Arguments to debunk 9-11 conspiracy

[Surlethe]

Is there enough hits of large planes on sky scrapers to interpret the kind of damage which normal results?

No, thank God. However, it's not difficult to develop crude models of what should happen upon the impact of the planes into the buildings. There has also been research into creating detailed computer simulations of the attack: Purdue video. What was observed is quite plausibly described by an impact, and solely by the impact.

[RedImperator]

What kind of skyscraper catches fire (without getting hit, by, something like a jet full of liquid fuel), anyway? I mean, it's all steel and concrete, there isn't much flammable in it, right?

The office furniture, as has been said, is highly flammable. What's more, it will burn at far higher temperatures than the fuel from the plane.

As has also been said, the smoke from these fires is also flammable and will catch fire when hot enough.

I spent Labor Day weekend up in the Adirondacks, and one of the things we did was have a bonfire every night. Not a huge one, just a little larger than an average sized campfire. One of the things I noticed was that a wood fire actually can burn hot enough to melt glass, ignite aluminum, and make steel nails glow cherry red. Most CTs require steel to be some kind of wonder material which can only be melted by thermite, but it'll get hot enough to turn soft in an ordinary wood fire.

[Darth Wong]

How do these people think that humans smelted iron hundreds of years ago? They used charcoal fires in a confined space, stoked with bellows.

Fires do not have a preset temperature. Depending on the heat transfer conditions, the temperature of a fire in a confined space can be much higher or lower depending on air circulation and other conditions. It's inherently stupid for anyone to say something like "X burns at Y degrees" as a blanket statement. An open-air campfire will produce much lower temperatures at a range of (for example) 1 metre than the same fire would produce if confined in a metal box and fed by air blowing up from below.

[PeZook]

A CT which is more sophisticated than your regurgigating idiot will try to claim that the fires couldn't have been hot enough to make steel lose strenght, because the flames would have to be blue for that, and all we saw were orange flames and a lot of smoke.

If you see that, don't hesitate to point out that:

A) It's bullshit. An orange flame can easily get very close to the required temperatures and

B) Ruthlessly point out that they are not making any real models, just basing their conclusions off YouTube videos that only show the exterior of the building.

Just another two cents.

[Darth Wong]

And some fires aren't even visible to the naked eye

Part of the problem is public ignorance of thermodynamics. Fires do not burn at a particular temperature; instead, they burn so that they heat their environment at a certain rate. The actual temperature resulting from this process will obviously vary depending on how quickly this heat is removed from the immediate vicinity of the fire.

[PeZook]

And some fires aren't even visible to the naked eye

Part of the problem is public ignorance of thermodynamics. Fires do not burn at a particular temperature; instead, they burn so that they heat their environment at a certain rate. The actual temperature resulting from this process will obviously vary depending on how quickly this heat is removed from the immediate vicinity of the fire.

Yeah, it should be blindingly obvious even to a complete layman that you can "make" a fire hotter, so to speak, by enclosing it in a tight space. After all, blast furnaces use such a trick, amongst other things

But, of course, we're talking about people who can tell if a building was demolished based on a 10 second low quality Internet flash video. Obviously, their incredibly huge brains can comprehend things much better than the stupid people at the NIST who are all government stooges anyway

[PeZook]

Just another quick one: Take note how CTs treat evidence. In "Loose Change", in the chapter about the Pennsylvania crash, they show a fuckload of clips showing reporters on the scene, no more than a couple of hours after the plane went down. The reporters all say things like "There is practically no plane here", etc.

For them, careful analysis, based on painstakingly collected evidence is inferior to an initial opinion based on a quick look at the scene. For a conspiracy theorist, analysis implies cover-up, while the only true opinions are the ones formed immediately after an incident.

[The Big I]

I've just seen this little gem brought up on the "discussion" on another site:
"Also, what do you make of the military maneuvers that were being practices at the same time for the same scenario?"

it is well documented that Cheney was running the exact same scenario (hijacked planes h it ting WTC and Pentagon) as a "war game" during the morning of 9-11

thats why the air taffic controllers are heard asking "is this a drill"

now dont tell me that doesnt ring some alarm bells?


