Satan

[The Dark]

Don't see the evil? Well, let's see...

We've got genocide on a global scale. (The flood)

If taken literally, as opposed to a large flood in the region of Babylon (which is what most scholars believe it was). Even if it was the killing of the vast majority of people, it was technically not genocide since Noah and his family (same race as the dead) survived. I will agree that it was mass killing, but the people were said to be truly horrible people, and I could not see how allowing a nation of (as an example) Jeffrey Dahmers would be possible with a just God (everyone's so quick to jump on the love and forget the justice).

And God's right to commit genocide or even mass murder comes from where, exactly?

I don't know, where does the right of the state to execute the death penalty come from? Possibly the fact that criminals need to be punished, and sometimes there is no politically correct way to do this?

The "God-sactioned" destruction of all heathens along the hebrews' path to Canaan.

I presume you mean the wars against the nations that attacked the Hebrews?

And that confers the right to exterminate those nations in toto?

If it is a matter of destroy or be destroyed, yes. Pretty morals may all be fine and good, but they won't keep your enemy from committing genocide on you.

The tourture of Job and the destruction of every earthly thing he owned or loved, just to prove what an obedient follower Job was.

Oh, you mean when Satan persecuted Job to attempt to get him to renounce God. God did not act in that at all, until God restored what Job had had and gave him double.

Except that God acted in that whole drama from the beginning. Recall the story? Essentially, it came down to Satan and God having an argument while sharing a pint or two in their favourite corner pub. Satan tells the Almighty "Let's get real, here. The only reason Your people worship You is because You give them all the goodies. Well, see that poor fuck down there? (points to Job) Fiver says that if You turn his life to shit, he curses You before the year's out".

To which God puts his cash on the bar and tells Satan "You're ON".

Wrong. God does nothing to Job. Read Job 1:1-12. Job 12: "Then the LORD said to Satan, 'Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!' So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD." I will agree that they made an agreement to see if Job could be convinced that God is evil, but God did not act in it, and as shown, God restored what Satan took away. Satan traditionally was always the Tempter that tried to disprove faith in God.

[pecker]

And let's not forget, Satan only exists and has power because -- get ready for this -- God lets him.

And...?

[data_link]

And let's not forget, Satan only exists and has power because -- get ready for this -- God lets him.

And...?

And this is proof that God is a fucking moron. Of course, you knew that already.

[Patrick Degan]

And God's right to commit genocide or even mass murder comes from where, exactly?

I don't know, where does the right of the state to execute the death penalty come from? Possibly the fact that criminals need to be punished, and sometimes there is no politically correct way to do this?

BZZT —Wrong answer! There is no conceivable equation of scale between executing a criminal and annihilating an entire national population.

If it is a matter of destroy or be destroyed, yes. Pretty morals may all be fine and good, but they won't keep your enemy from committing genocide on you.

In a word, bullshit. Particularly as the Caananites were more or less minding their own business when the Israelites came in. The Israelites also had the option of outbreeding their enemies to maintain a powerful military population and dealing with threats as they came.

Except that God acted in that whole drama from the beginning. Recall the story? Essentially, it came down to Satan and God having an argument while sharing a pint or two in their favourite corner pub. Satan tells the Almighty "Let's get real, here. The only reason Your people worship You is because You give them all the goodies. Well, see that poor fuck down there? (points to Job) Fiver says that if You turn his life to shit, he curses You before the year's out".

To which God puts his cash on the bar and tells Satan "You're ON".

Wrong. God does nothing to Job. Read Job 1:1-12. Job 12: "Then the LORD said to Satan, 'Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!' So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD." I will agree that they made an agreement to see if Job could be convinced that God is evil, but God did not act in it, and as shown, God restored what Satan took away. Satan traditionally was always the Tempter that tried to disprove faith in God.

Right, actually. Whether by direct action or deliberate neglect, God is culpable for Job's life being turned to shit and all to win a challenge. Indeed, God pushed the issue.

About the only modifier to my example would be to restate the bet: "OK, Fiver says that if You let me turn his life to shit, he curses You before the year's out."

And God still puts his cash on the bar and says "You're ON".

[pecker]

And let's not forget, Satan only exists and has power because -- get ready for this -- God lets him.

And...?

And this is proof that God is a fucking moron. Of course, you knew that already.

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

[Durandal]

And let's not forget, Satan only exists and has power because -- get ready for this -- God lets him.

And...?

And ... that makes God directly responsible for all evil on the planet, assuming Satan is the cause of all evil, which is a bad assumption to make.

