This is why history is important.

[wautd]

I always here people saying that there is no logical, moral, or real reason to study history. THere is no use for it. It's a liberal arts, "fluff subject."

I would disagree. I think it's very important, and this is why:

I like communism, its just that it was hijack by fascist like Stalin

thats where it went wrong. The Lenin Communism was great though. Im probably going to join a communist club when i get into college

These are our future, and hardly anyone gives a shit about history anymore. WTF did he learn in school? Probably nothing, since kids don't give a shit about history.

It's very dismal.

yeah Lenin was a saint. He killed slightly less people than Stalin

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

The level of ignorance displayed by the common man is surreal to most. All my friends don't know who Lenin was(Oh, but they know John Lennon), or Stalin, or anything. The smartest girl I know asked me who the vice president of the US was.

It's like the "Talking to Americans" bit on 22 Minutes(For those who don't know, Rick Mercer goes around in these talking to Americans about whether Canada's war with Russia is underpublicized, congratulating Canada for legalizing VCRs, etc.): Most people just believe whatever they're fed and don't care enough to actually learn the facts.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Seriously, if this is the kind of behavior that the extreme left will exibit in the years to come, I may very well start to call myself a conservative in the future.

But like you said, this is the extreme left. Both extremes have the problems. You have wacky leftwing authoritarian or communitarians, and you got your wacky rightwing authoritarians and communitarians.

Some Liberal ideas are kinda crazy, but I think they are good overall. It's ludicrous that they would assume that the police intentionally tried to kill a minority. They ought to look at the research first. Why would you call yourself a conservative due to the actions of an extreme political ideology?

It's like the "Talking to Americans" bit on 22 Minutes(For those who don't know, Rick Mercer goes around in these talking to Americans about whether Canada's war with Russia is underpublicized, congratulating Canada for legalizing VCRs, etc.): Most people just believe whatever they're fed and don't care enough to actually learn the facts.

Somtimes I don't know if those programs are real, but when you get people you meet in real life, who aren't on camera, to say the same thing, then it's a bit disturbing.

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

The only legitimate form of Communism I can think of is that practiced (mixed) by what I believe are called the Arara in the jungle. They were such a happy people, sharing, caring, collectivising. Of course, this was a community with a population of about 300 or so people, and everyone livedin a relatively harsh environment with a stake in each other's sucess.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Apparently there is a game show that is centered around interviewing people off the street about what should be common knowledge about history, science, etc. A friend explained it to me. Apparently the contestants have to guess what the dumbest answers will be, or something like that.

I believe that show is called Streetsmarts or something. It's about as addicting as Jerry Springer and it will make you feel like a tremendous person. It's a brilliant idea: they stole Jay Leno's Jaywalking sketch and made a gameshow out of guessing which tard is the dumbest. Try to avoid it unless you want to get hooked/shout at the TV that some people shouldn't be allowed to breed.

[Franc28]

Anyone who doesn't understand why communism is evil, is an imbecile. It has nothing to do with history.

History is used to enforce racial and nationalist prejudice. History is used as nationalist indoctrination - as you probably know, history textbooks are packed with propaganda. History is used to justify and perpetuate war and hatred from childhood. Anyone who thinks history can be used to good ends has a lot of explaining away to do.

[Imperial Overlord]

Hello troll.

[Falkenhayn]

Anyone who doesn't understand why communism is evil, is an imbecile. It has nothing to do with history.

History is used to enforce racial and nationalist prejudice. History is used as nationalist indoctrination - as you probably know, history textbooks are packed with propaganda.

No. History is abused and distorted to provide a basis for those ideals. When one is forced to teach certain material by school boards and governments as part of a mandated curriculum, then, in the school environment, there is no legal alternative.

History is used to justify and perpetuate war and hatred from childhood. Anyone who thinks history can be used to good ends has a lot of explaining away to do.

How about combatting the ignorance you have described with real scholarship that produces the facts you need to shred the bullshit?

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

In a way, History can be biased, yes, but there are biases in everything. Some people say there are biases where no biases exist in the first place. It really depends on the ideology.

I get people who tell me that mainstream history and most texts and college curriculae are wrong, because they are all liberal historians.

[fgalkin]

Apparently there is a game show that is centered around interviewing people off the street about what should be common knowledge about history, science, etc. A friend explained it to me. Apparently the contestants have to guess what the dumbest answers will be, or something like that.

