SETI and aliens

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Funny about video camera and the negate results.. There are lot of video camera footages ( some damn good one) problem is that some have been proven to be hoaxes, and the rest are just consider not be hoaxes but still not to be good enought to be proof.. Meaning no one can prove they are not hoaxes, but still not considered to be proof of ufo being space craft..

Unfortunately, they are not proof. Most can be attributed to hoaxes, natural phenomena, or human made objects. Have these tapes ever been analyzed by scientists and technicians who do not have "ufologist" anywhere in their list of credentials?

The problem is that just snapping a photo, having witnesses ( ex presidents, miltary pilots, astronaut,several scientist, the bralizian Navy, etc)

Witnesses are human. Human memory isn't exact. In fact, the brain reassembles memories on the fly with a healthy bit of interpolation. Sometimes, it just makes stuff up if it can't find all the pieces.

and having a video tape is not good enought ( hell if it was a court case, it would be enought to determine a burden of proof).. We want to have solid evident ( aliens landing on the white house lawn and saying here we are,) a piece of the saucer ( Hard considering beings that can cross the star, would not have ships that shed parts) or the bodies of the same said aliens...

If we considers a lesser
standard of proof for main steam items, like blackholes ( radio telescope and xray photos are proof), yet this is not good enought for ufo..

Ahhh, but black holes are predicted by rational scientific theories. The evidence we have gathered seems consistent with how we expect black holes to behave. And, furthermore, the evidence is corroborated and repeatedly analyzed by panels of scientists. There's a reason scientific journals exist. They present the findings, and allow them to be reviewed by other scientists. That isn't usually the case for evidence presented regarding UFOs.

So why do we belittle or question the truefulness of those that come forward with accounts of encounter with ufo's. True some are hoaxes ( like main steam science doesnot contain such hoaxes ( cold fusion, the recent scandal at Bell labs, etc)) but that does excuse that science should study this evidents on a fair basis..

Ahhh, but the existence of UFOs does not fit any rational theories. To see them do what ufologists allege they can do, such as hover using antigravity, maneuver at hundreds of gravities, travel FTL, or communicate telepathically, requires bending, if not completely disregarding, all the laws of physics we know now. As a result, it is only logical that any claims of their existence should be approached with a very healthy dose of skepticism. Acceptance of UFOs should be held to a rigorously rational scientific standard. Yet, we don't see that. We see people in the UFO community behaving like rabid trekkies the moment somebody dares to question the validity of their little grey men.

Hell Einstein theories of relatitivity was challenged cause it didnot fit our neat picture of the universe, and there still a handful of scientist that question it ( Hell it was illegial for in Nazi germany and USSR for several decades to even teach it )..

Completely irrelevant. You mentioned the two places where teaching Relativity was not politically expedient . . . or do you forget Nazi Germany's views of Jews?

[omegaLancer]

Oh the Popular mechanic article is not good enought why? They make no prejugdement, they state several cases that Have ot been proven to be hoaxes ( one case that even was witness by the Brazilian Navy, with photos).. Then their is the Report from the French Miltary think tank last year stating that UFO's are real ( a case of a group of real Scientist and Miltary poeple that study europian cases in France and Beligum)

The problem is yes there are alot of nuts associate with UFO, but I can give tons of Web pages that carter to Pseudo science, with theory ranging from antigravtiy to Zero point energy from lowering the obrital energy of Hydrogen atoms ( and guess what Nasa even look into this one) some from actual PHD bad science is not reserve only to UFO fields.

The continue lack of interest by main field science community only invites the nuts and the space cases ( no pun meant).

You cannot predict the action of Human intelligent ( Social science and other so call human studies have never come up with a predictable theory of human behavior) so you are demanding that observing a event by a non human intelligent would be held to this...

We have alot of scientist today rethinking the UFO Pheomena, and the fact is that out of the thousand of UFO's sitting there are small percentage that should be look over.. Alot may be contribute to Black box operations by the US goverment ( the recent flying Triangles are believed by several europian intelligent agencies to be Secret american lighter than heavy air lift vechiles and may be moving armor into forward position for attacking Iraq)

I remember 40 years ago a small device was found in a dig in Iraq, the item a small clay pot with two metal rod was dated at 2500 years old. it was discover that when wine was place into it provided an electrical current.. the Item was then place into storage and any one who mention that this was a battery was label a nut case... not till recentily has then been accepted. The fact is that it would be easy to to denie any proof with study it with an open mind..