[pecker]

And let's not forget, Satan only exists and has power because -- get ready for this -- God lets him.

And...?

And ... that makes God directly responsible for all evil on the planet, assuming Satan is the cause of all evil, which is a bad assumption to make.

Here's some random things

1) The Covenant after the flood emans God won't completely destroy man ever again due to their evil nature. This could also apply to Satan.
2) If God destroyed Satan's free will, who says he can't destroy ours too?

Of ourse, this is all assuming Satan is real, which I have my doubts on.

[data_link]

And...?

And this is proof that God is a fucking moron. Of course, you knew that already.

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

Oh he's very real. He exists in the minds of fundies, destroying their ability for rational thought. His presence made possible the dark ages and the spanish inquisition. It was him that nearly destroyed all science and logic in the world, and that has opposed its return every step of the way. The fact that He has no physical substance does not prevent him from being dangerous, and until this mental parisite is eliminated, He will remain so.

[Darth Wong]

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

So? I don't think Aryan genetic supremacy is real either, and that instills a lot of hostility in me too.

[pecker]

And this is proof that God is a fucking moron. Of course, you knew that already.

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

Oh he's very real. He exists in the minds of fundies, destroying their ability for rational thought. His presence made possible the dark ages and the spanish inquisition. It was him that nearly destroyed all science and logic in the world, and that has opposed its return every step of the way. The fact that He has no physical substance does not prevent him from being dangerous, and until this mental parisite is eliminated, He will remain so.

You've got some issues to work out.

Yah know, science, patriotism, and politics nearly brought about the end to the world. Yet they've got a few redeeming qualities. I think you take the internet too seriously. Sure, fundies have a voice online. But very seldom (Georgia excluded) do they have more than a minority voice in the real world.

[pecker]

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

So? I don't think Aryan genetic supremacy is real either, and that instills a lot of hostility in me too.

I see your point.

[Frank Hipper]

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

It's not skyman that makes me hostile, it's the assholes who preach fairytales and tell me how to live my life that do.

[pecker]

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

It's not skyman that makes me hostile, it's the assholes who preach fairytales and tell me how to live my life that do.

The thing is, alot of people direct their hostility (at least in my experience) at the idea rather than the people.

[data_link]

You've got some issues to work out.

Yah know, science, patriotism, and politics nearly brought about the end to the world. Yet they've got a few redeeming qualities. I think you take the internet too seriously. Sure, fundies have a voice online. But very seldom (Georgia excluded) do they have more than a minority voice in the real world.

Patriotism and politics are refuges of stupidity. Stupidity is the single greatest threat to the world's continued existence. Whats wrong with disliking the single greatest refuge of stupidity and willful ignorance on the planet?

[pecker]

You've got some issues to work out.

Yah know, science, patriotism, and politics nearly brought about the end to the world. Yet they've got a few redeeming qualities. I think you take the internet too seriously. Sure, fundies have a voice online. But very seldom (Georgia excluded) do they have more than a minority voice in the real world.

Patriotism and politics are refuges of stupidity. Stupidity is the single greatest threat to the world's continued existence. Whats wrong with disliking the single greatest refuge of stupidity and willful ignorance on the planet?

Medicine can be used to make incurable plagues. Yet it can also be used to cure disease. Physics can be used to create bombs that destroy cities. Yet it can also be used to send men to the moon. Religion has both it's bad and good sides.

And to make such a general statement that patriotism and politics are always bad and always refuges of the stupid is quite a clsoe-minded statement if i ever heard. one. Sure, horrible things have been done in the name of king and country. But patriotism can also help save lives in the face of unrelenting danger.

[pecker]

You've got some issues to work out.

Yah know, science, patriotism, and politics nearly brought about the end to the world. Yet they've got a few redeeming qualities. I think you take the internet too seriously. Sure, fundies have a voice online. But very seldom (Georgia excluded) do they have more than a minority voice in the real world.

Patriotism and politics are refuges of stupidity. Stupidity is the single greatest threat to the world's continued existence. Whats wrong with disliking the single greatest refuge of stupidity and willful ignorance on the planet?

Medicine can be used to make incurable plagues. Yet it can also be used to cure disease. Physics can be used to create bombs that destroy cities. Yet it can also be used to send men to the moon. Religion has both it's bad and good sides.

And to make such a general statement that patriotism and politics are always bad and always refuges of the stupid is quite a clsoe-minded statement if i ever heard. one. Sure, horrible things have been done in the name of king and country. But patriotism can also help save lives in the face of unrelenting danger.

