Does anyone deserve hell?

[jareth1138]

Now that I have though out it a bit more, I pull my statement that video game makers and Telemarkers should go to hell. While some of what they make and do can be "considered" distasteful I realize now that it was inappriopriate of me to say such things. They might be the destined for the hall of shame and stupidity for thinking they could make money off things as annoying or distastefull, but hell I really don't think so anymore.
Then again politicians who make lots of promises to reach office and then think their always right without fufilling promises and being idiotic are another story, for example, Bush and Jack Thompson (not a politician, but deserves to go to hell anyway)

[Lord of the Abyss]

No. A finite being cannot deserve infinite punishment.

[Enforcer Talen]

What do you think? The hell i'm talking about here is the standard christian hell, IE burning for all eternity, all alone.

No. Torture is unacceptable.

[Anguirus]

Intellectually and morally? No.

On a purely visceral level, I like to think of the utter bastards of history being eternally punished. I think that's why the concept has endured for so long. A desire to see those you believe to be evil suffer is, I believe, human nature.

[Alliance SpecForceTrooper]

Actually, I believe Hell in Christianity simply means the absence of God, after knowing that there is in fact one. Its the Fallen Angels that go to Perdition (burning forever or whatnot). All the eternal suffering shit is stuff that came along later, I believe.

Given that, yes, I think there are some people would deserve an existence without God (if there was one).

[Metatwaddle]

If that's indeed true (that hell = the absence of God) then I'll take Hell over Heaven any day. I doubt I'm the only one.

[Anguirus]

I believe Hell in Christianity simply means the absence of God

Depends on the Christians. My Methodist friends believe this...fundies don't.

[felineki]

As someone who makes video games as a hobby, I say "screw you", jareth1138.

[Metatwaddle]

Actually, I believe Hell in Christianity simply means the absence of God, after knowing that there is in fact one. Its the Fallen Angels that go to Perdition (burning forever or whatnot). All the eternal suffering shit is stuff that came along later, I believe.

I don't think so. Thessalonians 1:8-9 says, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction." Flaming fire... everlasting destruction... sounds like more than the absence of God to me. Also, Mark 9:43-44 says, "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Sounds like fire to me.

There's a good page about the nature of Hell here at the Skeptic's Annotated Bible website. That's where I'm getting my Bible quotes from. The SAB tries to say that the Bible's unclear on Hell, but the quotes in favor of Hell's existence seem to be a lot more relevant and convincing than the ones that just say "The wicked will perish" and such.

(When I say convincing, of course, I mean they convince me that if there's a coherent agreement in the Bible about hell, it is that it exists and involves fire. It doesn't mean they convince me that Hell exists.)

[Darth Servo]

There's a good page about the nature of Hell here at the Skeptic's Annotated Bible website. That's where I'm getting my Bible quotes from. The SAB tries to say that the Bible's unclear on Hell, but the quotes in favor of Hell's existence seem to be a lot more relevant and convincing than the ones that just say "The wicked will perish" and such.

(When I say convincing, of course, I mean they convince me that if there's a coherent agreement in the Bible about hell, it is that it exists and involves fire. It doesn't mean they convince me that Hell exists.)

And even the descriptions of 'hell' are not consistant. Some verses describe it as the traditional "lake of fire" (Matt 18:8-9 for example) others describe it as "outer darkness" (Matt 22:13). How can a lake of fire be dark? Is it burning on of those substances that doesn't produce light?

[Solauren]

I'd always been told that you only went to hell for a length of time in accordance to your sins so...
in that context, some people deserve hell. I'd happily send Hitler to hell for 100 years per person killed as a result of World War 2 (by either side). That's what, 6,000,000,000 billion years?

However, for all Eternity?

Eternity is a rather open ended concept in and of itself. It time truely is eternal, then no.

[wautd]

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and a bunch of other massmurderers belongs in hell.

...which is the only reason I actually wished there was a hell

[Ender]

Actually, I believe Hell in Christianity simply means the absence of God, after knowing that there is in fact one. Its the Fallen Angels that go to Perdition (burning forever or whatnot). All the eternal suffering shit is stuff that came along later, I believe.

Given that, yes, I think there are some people would deserve an existence without God (if there was one).

That's what Rome put out post Vat 2; but the bible makes it clear its a pit of fire and pain and suckage.

[Gandalf]

I think eternity is too long for any crime. Billions of years for assorted bad guys sounds fine, but not eternity.

[jareth1138]

Felineki, I am sorry if I offended you, I made my post really without think and I accept the responsibility of my mistake. Although I did pull my original statement back, I will hereby pull all of my statements back,
My apologies.

[bekeleven]

No.

There is only one version of afterlife for the bad that I like: The House of Clay. This, from an Atheist.