I my self doubt that UFO are real ( are little green men or BEM), along with Ghost and other things. But I have witness alot of things that some time make me wonder the nature of the universe we live in. Like Einstein I believe that there is some hidden Reality that we just are not getting and UFO are not a glimpse into either the nature of the Human relationship with the universe or human longing not to be alone...

[Darth Wong]

Oh the Popular mechanic article is not good enought why? They make no prejugdement, they state several cases that Have ot been proven to be hoaxes ( one case that even was witness by the Brazilian Navy, with photos).

Even if the picture is not doctored, the conclusion in the audience's mind (that they are visiting aliens) is clearly illogical. As for the fact that there was an article in Popular Mechanics, big deal. They know how to sell magazines.

Then their is the Report from the French Miltary think tank last year stating that UFO's are real ( a case of a group of real Scientist and Miltary poeple that study europian cases in France and Beligum)

Need I remind you that the French Military once thought that the Maginot line was the perfect defense against the German military. If you're going to appeal to authority, you need to do better than that

The problem is yes there are alot of nuts associate with UFO, but I can give tons of Web pages that carter to Pseudo science, with theory ranging from antigravtiy to Zero point energy from lowering the obrital energy of Hydrogen atoms ( and guess what Nasa even look into this one) some from actual PHD bad science is not reserve only to UFO fields.

So? Ufologists aren't the only charlatans out there. Doesn't mean they aren't charlatans.

The continue lack of interest by main field science community only invites the nuts and the space cases ( no pun meant).

The mainstream science community has no interest because it's a waste of time. These "UFOlogists" are kooks.

You cannot predict the action of Human intelligent ( Social science and other so call human studies have never come up with a predictable theory of human behavior) so you are demanding that observing a event by a non human intelligent would be held to this...

Don't be silly. You are trying to argue that aliens will do incredibly stupid things because they are presumed to have a different society? That's nothing more than a flimsy escape clause; cultural values are relative, but stupidity is universal. There are limits to the stupidity of any group which could construct interstellar space craft; the pilots of such a craft are not going to be their equivalent of fundie morons.

We have alot of scientist today rethinking the UFO Pheomena, and the fact is that out of the thousand of UFO's sitting there are small percentage that should be look over.

Creationists say the same thing: "scientists are being forced to start giving serious attention to creation theory, yadda yadda yadda"

Alot may be contribute to Black box operations by the US goverment ( the recent flying Triangles are believed by several europian intelligent agencies to be Secret american lighter than heavy air lift vechiles and may be moving armor into forward position for attacking Iraq)

Most, I suspect. There is a strong correlation between UFO sightings and military airbase locations. Connect the dots.

I remember 40 years ago a small device was found in a dig in Iraq, the item a small clay pot with two metal rod was dated at 2500 years old. it was discover that when wine was place into it provided an electrical current.. the Item was then place into storage and any one who mention that this was a battery was label a nut case... not till recentily has then been accepted. The fact is that it would be easy to to denie any proof with study it with an open mind..

So? People found a primitive battery; this hardly overturns anthropology, since they also had metallurgy at the time, not to mention fairly advanced structural engineering skills. You're not giving a lot of detail; initial reluctance to accept this particular item could have come from any number of sources, such as poor procedure at the site, or a disreputable researcher. However, the fact that it was eventually accepted (assuming you're reporting this accurately) disproves your implicit point about the scientific community being close-minded. Why do you feel that continued scientific rejection of UFO theories stems from some sort of dogma rather than good objective reasoning?

In any case, how does this lead to aliens violating the laws of physics and travelling at superluminal speeds to achieve the incredible feat of getting here, only to do stupid things like mutilate cows and make crop circles?

I my self doubt that UFO are real ( are little green men or BEM), along with Ghost and other things. But I have witness alot of things that some time make me wonder the nature of the universe we live in. Like Einstein I believe that there is some hidden Reality that we just are not getting and UFO are not a glimpse into either the nature of the Human relationship with the universe or human longing not to be alone...

I see no reason not to conclude that UFO's are either optical illusions, military aircraft, or hoaxes. We have plenty of reason to suspect human dishonesty or military secrecy, since both are known to exist. We have no reason whatsoever to suspect alien visitation, since that implies violation of the laws of physics, and if you're going to postulate that our understanding of physics is in error, you'd damned well better come up with stronger evidence than some grainy pictures of a grey-ish blob in the sky at night.

[Master of Ossus]

I saw an interesting theory that held that reports of UFO abductions were triggered by our minds' reactions to the Earth's magnetic fields. It helps explain many of the aspects behind alien abductions.