader.

Yet.

[Knife]

Bush is not your leader.

Yet.

evil cakkle

You would be correct.

[Raptor 597]

Of course they're socially regressive. They still have a fucking monarchy, for chrissakes!

* dons flame-retardant suit *

I don't a problem with monarchy unless it's someone, but me being King

[Raptor 597]

Three of the top 10 are the sons of Sam Walton, aka, Mr. Wal-Mart.

I knew it! Wal-Mart is a secret orginzation to overthrow the American Establishment and take over the world!

Yep. I used to work for them...and still do, incognito.

(Calls out the Wal-Mart Cashier Assassins on Bean.)

*Calls out the Wal-Mart Greeter assisans on Anteduvilan and Bean* They're even more deadly.

[Mr Bean]

Letsee, who's the President?
Well, an oil baron, whose his friends? Oil barons!

Lemme see, Oh wait the other 100 Memebers of the Senate and all those fokes in the Courts and the House of Representaives?

Thier friends?
NOT OIL BARONS!

By your reasoning some of Clinton's best friends where Chinese therefor China was realy ruiling the US through him during the Clinton years

Or what about Bob Dole? Guess we are in for 4 years of Miltary Dictatorship if he gets elected!

Wait by your logic if Alyrinium where elected President, the entire US goverment would come out of the Closet as acutaly gay!



You seem to have an illogical hatred of Bush Ted, Why is that?

Oh and the bigest aurgment aginst your little deal

Bushs friends
Texas Oil Barons
What do they make money off of? Oil
What goes down in price when alot of it enters the market?
Oil

Who's profits suffer?
Why Bushs Oil Baron friends of Course!

Unless you want to tell me the Oil Barons LIKE shooting themselves in the foot the only thing Bush could do to help them is invade all the Mid East and "accidently" burn all thier oil off, forcing people to buy from Bushs Texas Oil Baron friends, reeping tons of profit

However you see it a War in Iraq or any Mid East oil rich Country will have a big negative effect on Oil prices, be it on acutal increased oil in the market or just speculation of it

So then Ted, Bush is doing EXACTLY what will hurt his Baron friends!
Gee I guess he's not that friendly...

[Carcharodon]

The United States kicking the shit out of Saddam and his Republican Blard is the only hope for the Middle East. For decades there's been this obscenely vicious circle of us propping up evil dictatorships like Saudi Arabia for lack of any other choice, and those dicatorships in turn dragging their peoples into a sewer of misery. Mutual parasitism. No one has ever really liked it, but until now there didn't seem to be any way around it, because stability over there is a prerequisite for oil (or so they say.) The whole world is equally complicit in this mess, developed and developing nations alike. We just do the dirty work for everyone else. All is drawn from the same poisoned well.

But if we can actually set up some kind of real democracy in this country with at least 112 billion barrels in oil reserves, then maybe all that will change. We won't need to rely on the Saudi royal family any more, and without our support they won't last long. If there really is this huge dormant desire for reform across the Mideast that I keep reading about in all these liberal newspapers that hate the United States, then maybe we'll see some evidence of it. Either way, hoisted with their own petard the pundits will be.

Of course, the last thing any dictator over there wants to see is a symbiotic realtionship between Iraq and the West without Saddam in the picture, so they make all sorts of dire predictions about what else might happen. And most countries are buying it. Cowardice is never an excuse for maintaining decades-old sick policy. Never.

[Enlightenment]

But if we can actually set up some kind of real democracy in this country with at least 112 billion barrels in oil reserves, then maybe all that will change.

Unfortunately the historical record states very clearly that the US would rather overthrow democracies rather than support them. The US has created two democracies (Germany, Japan) but has overthrown at least five. The jury is still out on Afghanistan.

The US will not risk its interests by installing a fickle democracy in Iraq. Rather it will find a convienent strongman who will allow the Friends of Shrub to pump those 112 billion barrels of oil out of Iraq for a minimal fee. Given the era there will be some attempt to give the strongman a sheen of democratic legitimacy but a true democratic state is completely out of the question.

We won't need to rely on the Saudi royal family any more, and without our support they won't last long.

Remove support for the House of Saud and Osama bin Laden will become the new king of Saudi Arabia. The only opposition groups in Saudi Arabia are extreme Wahabi fundamentalists. If the House of Saud falls from within the country it will be replaced by an even more extreme group. This cannot be regarded as progress.

If there really is this huge dormant desire for reform across the Mideast that I keep reading about in all these liberal newspapers that hate the United States, then maybe we'll see some evidence of it.

It's rather interesting that people who dismiss all dissenting views on the grounds that their authors 'hate America' generally have a deplorably poor understanding of the issues involved. The first step to understanding something is not to dismiss all information from informed authors as nothing more than propaganda. One cannot gain any reasonable understanding of global political issues merely by uncritically swallowing the nationalist claptrap spread by the US State Department or the likes of Rednecks 'R' Us sources such as Faux News.

[Stuart Mackey]

[quote="Enlightenment"][/quote]

Hear hear Enlightenment.
Its no use going bareling into the middle east all guns blazing, without actually understanding how the area works and also why they have such a great dislike for the US and the west in general. Actually on that thread of thought, I am surprised that the British are so gung ho on this issue, they normally display more forthought.