[wolveraptor]

House of Clay?

Personally, I like the idea of becoming a God in the afterlife: the better you are, the more powerful you'll be, with the low end being the mortal Aesir, and high end being YHWH. An evil d00d, like Hitler, would be denied Godship and basically live a repeat of Earthly life. Knowing that so much more is possible, it'd be like hell.

[CoyoteNature]

I think eternity's far to long a time for anyone to be punished for, it just wouldn't have much of point.

Besides that whole hell thing is just because we are limited, think things like murder or rape or even genoicide should have a punishment forever. Don't think anyone understands what forever means, it's longer then a century(to some thats a long time), longer then a eon(lifetime of the longest lived civilization), longer then a aeon (length of our species).

I think a thousand years would be too much, people change in a century, completely different from what they were, there is no eternal anything when it comes to people given the right environmental conditions and enough time for it to matter.

I think a hundred years ahead, a thousand, million, billion, trillion, will any of it really be all that important anyway?

It's just petty.

[Wyrm]

Although my viceral instincts for vengence scream that some very unpleasant persons deserve hell, infinite damage cannot be wrought with finite means, and finite damage cannot deserve infinite pain and suffering and suckitude, which is hell.

Purgatory, maybe.

[Sean Gray]

Actually, I believe Hell in Christianity simply means the absence of God, after knowing that there is in fact one. Its the Fallen Angels that go to Perdition (burning forever or whatnot). All the eternal suffering shit is stuff that came along later, I believe.

I don't think so. Thessalonians 1:8-9 says, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction." Flaming fire... everlasting destruction... sounds like more than the absence of God to me. Also, Mark 9:43-44 says, "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Sounds like fire to me.

There's a good page about the nature of Hell here at the Skeptic's Annotated Bible website. That's where I'm getting my Bible quotes from. The SAB tries to say that the Bible's unclear on Hell, but the quotes in favor of Hell's existence seem to be a lot more relevant and convincing than the ones that just say "The wicked will perish" and such.

(When I say convincing, of course, I mean they convince me that if there's a coherent agreement in the Bible about hell, it is that it exists and involves fire. It doesn't mean they convince me that Hell exists.)

Alliance SpecForceTrooper is right. The lakes of fire and brimstone and "outer darkness" are just metaphors for the torment of hell. In reality, our human minds can't really comprehend the true meaning of hell, just as we can't comprehend heaven, or God for that matter.

Hell is the absence of God. And this is worse than any fire or darkness. We can't imagine what existance without God is like because we've lived in his presence our entire lives. It would be like trying to explain to a fish what it's like to live on dry land. His tiny little fishy brain can't even wrap itself around the meaning of dry, much less understand life in a complete absence of water.

The fact is that God doesn't separate us from Him. We're the ones that do the separating. If you've spent your entire life in defiance of God, in becoming evil, in turning away from good, you won't even be able to stand in His presence. Your corrupted, naked soul couldn't take it.

Someone once put it to me like this: Imagine if you were a baby in your mother's womb. Now imagine that you were capable of controlling every facet of your pre-natal development (instead of just letting nature do it for you). You can control your skin's pigmentation, the rate at which you metabolize food, the sensitivity of you eyes, etc. What would happen if you spent all your time in the womb not preparing for life on the outside, but in accomodating yourself to living in darkness? When you came out and found you couldn't stand in the sun for more than a minute without your skin burning off, would it be the sun's fault or yours? And when you have to live in your parent's basement for the rest of your life, who's to blame?

This page, I think, explains it better than I ever could.

[Darth Servo]

Hell is the absence of God. And this is worse than any fire or darkness. We can't imagine what existance without God is like because we've lived in his presence our entire lives.

I imagine most of the members of this board would be HAPPY do describe what life is like without God in it and LIKE it that way.

[Sean Gray]

This is a thread about whether or not anyone deserves hell. For the purposes of the discussion I should think that the existance of God would be assumed.

[Wyrm]

This is a thread about whether or not anyone deserves hell. For the purposes of the discussion I should think that the existance of God would be assumed.

Only if your definition of 'Hell' is "separation from God." If 'Hell' means suckitude for eternity, that is a concept that doesn't specifically require God (though usually wrapped up in the same package).

BTW, welcome to SD.Net, Mr. Gray.

[Morilore]

Sean Gray:

The hell i'm talking about here is the standard christian hell, IE burning for all eternity, all alone.

Emphasis mine.

[Sean Gray]

Yeah, I noticed that first post. I thought maybe the fiery hell Necron was talking about was of the metaphorical type that I mentioned. Still, my argument stands. Just replace "separation from God" with "separation from God...and also fiery pitchfork rape."