Too bad I don't live in sydney because they are having a

3 FREE PUBLIC EVENTS - NOT TO BE MISSED!


DELUSION 911 PUBLIC MEETING THURSDAY SEPTEMBER-11th-7pm
Tom Mann Theatre
136 Chalmers St, Surry Hills, Sydney - 5mins walk from Central Station

Find out why millions of people around the world reject the official explanation of 9/11!
with lots of experts there but no Alex Jones

[The Big I]

Sorry about this bit of thread necromancy but I've just read Dr Jone's new theory about the Twin Towers

Critics of Jones' theory have long pointed out the absence of any evidence that the tonnes of explosives needed to fell both towers had slipped past building security, and that seismic readings recorded throughout the attack show no record of ground-level explosions. Jones, however, said his dust analysis points toward evidence of an ultra-fine, composite form of highly explosive thermite that could have been painted onto the inside walls at the underground base of both buildings.

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/the-twi ... -4i9y.html

[PeZook]

Jones, however, said his dust analysis points toward evidence of an ultra-fine, composite form of highly explosive thermite that could have been painted onto the inside walls at the underground base of both buildings.

In other words, he just completely made up an explosive material that fits his theory

I like it when CTs start screaming about thermite, since it's:

1) Not a high explosive, and thus

2) Not used in controlled demolition at all

[Kitsune]

Was listening to part Loose Change, a coworker had it on DVD, and they seem to use the splatter approach. The video argues all sorts of things, many easy to debunk, but just the work of trying to debunk everything is virtually impossible. Many also are just coincidence. For example, I pointed out that the battleship USS New York was laid down 9-11-1911. No matter, there will be strange coincidences.....

[Darth Wong]

Sorry about this bit of thread necromancy but I've just read Dr Jone's new theory about the Twin Towers

Critics of Jones' theory have long pointed out the absence of any evidence that the tonnes of explosives needed to fell both towers had slipped past building security, and that seismic readings recorded throughout the attack show no record of ground-level explosions. Jones, however, said his dust analysis points toward evidence of an ultra-fine, composite form of highly explosive thermite that could have been painted onto the inside walls at the underground base of both buildings.

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/the-twi ... -4i9y.html

Thermite is made of aluminum powder and iron rust. Is this idiot saying that the presence of aluminum and iron rust in the wreckage of a destroyed building proves that it was destroyed by thermite? He can't see any other way that fucking rust might end up in the wreckage of a building? Or aluminum?

[Isolder74]

Thermite is not generally used in controlled demolitions for one very simple reason. It is almost impossible to control. Once it is ignited it can flash quickly or act very slowly the flash into full burn with no warning. As Thermite starts to spread once it is activly going you can't even predict how it will damage things other then burn down. They use Thermite in Incendiary bombs, grenades, and other fire weapons because of it's unpredictable nature. the weapons are counting on it to do max damage to their targets.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Thermite is not generally used in controlled demolitions for one very simple reason. It is almost impossible to control. Once it is ignited it can flash quickly or act very slowly the flash into full burn with no warning. As Thermite starts to spread once it is activly going you can't even predict how it will damage things other then burn down. They use Thermite in Incendiary bombs, grenades, and other fire weapons because of it's unpredictable nature. the weapons are counting on it to do max damage to their targets.

Then there's also the issue with gravity. I like the "painted the walls with thermite" idea. Someone has been watching far too many movies...

[Kamakazie Sith]

How do these people think that humans smelted iron hundreds of years ago? They used charcoal fires in a confined space, stoked with bellows.

No doubt they called upon the power of the almighty. I've found that CTers and young earth creationists have a lot in common when it comes to beliefs.

[PeZook]

Thermite is made of aluminum powder and iron rust. Is this idiot saying that the presence of aluminum and iron rust in the wreckage of a destroyed building proves that it was destroyed by thermite? He can't see any other way that fucking rust might end up in the wreckage of a building? Or aluminum?

Not only that, but it's highly explosive ultra-fine powdered superthermite!

As it turns out, CTs will just invent things out of thin air to "support" their assertions. Just like, surprise surprise, creationists, trektards, lolbertarians and every other brand of idiot

[CaptHawkeye]

When conventional logic doesn't support you, invent your own?

Ah, but your logic suffers from a lack of collective thought and maturation due to its cripplingly limited origin (IE: you) and short gestation peroid! (IE: 10 minutes) What to do...what to do...what to do... Fuck it, it's just easier to grasp at straws and mercilessly assault the enemy's character at this point.