[Nick]

Hear hear Enlightenment.
Its no use going bareling into the middle east all guns blazing, without actually understanding how the area works and also why they have such a great dislike for the US and the west in general. Actually on that thread of thought, I am surprised that the British are so gung ho on this issue, they normally display more forthought.

It is easier to put the brakes on someone who doesn't perceive you as an enemy.

My opinion of the British strategy (giving what I know a fairly positive spin - the Blair government generally seems to have its head screwed on straight)):

Shrub has a bunch of gung-ho unilateralists in his administration. He also has a large number of people with a functioning brain.

Direct opposition of unilateral action is actually likely to strengthen the position of the unilateralists (i.e. "Why are we wasting our time even talking to these peacenik assholes?")

Support of the idea of action makes it more feasible to channel events towards appropriate action, as it allows the saner influences on Shrub a chance to achieve a softening of his stance.

And that's the problem with the Middle East - that some sort of action is necessary is fairly clear. Figuring out what action is appropriate is the hard part.

[NecronLord]

Three of the top 10 are the sons of Sam Walton, aka, Mr. Wal-Mart.

I knew it! Wal-Mart is a secret orginzation to overthrow the American Establishment and take over the world!

Well in the Aliens Ressurection Novellisation, Guess who buys out Wayland Utane (the company). Wal-Mart. I kid ye not.

[NecronLord]

All your human governments are inefficient and corrupt, be they monarchies or constitutional monarchies or oil baron monarchies..
You will all be happier when I take over as overlord of the universe.

Prehaps you would be interested in joining the Grand Coucil of Despots?

[Stuart Mackey]

Hear hear Enlightenment.
Its no use going bareling into the middle east all guns blazing, without actually understanding how the area works and also why they have such a great dislike for the US and the west in general. Actually on that thread of thought, I am surprised that the British are so gung ho on this issue, they normally display more forthought.

It is easier to put the brakes on someone who doesn't perceive you as an enemy.

My opinion of the British strategy (giving what I know a fairly positive spin - the Blair government generally seems to have its head screwed on straight)):

Shrub has a bunch of gung-ho unilateralists in his administration. He also has a large number of people with a functioning brain.

Direct opposition of unilateral action is actually likely to strengthen the position of the unilateralists (i.e. "Why are we wasting our time even talking to these peacenik assholes?")

Support of the idea of action makes it more feasible to channel events towards appropriate action, as it allows the saner influences on Shrub a chance to achieve a softening of his stance.

And that's the problem with the Middle East - that some sort of action is necessary is fairly clear. Figuring out what action is appropriate is the hard part.

This does not answer the fact that America has no clear Idea of what to do after the war. While there is no doubt that Saddam must go, America is treating a symptom, not the cause. Unless the USA works out in its own mind that simple good vs evil is not the only issue, then America will continue to have the problems it feels it has.

[Nick]

And that's the problem with the Middle East - that some sort of action is necessary is fairly clear. Figuring out what action is appropriate is the hard part.

This does not answer the fact that America has no clear Idea of what to do after the war. While there is no doubt that Saddam must go, America is treating a symptom, not the cause. Unless the USA works out in its own mind that simple good vs evil is not the only issue, then America will continue to have the problems it feels it has.

I agree - and appropriate action is that which actually has some hope of achieving lasting global good (as opposed to temporary domestic American political good)

[Stuart Mackey]

And that's the problem with the Middle East - that some sort of action is necessary is fairly clear. Figuring out what action is appropriate is the hard part.

This does not answer the fact that America has no clear Idea of what to do after the war. While there is no doubt that Saddam must go, America is treating a symptom, not the cause. Unless the USA works out in its own mind that simple good vs evil is not the only issue, then America will continue to have the problems it feels it has.

I agree - and appropriate action is that which actually has some hope of achieving lasting global good (as opposed to temporary domestic American political good)

Agreed.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I knew it! Wal-Mart is a secret orginzation to overthrow the American Establishment and take over the world!

Yep. I used to work for them...and still do, incognito.

(Calls out the Wal-Mart Cashier Assassins on Bean.)

*Calls out the Wal-Mart Greeter assisans on Anteduvilan and Bean* They're even more ly.

I Wal-Mart. I used to think they were okay, by one visit changed my opinion. The aisles were narrow, there was always some cart of random items blocking an aisle, the ceiling was tiled, so the store felt small, the selection of electronic media sucked, and the woman at the checkout counter was slow. NOt only that, there are 5 Wal-Marts in my county alone, and they're causing traffic problems and using up space. And my county isn't all that big, in size and population. It's not like they have in Texas, where counties are bigger than Rhode Island.

[Tsyroc]

Three of the top 10 are the sons of Sam Walton, aka, Mr. Wal-Mart.

I knew it! Wal-Mart is a secret orginzation to overthrow the American Establishment and take over the world!

Yep. I used to work for them...and still do, incognito.

(Calls out the Wal-Mart Cashier Assassins on Bean.)

I bet you were just hanging out there hoping that Natalie Portman was living in your store like one of those not Wars movies she was in.