[data_link]

I said they were refuges of stupidity. I didn't say they don't have their uses. Nor did I ever say anything about mainstream religion. The problem with moderate christians on this board is that they insist on standing near the fundies - as a result they are going to get hit in the crossfire. But let this be clear: when I talk about the greatest refuge of stupidity on the planet, I'm aiming at the fundies. Please refrain from making broad, sweeping overgeneralizations about who I'm attacking. Now, if you will kindly get out of the way, I've got some fundies who have an appointment with the business end of a flamethrower.

[Kuja]

I've been hanging by a thread to the RC church. I'll happily help you mow down the fundies.

[pecker]

I said they were refuges of stupidity. I didn't say they don't have their uses. Nor did I ever say anything about mainstream religion. The problem with moderate christians on this board is that they insist on standing near the fundies - as a result they are going to get hit in the crossfire. But let this be clear: when I talk about the greatest refuge of stupidity on the planet, I'm aiming at the fundies. Please refrain from making broad, sweeping overgeneralizations about who I'm attacking. Now, if you will kindly get out of the way, I've got some fundies who have an appointment with the business end of a flamethrower.

Ah, good man

[The Dark]

I said they were refuges of stupidity. I didn't say they don't have their uses. Nor did I ever say anything about mainstream religion. The problem with moderate christians on this board is that they insist on standing near the fundies - as a result they are going to get hit in the crossfire. But let this be clear: when I talk about the greatest refuge of stupidity on the planet, I'm aiming at the fundies. Please refrain from making broad, sweeping overgeneralizations about who I'm attacking. Now, if you will kindly get out of the way, I've got some fundies who have an appointment with the business end of a flamethrower.

Ah, good. I was actually starting to get pissed at you, until you said that. I feel better now that I know you meant to attack the fundies, not us harmless nuts. Have at them, and borrow some of my napalm .

[Durandal]

Here's some random things

1) The Covenant after the flood emans God won't completely destroy man ever again due to their evil nature. This could also apply to Satan.

So, God lets him exist and grants him the kind of power necessary to visit all sorts of evil on men? Please. Furthermore, Lucifer fell before that covenant was made.

Oh, and God intends to break that covenant on Judgment Day, anyway. I don't see him as being very trustworthy.

2) If God destroyed Satan's free will, who says he can't destroy ours too?

If he's omnipotent, I'd assume he can do what he pleases.

Of ourse, this is all assuming Satan is real, which I have my doubts on.

He like God, is a complete fabrication.

[Slartibartfast]

The bible isnt about the struggle between the good god and the evil satan. It is about the struggle between the lawful god, and the chaotic satan. Think about it. the reason satan was thrown out of heaven is because he revolted. He rejected the rule of a vengful deity. He was caste down. then man comes along, and satan gave us knowledge, he "tempted" eve and got her to think for herself. Throughout the bible he is trying to get people to challenge the authority of a tyrannical mass murdering psychopath. Who is truly the evil one?

Good vs Evil? Lawful vs Chaotic?

That's, like, so D&D

[Slartibartfast]

I always find it funny the amount of hostility God instills in atheists, considering they don't think he's real

Oh he's very real. He exists in the minds of fundies, destroying their ability for rational thought. His presence made possible the dark ages and the spanish inquisition. It was him that nearly destroyed all science and logic in the world, and that has opposed its return every step of the way. The fact that He has no physical substance does not prevent him from being dangerous, and until this mental parisite is eliminated, He will remain so.

You've got some issues to work out.

Yah know, science, patriotism, and politics nearly brought about the end to the world. Yet they've got a few redeeming qualities. I think you take the internet too seriously. Sure, fundies have a voice online. But very seldom (Georgia excluded) do they have more than a minority voice in the real world.

You KNOW it's just a show, RIGHT?
Damn, wrong thread...

[neoolong]

The bible isnt about the struggle between the good god and the evil satan. It is about the struggle between the lawful god, and the chaotic satan. Think about it. the reason satan was thrown out of heaven is because he revolted. He rejected the rule of a vengful deity. He was caste down. then man comes along, and satan gave us knowledge, he "tempted" eve and got her to think for herself. Throughout the bible he is trying to get people to challenge the authority of a tyrannical mass murdering psychopath. Who is truly the evil one?

Good vs Evil? Lawful vs Chaotic?

That's, like, so D&D

Really, it sounded to me like Babylon 5. The whole thing was about fucking with sentients to solve the dispute between order vs. chaos.

[NecronLord]

Satan gives knowlege [of Good and Evil]

[said]knowledge is good

Satan, therefore is good.