Full body ballistic armor.

[Winston Blake]

Yeah, but this thread is talking about that awesome armor, not these other things, right?

I really doubt his armor weighs 18 kilos though. My fully loaded backpack weighs more than that.

All I'm saying is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and while there's plenty of video showing his hugely bulky massive bear suits in action, the evidence behind this new supersuit is flimsy at best. He's a known crackpot and now he claims to have created revolutionary body armour with vastly better performance than the entire US Department of Defense has ever achieved, simply by tinkering in his backyard. I'm skeptical until new evidence arises that backs up his claims.

But I would very much like to see any live fire tests being performed. Im also curious how would it stand up to different kinds of ammo used in the military, starting from .223 FMJ up to 7.62 NATO. And a finishing touch being a burst from the M2 BMG.

'Finishing' is definitely a very good description of what it would do to him.

Okay, I can see it being too heavy to use all the time in combat. However, unless the military already has something for this, it could be used when clearing houses, and bunkers and such. Now I have to wonder if they'd want to shell out for a suit of armor that can only be used for a few tasks.

If it would actually be useful, somebody in all of the world's militaries would have already proposed something qualitatively similar. Technology develops by evolution, not revolution. Whether this rises to its promised stellar success or quietly fades away, it certainly has gotten him plenty of PR attention.

[Major Maxillary]

I distinctly remember posting this no less that a couple days ago.

[Major Maxillary]

Stupid ghetto edit:

Almost forgot; As far as armor is concerned, this guy know his shit.

He made some pieces of armor he calls "Blast Bags" put them on a car door, and one bag stopped a barrage of 1 oz. slugs from a 12 ga. shotgun, one round from what I'm guessing was at least .338 LAUPUA rifle, and two sticks of dynamite. all of this was done while a representative from the Canadian military was present.

video


So yeah, from a purely armor standpoint, I'm inclined to belive his claims regarding his armored suit as far as protection is concerned; and as a grunt Let me say that I don't care how heavy it is, if it can stop a .50 bullet I will wear it right into hell.

[KrauserKrauser]

Isn't one of the reasons soldiers have to run all the time is to avoid getting shot, since usually getting shot = dead soldier?

If this armor is as keen as he says, then wouldn't the need to run in dire situations be lessened to some degree. Never elimnated, I understand, but at least would take out the threat of the AK47's in the environment.

[Hawkwings]

Well, that then begs the question, is it better to be slower and get shot and survive, or is it better to be faster and not get hit, but die if you do?

I mean, on one end, we have the US Space Marine Corps, and on the other end, we've got almost what we have now. Which one is "better"? Is there a happy medium? Or are all the mediums sad?

[Enforcer Talen]

Krauser, you dont run to get away from bullets; they tend to be a little faster then you.

However, you *do* run to chase mudj, clear a house with speed and surprise, you *do* run through the ruins of buildings, or climb 8 foot stone walls, or any of a thousand things.

Picture the ultimate obstacle course, put on 50 lbs of gear, and add the possibility of getting shot.

Now try to understand why we minimize *every possible thing* from our gear. I routinely left 100 lbs of widgets in my locker that the usmc provided me.

[KrauserKrauser]

Would you trade 15-20 pounds for the ability that if you did get shot, you wouldn't get permanently injured from it? (Assuming some of the crap can get stripped off to save on weight)

Sounds like a fair compromise to me.

[KrauserKrauser]

But of course logic like that is what gets you 100lbs of widgets in your locker.

Makes it easy to get votes though. Pretty hard to reason with a grieving mother whose son would have lived if he was wearing this fancy new armor that you voted down.

[Enforcer Talen]

That its a full body suit concerns me; that will hold in more heat then otherwise. As well, it will limit flexiblity of the limbs, and I often need those.

15-20 lbs over 6 or 8 hrs is a *lot*. 5lbs over that time is a lot.

As a rule, I took the risk of 'I might get wounded' over the certainity of 'I cant move and Im getting heat stroke.'

