Happiness

[R. U. Serious]

This guy:
http://www.dukespiritualityandhealth.or ... oenig.html

has done several studies, and has maanged to be quoted and referred to in documentaries: http://www.dukespiritualityandhealth.org/newsmedia/


As becomes obvious from the short descriptions of the studies, you very quickly could end up measuring something else than you intended to. A lot of the studies there for example equate "religiousness" with the frequency of attendance of church services. Then the question becomes what to these other people do (those that do not participate in such services) - do they als attend large social gatherings regularly with other, like-minded people? Are the effects then (if there is any causality at all, that is!), from belief, or are they merely from the social intermingling with like-minded people?

To them, everything that occurs in the universe has some purpose to it, and there's an omnipotent parental figure to tell them right from wrong, and to protect them from the world.

Knowing that something has purpose does not make you happier. Especially if you do not see any connection whatsoever between the purpose on the one hand and and the event that happened on the other hand. That's even something that leads many people to question or doubt their faith.

They always have to fear misbehaving for fear of punishment from said being, but they also know that no matter how bad they fuck up, their omnipotent parental figure will forgive them.

So, you're saying that a person that is constantly in fear of being punished for mistakes is happier, because it knows their will be also be forgiveness. Where as people that do not fear such artificial punishment will be less happy. Seems backwards to me.

Atheists, conversely, believe in a universe that will act in accordance with strict laws and rules, and that doesn't have the ability to give a damn about us at all. We're here to look after ourselves, and each other, and there is no guarantee of forgiveness if we fuck up.

The forgiveness or guarantuees that you are talking about do not have any effect on reality - you're aware of that right? So as long as those people live in the same reality that atheists live in, the only difference will be, that they will be constantly disappointed, because their prayers go unanswered and the shit happens to them as it does to atheists. Let me ask you a question: Were those people after Katrina better off, that knew they had to care of themselves, because government reaction would be incompetent or non-existant - or were those people happier, that believed the government would take adequate action that would relieve their situation in a reasonable manner and then got sh*t from the government?

just that there's less comfort in a universe devoid of care and concern than there is in one where you believe someone's looking out for you

Actually you could argue the opposite as well. Knowing that the world is only as good as we people make it, it could be incredibly more fulfilling if you lead a life that is geared towards trying to improving the world/society you live in. Whereas putting your hand in your lap, and praying that the improvements just magically happen will only lead to disappointment and make your happiness dependent on things outside of your control.

To clarify, I am not suggestin that I actually believe that this is the case, just that there can be an equally plausbile argument made in both, opposite cases.

[l33telboi]

According to what source?

Actually i saw a documentary on this as well. People who are very religious seem to be happier then the average person. But then why wouldn't they be? They 'know' they are loved by the most powerful beign in the universe and they 'know' that they are justified in everything they think, do and believe.

What i really found interesting was that according to the same documentary, religious people are not only happier, but also healthier then average people.

The placebo effect really is king.

The average person is religious. How can a religious person be happier than the average person?

Ah, yes, i should have been clearer on that point. What i ment to say was that people who are more religious then the average person, you know, there are those that attend church regularly and then there are those who go to church only during the bigger holidays like christmas and whatnot. In the documentary they were reffering to those on the more extreme end.

I think part of the problem is that around here the average person isn't really religious. They don't pray and they don't really care about what god thinks about them and things like that. They belong to the christian church and if you ask them if they believe in jesus they go "weel, i don't really know, i think there is some sort of a god out there, but i don't know if i believe in jesus and all that."

So religion is actually more of a cultural thing then anything else.

[l33telboi]

The edit button seems to have dissapeared somewhere so i guess i'll have to add one thing the ghetto way.

When i said religion is more of a cultural thing, i meant that it's that for the people who don't believe in jesus but still are christian and occasionally go to church. I don't know if it's the same in the US but over here (Finland) the majority of people belong to the ones who are more in it for the cultural value.