I believe that show is called Streetsmarts or something. It's about as addicting as Jerry Springer and it will make you feel like a tremendous person. It's a brilliant idea: they stole Jay Leno's Jaywalking sketch and made a gameshow out of guessing which tard is the dumbest. Try to avoid it unless you want to get hooked/shout at the TV that some people shouldn't be allowed to breed.

I thoiught I was the only one who watched that. Thank go I'm not alone.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Petrosjko]

It's like the "Talking to Americans" bit on 22 Minutes(For those who don't know, Rick Mercer goes around in these talking to Americans about whether Canada's war with Russia is underpublicized, congratulating Canada for legalizing VCRs, etc.): Most people just believe whatever they're fed and don't care enough to actually learn the facts.

Canada legalized VCRs? Sweet. In twenty years you'll have DVDs!

Who are these people running around saying that nobody should study any history whatsoever? I'd like to know who they are, because when someone triumphantly disproves their case, it would be nice to know that the case itself existed in the first place.

Here ya go.

History is used to enforce racial and nationalist prejudice. History is used as nationalist indoctrination - as you probably know, history textbooks are packed with propaganda. History is used to justify and perpetuate war and hatred from childhood. Anyone who thinks history can be used to good ends has a lot of explaining away to do.

Frankly, I don't even know where to start. The blithe ignorance on display is just overwhelming.

[Big Phil]

In a way, History can be biased, yes, but there are biases in everything. Some people say there are biases where no biases exist in the first place. It really depends on the ideology.

I get people who tell me that mainstream history and most texts and college curriculae are wrong, because they are all liberal historians.

Have you ever heard the expression: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." In my experience, college is an opportunity for professors to influence impressionable young minds with whatever drivel they choose to teach. Some professors are very dedicated to making sure their students are learning, while others just want mindless drones who share their own opinion.

In any case, most of these young communists, socialists, etc., learn pretty quickly once they leave college that their own personal beliefs amount to jack squat in the business world, because money makes the world go 'round, not mindless devotion to a dying political philosophy.

[Nick Lancaster]

History is used to enforce racial and nationalist prejudice. History is used as nationalist indoctrination - as you probably know, history textbooks are packed with propaganda. History is used to justify and perpetuate war and hatred from childhood. Anyone who thinks history can be used to good ends has a lot of explaining away to do.

Right. So we can discard the lessons learned from the Japanese Internment, or from HUAC and the McCarthy Era, because it's just perpetuating war and hatred. The Japs clearly deserved to be locked up, and there were Commies all over America, from Hollywood to the deli on the corner of 5th Avenue. (Maybe you should hang out with Ann Coulter, she thinks Tailgunner Joe was a Great American Hero.)

Would you care to now tell us that Hitler was really a nice guy, and he was just maligned in the history books? That the Holocaust was Nazi Germany's right to self-determination, and the history books are painting folks as undeserving villains?

Maybe we should just disband groups like the Centers for Disease Control and let SARS, AIDS, and other fun things like bovine spongiform encephalopathy spread ... we certainly don't need lessons from history in regards to improving the health of the populace.

Do you want to take a shot at justifying your moronic diatribe, or are you happy with your current cranial-rectal alignment?

[Coyote]

Don't waste time with Franc28. He's been here before as a drooling troll. His kind want people nice and ignorant so we'll forget the horrors we should learn from.

That said, PFC Brungardt hit one nail on th ehead-- when World War Two becomes a comparison of "Concentration Camp, Concentration Camp, who's got the biggest ConcentrationCamp?" and totally ignores the other political realities and maneuverings going on behind it.. well, it is JAPCH: just another PC hijack.

And WW1 is totally ignored, as are the Napoleonic wars. Sad.

[That NOS Guy]

And WW1 is totally ignored, as are the Napoleonic wars. Sad.

Yeah it really is. I mean, is it just because they didn't involve non-combat deaths to a staggering degree? World War I and the Napolenic wars are just as, if not more important then World War II, not as destructive.

Then again, they may consider the political forces and events too complicated for the average person, which is quite disheartening. I was reading this thread a few days ago and decided to quiz some of my co-workers. People in their early 20's should know what happened (or at least the basic "slavery caused the Civil War" answer) during the Civil War right? 6 different people, not one had a clue. One even answered "I like war so I don't read about it." Nice people, just horrifyingly ignorant.

This is even worse then the black guys who I work with going "Whose Jim Crow?"

[Rogue 9]

Anyone who doesn't understand why communism is evil, is an imbecile.

True.

It has nothing to do with history.