[Enforcer Talen]

But of course logic like that is what gets you 100lbs of widgets in your locker.

Makes it easy to get votes though. Pretty hard to reason with a grieving mother whose son would have lived if he was wearing this fancy new armor that you voted down.

Heh, they gave us everything up to and including riot face shields, so shrapnel wouldnt cut our cute little faces.

Thing was, we couldnt bring our rifles up to aim through the scope.

Just cuz it *protects* doesnt mean its *useful*.

[Major Maxillary]

But of course logic like that is what gets you 100lbs of widgets in your locker.

Makes it easy to get votes though. Pretty hard to reason with a grieving mother whose son would have lived if he was wearing this fancy new armor that you voted down.

Of course, then you have the fact that this armor is supposedly simple kevlar and steel plates treated with his fire paste and compound 13 13.

So, following that, you could simply make panels treated with 13 13 for the interceptor system; allowing for increased protection from small arms, little to no increase in weight, and you don't have to buy a whole new armor system for a while. And considdering that my SAPI plates will barely stop a hardened 7.62 AP round, I want all the protection I can get.


As per the weight of the suit, if you live in the thing, your body will eventually get used to it. make it the standard uniform for recruits, or issue recruits with clothing of similar weight to wear in the field, and after a while they'll be doing handstands in the things.

[Enforcer Talen]

But of course logic like that is what gets you 100lbs of widgets in your locker.

Makes it easy to get votes though. Pretty hard to reason with a grieving mother whose son would have lived if he was wearing this fancy new armor that you voted down.

Of course, then you have the fact that this armor is supposedly simple kevlar and steel plates treated with his fire paste and compound 13 13.

So, following that, you could simply make panels treated with 13 13 for the interceptor system; allowing for increased protection from small arms, little to no increase in weight, and you don't have to buy a whole new armor system for a while. And considdering that my SAPI plates will barely stop a hardened 7.62 AP round, I want all the protection I can get.


As per the weight of the suit, if you live in the thing, your body will eventually get used to it. make it the standard uniform for recruits, or issue recruits with clothing of similar weight to wear in the field, and after a while they'll be doing handstands in the things.

Been over yet? Im purely curious.

In my exp, just cuz you're used to the thing doesnt mean its comfortable or easy to get around in. Obviously, you are far more mobile then someone who has never tried it before now, but it doesnt mean you can catch the mudj in the dishdasha before he scrambles.

[The Silence and I]

OKay here's the problme wiht weight that you are not seeing. Right now a soldier on patrol [Now as in right now on the streets of Bagjdad there is a guy doing this literally almost] is carrying flak jacket, comm gear, first aid kit, knife, batteries for comm gear, helmet, goggles, water, chow, likely as not if he is US then some other fancy electronics crap plus padding and the normal accoutrements of clothing. All of this weighs just what the body armor in this system would weigh. Even granted that it replaces the flak/helmet combo this suit is still adding something on the order of 7-8 kg to the load a soldier is already carrying along with some SEVERE penalties in terms of freedom of movement. Now here is the problem, soldiers HAVE to RUN, they often have to sprint because their lives depend on going from cover to cover quickly. Any runner will tell you that every ounce you add to your weight is a penalty you will pay in terms of accelerating AND decelerating.

I didn't try to say someone wearing this won't be noticably slower in a dead sprint, or won't have a lessened degree of movement. I tried to say that 40 lbs is not as impossibly heavy as perhaps it might seem at first.

All of this is great...if you are standing still. When you are moving you have to exert the additional force neccessarry to move the additional mass and doing so in 120-130 degrees F makes such penalties very very real. Yes at rest and in a decent environment a well designed suit will not adversely affect the wearer but soldiers are in crappy environments where they are on the move for hours on end, the extra weight WILL make a difference

Then we agree about the movement penalties being small in a temperate environment, good

As I tried to convey with my post scripts I am very interested in the "Fresh Air" system. If it does not work well then this suit is clearly not up to deployment in Iraq however effective it may be in every other way.

