How are catholics not christians?

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Slight nitpick: if you have accepted Jesus, you don't go to hell; you get Purgatory. Heaven doesn't require good works, persay -- those just help you get there faster.

Or, as my English professor lectured, if you are a calvanist (oddly, some still exist), even if you believe in god/jesus as your savior, you migh still go to hell, because you might not be one of the elect. TULIP. Apparently, the limited atonement doesn't apply to all believers.

[Tychu]

The prodestant fundies want to exclude everyone from christianity that do not share their asinine doctrines. Catholics are the largest Christian denomination. The fundies are, as ever, full of shit.

im a Catholic, i dont know any other Catholics who dont consider themselved Christians

[Lord Zentei]

Which is absurd because the Core of the Church teachings was/is/will be the Nicene Creed which defines the theoligical beliefs of most Christian churches.

<snippa>
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the
Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds
from the Father and the Son.
<snippa>

Heresy! Heresy!!!

[Crown]

Which is absurd because the Core of the Church teachings was/is/will be the Nicene Creed which defines the theoligical beliefs of most Christian churches.

<snippa>
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the
Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds
from the Father and the Son.
<snippa>

Heresy! Heresy!!!

Darn tootin'!

[HemlockGrey]

Arianism forever!

[fgalkin]

Arianism forever!

Yeah, but the only Arians today are Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you really want to support them?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Glimmervoid]

Catholics are Christians. The only people who say that are not are rabid fundamentalists like Chick&Co.

He's exactly right. I took western religions in college. Think of Christianity as a coin; on one side are the Catholics and on the other are the protestants.

And where do everyone else fit in?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

The Orthodox Church is the second biggest Christian sect. After the catholic and before the protestant churches (combined).

[EmperorSolo51]

Which is absurd because the Core of the Church teachings was/is/will be the Nicene Creed which defines the theoligical beliefs of most Christian churches.

<snippa>
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the
Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds
from the Father and the Son.
<snippa>

Heresy! Heresy!!!

It's not Heresy in my opinion, as the Creed says that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and The son. This means that Holy spirit comes from the same source, meaning that Jesus and God are one and the same.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Oh my God, you people are actually re-arguing the Filioque controversy.

[Rye]

General reasons some christians don't view catholics as christians:

• -Prayer to Mary as "the Queen of Heaven"
  -Mary remaining a virgin
  -Prayer to Saints.
  -Priests being celibate
  -Priests being the only people that can interpret scripture
  -Latin only bibles and masses, and all the other catholic rituals
  -Idolatry (kneeling before golden crucifixes and stuff)
  -calling the priests "father"
  -Not giving the communion wine to everyone, keeping it for priests
  -Religious holidays
  -Baptism
  -original sin

[Surlethe]

General reasons some christians don't view catholics as christians:

• -Priests being the only people that can interpret scripture
  -Latin only bibles and masses, and all the other catholic rituals

I can safely say these two, at least, aren't practised anymore, and some of the others are shit accusations anyway, but I don't have the time to rebut them.

[Luzifer's right hand]

-Priests being the only people that can interpret scripture
-Latin only bibles and masses, and all the other catholic rituals

That was changed long ago.

-calling the priests "father"

That's a regional thing afaik, they don't do that where I live.

-Religious holidays

There are protestant holidays, at least in Germany and Austria.

[Lord Sabre Ace]

-Religious holidays

What do you mean by religious holidays? If you mean special days with special services like Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, etc, the Lutheran Church has those as well.

[wolveraptor]

Wait, you're saying Protestant Churches don't celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday? Christ-fucking-mas?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

General reasons some christians don't view catholics as christians:

• -Prayer to Mary as "the Queen of Heaven"
  -Priests being the only people that can interpret scripture
  -Latin only bibles and masses, and all the other catholic rituals
  -Idolatry (kneeling before golden crucifixes and stuff)
  -Not giving the communion wine to everyone, keeping it for priests
  -original sin

As a former Roman Catholic, I can say that none of these are practised in modern ceremonies. No prayers refer to Mary as the queen, only as the holy-mother of-Jesus-who-is-without-sin. Many people are allowed to interpret scripture, and we do have those jesuits working for us. This "latin-only services" is just crap. We speak in plain english, sir. The idolatry is debatable, as we do not bow before these "golden crucifixes" you refer to, nor do we worship "stuff". Communion wine is given to everyone who receives the wafers, and not once have I heard the words "original sin" in any homily given by our priests.