Actually, given that Marxist theory is predicated upon a flawed analysis of the flow of history, yes it does.

History is used to enforce racial and nationalist prejudice. History is used as nationalist indoctrination - as you probably know, history textbooks are packed with propaganda. History is used to justify and perpetuate war and hatred from childhood. Anyone who thinks history can be used to good ends has a lot of explaining away to do.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana

If propaganda is dressed up and called history, that doesn't make it so. Your issue is with propaganda, not history, which, by definition, is simply the record of past events. If distortions and falsehoods are called history, that doesn't make them historical because they don't fit the definition of such. Now how about you go buy a clue?

[Falkenhayn]

Don't waste your time Rogue. I tried already. I doubt very much he will address these rebuttals.

[Firefox]

By Franc's logic, evolution shouldn't be taught because it's "used for evil purposes".

There isn't a rolleye emoticon big enough for his stupidity.

[Nick Lancaster]

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana

As the quote from the Babylon 5 episode, 'Infection,' goes:

"It seems no one reads Santayana anymore."

[Coyote]

And WW1 is totally ignored, as are the Napoleonic wars. Sad.

Yeah it really is. I mean, is it just because they didn't involve non-combat deaths to a staggering degree? World War I and the Napolenic wars are just as, if not more important then World War II, not as destructive.

I think we'll see World War 2 begin to slide off the awareness radar too, before long. As the last living veterans of the war and the Holocaust die off, the living memory will fade and gradually all that will be left is stories.

[Firefox]

I'd agree that WWI and the Napoleonic wars are ignored, especially in the US. I wonder what the "French are a bunch of surrendering cowards" types would say if one were to inform them of Verdun and the Somme.

[Queeb Salaron]

I'd agree that WWI and the Napoleonic wars are ignored, especially in the US. I wonder what the "French are a bunch of surrendering cowards" types would say if one were to inform them of Verdun and the Somme.

I heard an interesting summation of WWI in an english class once:

"They all fought over land, and bombed it flat. Then it started to get muddy. And they'd advance 100 feet, and then retreat, and advance a hundred feet, and then retreat, all the while sitting in their mudholes and trying not to get gassed. And it went on like this for quite some time.

"Then they invented tanks. And the rest is history."


I thought it was rather clever.

[Xenophobe3691]

I'd agree that WWI and the Napoleonic wars are ignored, especially in the US. I wonder what the "French are a bunch of surrendering cowards" types would say if one were to inform them of Verdun and the Somme.

You mean the origin of the expression "Taking French Leave"?

[The Yosemite Bear]

Two summers ago...

Fundy Chick: What are you reading?
Me: dreadnaught by Massie, it's about the naval arms race, and the factors that lead up to The first world war.
fundie chick: why don't you read something uplifting like the bible?
Me: I've read the bible(Catholic, king james, and orthodox), the 'gita, the Qoran, and translations of the Jewish texts, already, I perfer to either entertain myself or read something I haven't before.
her: there's other versions of the bible?
Me: yeah, it was primarily framed into two different versions for the holy roman empire, and the byzantine empire when the Romans were still in charge, deleting everything that didn't fit their political goals as heresy, however excavations in egypt have uncovered many of the early supressed texts.
Her: no it was written by god.
I look at her squarly: your copy says "KING JAMES VERSION", your telling me that a monarch known for brutally repressing those who didn't share his views, wasn't capable of re-writting histories and religious texts?

[Kitsune]

Two summers ago...

Fundy Chick: What are you reading?
Me: dreadnaught by Massie, it's about the naval arms race, and the factors that lead up to The first world war.
fundie chick: why don't you read something uplifting like the bible?
Me: I've read the bible(Catholic, king james, and orthodox), the 'gita, the Qoran, and translations of the Jewish texts, already, I perfer to either entertain myself or read something I haven't before.
her: there's other versions of the bible?
Me: yeah, it was primarily framed into two different versions for the holy roman empire, and the byzantine empire when the Romans were still in charge, deleting everything that didn't fit their political goals as heresy, however excavations in egypt have uncovered many of the early supressed texts.
Her: no it was written by god.
I look at her squarly: your copy says "KING JAMES VERSION", your telling me that a monarch known for brutally repressing those who didn't share his views, wasn't capable of re-writting histories and religious texts?

Pretty good answer probably will not work though
I was talking a co-worker about studying and he kept answering several time about "Studying the Bible" and I have yet to figure out how anybody can study the bible and feel good about it.