Yes but they don't do cartwheels after walking and running about in 120F weather for 4 hours. The fatigue problems are not something which will be apparent over short term or mild climate use.

Of course fatigue builds with time and progresses faster in hot weather. I am of the opinion that as advertised (which is possibly distinct from reality) the suit offers enough movement and protection to warrent consideration of serious use.

IF the cooling system isn't good enough the suit fails in Iraq. IF the peripheral vision is hampered significantly the suit fails everywhere. It's mass however is not IMO a serious offense, considering its massive (repeat: massive) defensive powers (as advertised).

[Sephirius]

OKay here's the problme wiht weight that you are not seeing. Right now a soldier on patrol [Now as in right now on the streets of Bagjdad there is a guy doing this literally almost] is carrying flak jacket, comm gear, first aid kit, knife, batteries for comm gear, helmet, goggles, water, chow, likely as not if he is US then some other fancy electronics crap plus padding and the normal accoutrements of clothing. All of this weighs just what the body armor in this system would weigh. Even granted that it replaces the flak/helmet combo this suit is still adding something on the order of 7-8 kg to the load a soldier is already carrying along with some SEVERE penalties in terms of freedom of movement. Now here is the problem, soldiers HAVE to RUN, they often have to sprint because their lives depend on going from cover to cover quickly. Any runner will tell you that every ounce you add to your weight is a penalty you will pay in terms of accelerating AND decelerating.

I didn't try to say someone wearing this won't be noticably slower in a dead sprint, or won't have a lessened degree of movement. I tried to say that 40 lbs is not as impossibly heavy as perhaps it might seem at first.

All of this is great...if you are standing still. When you are moving you have to exert the additional force neccessarry to move the additional mass and doing so in 120-130 degrees F makes such penalties very very real. Yes at rest and in a decent environment a well designed suit will not adversely affect the wearer but soldiers are in crappy environments where they are on the move for hours on end, the extra weight WILL make a difference

Then we agree about the movement penalties being small in a temperate environment, good

As I tried to convey with my post scripts I am very interested in the "Fresh Air" system. If it does not work well then this suit is clearly not up to deployment in Iraq however effective it may be in every other way.

Yes but they don't do cartwheels after walking and running about in 120F weather for 4 hours. The fatigue problems are not something which will be apparent over short term or mild climate use.

Of course fatigue builds with time and progresses faster in hot weather. I am of the opinion that as advertised (which is possibly distinct from reality) the suit offers enough movement and protection to warrent consideration of serious use.

IF the cooling system isn't good enough the suit fails in Iraq. IF the peripheral vision is hampered significantly the suit fails everywhere. It's mass however is not IMO a serious offense, considering its massive (repeat: massive) defensive powers (as advertised).

if it's too hot for serious running/etc there still may be a market for it in entry team gear, i.e. Naval Boarding Parties

[Acidburns]

How would the helmet affect your ability to aim with a rifle?

[Aaron]

How would the helmet affect your ability to aim with a rifle?

Going by the pic posted with the article it looks like it would interfere with looking through the issue scope on the C-7 rifle.

[The Silence and I]

How would the helmet affect your ability to aim with a rifle?

If the shape of the helmet will not allow you to bring your rifle's scope to the proper placement with respect to your eyes, then you cannot use the scope.

[CmdrWilkens]

How would the helmet affect your ability to aim with a rifle?

Its hard to explain eye relief and stock weld simply but when aiming down iron sights or any kind of scope the eye needs to have a uniform position relative to the rifle. Now one would think this is easy just put the rifle in your shoulder and its in place except that as with any precision system a rifle can be thrown off target by minor inconsistencies. The presence of a fully armored helmet means that it is going to be significant;y harder to consistently place your eye in the same position, the same with any kind of plating in the shoulder. Now this could be overcome with enough training just to get used to the difference of handling the weapon with the helmet on but that's the price that would be paid to reduce the accuracy loss from improper eye relief.