[Darth Servo]

Although the RCC can claim to be the direct descendant of the Western Catholic Church, and trace their origin to St. Peter, and thus claim to be the "original" Christians, their claims, are IMO, bullshit. James, not Peter was the first "Pope" at the Council of Jerusalem, so they have as much claim to being "true" and "original" Chirstians as any of the Orthodox Churches.

Never mind that the apostle John was supposedly still writing his books in the 90s and thus writing scripture when there were supposedly other people in the role of Pope at the time. Wouldn't writing scripture be reserved for the Pope?

[Darth Servo]

General reasons some christians don't view catholics as christians:

The main reason I've heard from fundies for why Catholics aren't Christian is the use of saints (including Mary). Whats the difference between that and angels?

[Lord Sabre Ace]

Wait, you're saying Protestant Churches don't celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday? Christ-fucking-mas?

We celebrate Christmas.

[Darth Servo]

Wait, you're saying Protestant Churches don't celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday? Christ-fucking-mas?

We celebrate Christmas.

Its just not required for salvation like the Holy days in Catholicism supposedly are.

[Adept]

General reasons some christians don't view catholics as christians:

The main reason I've heard from fundies for why Catholics aren't Christian is the use of saints (including Mary). Whats the difference between that and angels?

I believe its because angels are believed to have started as "divine" in existence, while saints were just humans, albeit remarkably good humans in the eyes of God.

Also, the whole argument seems silly. As a Catholic, it seems absurd to me. "Christianity" implies "Christ" and I can sure as hell tell you that Catholics follow Christ. So other than being a different way of worshipping, why should anyone logically believe Catholics aren't Christian?

[wautd]

How different is catholicism from christianity?

As far as I know, Catholics believe you have to live a good life to go to Heaven. Protestants believe you just have to accepet Jasus as you savior.

Wow, if only I was raised as a Protestant instead of a Catholic. Much easier to go to heaven that way

[Spoonist]

How different is catholicism from christianity?

As far as I know, Catholics believe you have to live a good life to go to Heaven. Protestants believe you just have to accepet Jasus as you savior.

Wow, if only I was raised as a Protestant instead of a Catholic. Much easier to go to heaven that way

Nah, not really. It just says that everyone sins and thus everyone will go to purgatory before going to heaven. Thus everyone is destined for divine torture to attone their sins. With your sins determining the length and method of torture.

[Crown]

Which is absurd because the Core of the Church teachings was/is/will be the Nicene Creed which defines the theoligical beliefs of most Christian churches.

Heresy! Heresy!!!

It's not Heresy in my opinion, as the Creed says that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and The son. This means that Holy spirit comes from the same source, meaning that Jesus and God are one and the same.

It is heresey. It perverts the theological teaching of the Gospel and the Undivided Church (John 15,26; Acts 2,33);

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Oh my God, you people are actually re-arguing the Filioque controversy.

Come on Duchess, the RCC and the OXC are the two last remaining remnants of the Roman Empire - sad as that is - join in and have some fun!

[Cairber]

General reasons some christians don't view catholics as christians:

• -Prayer to Mary as "the Queen of Heaven"
  -Priests being the only people that can interpret scripture
  -Latin only bibles and masses, and all the other catholic rituals
  -Idolatry (kneeling before golden crucifixes and stuff)
  -Not giving the communion wine to everyone, keeping it for priests
  -original sin

and not once have I heard the words "original sin" in any homily given by our priests.

Have you ever been to a baptism?

[Rye]

All of you note I did only say "some" protestant churches, and I'm talking about the more anticatholic fundies than the saner splinter groups like anglicans and lutherans. I'm not saying I agree with them all, I'm just saying this is what they'll say.

-Priests being the only people that can interpret scripture
-Latin only bibles and masses, and all the other catholic rituals

That was changed long ago.

-calling the priests "father"

That's a regional thing afaik, they don't do that where I live.

It is:

Similarly (we may notice in passing) the name "Father", which originally belonged to bishops, has been as it were delegated to priests, especially as ministers of the Sacrament of Penance. it is now a form of address to all priests in Spain, in Ireland, and, of recent years, in England and the United States.

However, the anticatholic can then post:

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." -Matthew 23:9

-Religious holidays

There are protestant holidays, at least in Germany and Austria.

Yes, but chances are those protestants don't consider catholics unchristian. The fundies that claim the catholic church is unchristian would consider the assimilation of pagan culture as a bad thing, perverting the holy blah blah blah.

As for idolatry, as IF that doesn't happen. There's graven images all over the fucking place in catholic churches, of things both earthly and heavenly. So the fundies will appeal to, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" -Exodus 20:4, and well, they have a point on that one.

Original sin definately IS a doctrine.