I should clarify that this is for more deliberate shooting. At extremely close ranges [e.g under 36m] you can essentially sight the M-16 along the rail and so long as you aim at the torso get a hit. This isn't perfect but it is quicker than trying to get a full pciture down the sights. Anyway the helmet is unlikely to hurt extremely close range shooting just the intermediate and long range stuff [anything out over about 75yds]

[CmdrWilkens]

Isn't one of the reasons soldiers have to run all the time is to avoid getting shot, since usually getting shot = dead soldier?

If this armor is as keen as he says, then wouldn't the need to run in dire situations be lessened to some degree. Never elimnated, I understand, but at least would take out the threat of the AK47's in the environment.

Yes it survives the first hit...but what about the second and third?

There is a reason why even some of the Abrams tanks that entered Baghdad were getting killed because if you pound away long enough even with something crappy like the RPG-7 eventually you are gonna hit somehting critical so even excellent armor is not infinite protection. Mobility remains a neccessarry component of avoiding getting hit so yes the armor could [remember all this is if it works as advertised] survive the first round but if you're walking around in a free fire zone you will get hit multiple times so the armor needs to be light enough to sitll manuver out of the fire or it will, just as with the Abrams, sooner or later fail. Its always the trade off you have to make.

[KrauserKrauser]

Obviously it needs rocket packs to help with manuverability.

And roller skates!

[Ritterin Sophia]

Obviously it needs rocket packs to help with manuverability.

And roller skates!

How about rockets ON the rollerskates.... and helicopter blades that start spinning when you laugh, ROFLCopter!

[Vyraeth]

Anyway the helmet is unlikely to hurt extremely close range shooting just the intermediate and long range stuff [anything out over about 75yds]

If the armor works as advertised, and it doesn't impede accuracy under roughly 75 yds, then wouldn't this armor being an excellent addition for members of a SWAT, or other highly specialized tactical response team?

I ask you since I assume you (as well as other posters on this thread) have some experience in combat training, and would be able to shed light on some of the mechiancs of close quarters combat -- which is what a SWAT generally faces.

I can definitely see, if again, the armor holds up under scrutinty this being an excellent set of protection gear for local police forces even if it's not really capable any valuable military application.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Scene: a town in Iraq. US forces and Iraqi insurgents are having a firefight near some buildings.

Obligatory shots of both the US troops and the Iraqis

All of a sudden, 5 red triangles appear on the ground.

The words, "Deep Striking!" appear out of nowhere in a deep, metallic voice. All of a sudden, there is a blinding flash of light. The US forces and Iraqis stop firing.

As the light dims, the camera zooms in on the source of the light, revealing 8 Assault Terminators.

Someone yells, "It's the US Space Marine Corps!"

One of the Terminators points towards the Iraqis. They start moving. Fade to black.

Would this make Bush the God President of America?

[Enforcer Talen]

Anyway the helmet is unlikely to hurt extremely close range shooting just the intermediate and long range stuff [anything out over about 75yds]

If the armor works as advertised, and it doesn't impede accuracy under roughly 75 yds, then wouldn't this armor being an excellent addition for members of a SWAT, or other highly specialized tactical response team?

I ask you since I assume you (as well as other posters on this thread) have some experience in combat training, and would be able to shed light on some of the mechiancs of close quarters combat -- which is what a SWAT generally faces.

I can definitely see, if again, the armor holds up under scrutinty this being an excellent set of protection gear for local police forces even if it's not really capable any valuable military application.

Mind you, Im not a police officer, and my room clearing expierence is a little different.

But, for being a quick (under an hr) op, the armor looks pretty shnazzy. SWAT teams, from what I recall, wear a full suit already, so this might just be an improvement on the general design.

And Schatten, Hes working on that

[KrauserKrauser]

The God Emporer part or the ROFLCopter? I'm hoping for the Copter. Though God Emporer ON a ROFLCopter does sound pretty snazzy.