Outside the Camp

[LionElJonson]

If God created humanity, all of humanity had the opportunity to know and worship him. It's just that some of them turned away from God, began worshipping idols, and taught their children and grand-children to do the same. They're probably all burning in Hell, yes, but then, so did everybody prior to Jesus's death and ressurrection; they just went a relatively nice portion of it. Then Jesus came down when he died, and brought them all to Heaven with him before he came back to life.

A blatant lie, or blatant ignorance.
Humams do not start out with knowledge about your god. A newborn child is born without religion. If you do not teach it your religion, it will not know about your religion.
Hence, it can not make a choice - since it lacks an option to choose, since there is only one option.

I meant Humanity in general. Adam and Eve certainly knew Him; Noah knew Him.

Also, you just admitted that your god is a cruel mass-murderer if he damned everyone prior to Jesus to hell.

Wut. Were you even paying attention to what I was saying? Everyone prior to Jesus went to Hell. The righteous went to a nice part of Hell (though not nearly as nice as Heaven), and then went to Heaven along with Jesus when he died. This is basic Christian orthodoxy.

Because even eternal torture is better than non-existence. Anything at all is better than not existing. That's axiomatic.

I demand that you provide proof for that assertion.[/quote]
Obviously you don't know what an axiom is.

I wouldn't, and I'm not being an Internet Tough Guy about that, either. I am totally serious when I say that anything at all is better than non-existence, and my faith isn't strong enough that I'm willing to die. I'm not a very good Christian, that way.

For you, perhaps. But not for everyone - indeed, if you were subjected to such torture, you
would most likely change your mind.

Doubt it. If nothing else, I could retreat into my head, which is by far better than dying and taking the risk that I'm wrong and I'll cease to exist like the atheists and Buddhists think.

That's insane. I literally cannot comprehend how someone would prefer non-existence to existence; it's why I cannot fathom why someone would believe in reincarnation. When you cease to exist, you're gone. At least in Hell, you're still You. I would definitely prefer eternal torture to non-existence.

If your existence is nothing but eternal torture, does it have any value?

Yes. It has infinitely more value than non-existence, like the set of real numbers is infinitely larger than the set of integers.

But hey - i did not mind not existing before i was born, so i do not see why i should mind after i am dead either.
However, i would mind being tortured.
Hence, not existing is the preferable option.

It doesn't matter whether or not you mind; if you cease to exist after death, you won't mind then, either, because you won't exist, and that's infinitely worse than mere torture.

Besides, what does reincarnation (a form of eternal existance) have to do with not existing after death? You are apparently utterly clueless about other religions.

Because you're not You; you're someone completely different. You're no more you than you would be if someone built a corn-field over your grave and people ate the carbon molecules that used to be your body.

Even a torturous Hell is better than non-existence, and there's probably areas that are less-torturous for the relatively minor sinners.

So your god deliberately tortures billions of people.
Nice fella.

Tortures an infinite number of people, due to non-linear time, though they'd all deserve it. Also has Saved an infinite number of people. Not like it matters, since without Him, noone would exist in the first place, and it'd all be a moot point.

[Shroom Man 777]

Why do they deserve it?

Humanity in general, like Ramayana and Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, certainly knew Vishnu. Gandhi knew him. Why don't YOU? Everyone who doesn't believe in Vishnu's probably getting tortured by Kali.

[Serafina]

I meant Humanity in general. Adam and Eve certainly knew Him; Noah knew Him.

They never existed. There never was a pair of humans from whom all humans descended, and Noah was made up by several authors.
Even if we put that drivel aside, the fact remains that god created a world where billions of people do not even get to choose - they are condemned to hell without any fault of their own.

Wut. Were you even paying attention to what I was saying? Everyone prior to Jesus went to Hell. The righteous went to a nice part of Hell (though not nearly as nice as Heaven), and then went to Heaven along with Jesus when he died. This is basic Christian orthodoxy.

Oh, and because it's basic christian orthodoxy (strange, i never heard about it and i was raised christian), i am supposed to know it?
Besides, that changes nothing. Your god still tortured billions of people for no fault of their own.

Obviously you don't know what an axiom is.

That is not evidence. You assert that it is an axiom without showing why. Because it is NOT self-evident, because there are billions of people disagreeing with you.

Doubt it. If nothing else, I could retreat into my head, which is by far better than dying and taking the risk that I'm wrong and I'll cease to exist like the atheists and Buddhists think.

Buddhist believe in reincarnation, you fucktard.
In fact, they are smart people - they KNOW that eternal existance of any kind is not a desirable state. Because any moment of your life only has value because your life is limited. But if you live forever, that is no longer the case - your time looses it's value.
Imagine infinity. Sure, the first million or billion years might be interesting. But what about the billion after that? Or the trillion after that? The human mind is just not structured to enjoy something like that. We are made for a final existence, and our life is centered around it.
Because my life is finite, i enjoy it more. Every moment has more value because i only have so many.

Yes. It has infinitely more value than non-existence, like the set of real numbers is infinitely larger than the set of integers.

This isn't math, dipshit.
But hey, if you want math: Zero is more than a negative number. And being tortured is certainly negative. I would rather not be alive at all rather than being tortured for all eternity.

It doesn't matter whether or not you mind; if you cease to exist after death, you won't mind then, either, because you won't exist, and that's infinitely worse than mere torture.

No it isn't. Because it's completely neutral. You completely missed my point.

Tortures an infinite number of people, due to non-linear time, though they'd all deserve it. Also has Saved an infinite number of people. Not like it matters, since without Him, noone would exist in the first place, and it'd all be a moot point.

There hasn't been an infinite number of people, moron.
Besides, good deeds do not cancel out bad deeds. Else, since i already saved a human life, i should be allowed to murder someone. Of course i am not, because the world doesn't work that way.
Likewise, just because you made someone or something, you do not have free reign about it. Else, parents should be allowed to kill or torture their children - because without them, they would not even exist!

Yes, let's stay on that last point. If we apply your morality to real life, your parents are allowed to do anything they want to you. Parents are no longer to be punished for beating, neglecting or raping their child - because that's still better than not being born at all. Children should worship their parents mindlessly, no matter what - for all eternity. They should be their parents slaves, and their parents can treat them however they like.
That's your logic, dipshit. It applies as much to parents as it does to your god.

[Simon_Jester]

I meant Humanity in general. Adam and Eve certainly knew Him; Noah knew Him.

So you compound your heresy by claiming that a group of people can be justly condemned to infinite torture by the errors of a completely different group of people who lived and died before they were born?

Because even eternal torture is better than non-existence. Anything at all is better than not existing. That's axiomatic.

I demand that you provide proof for that assertion.

Obviously you don't know what an axiom is.

I submit that she knows better than you. The claim that "horrible agony is better than not existing" may be the basis of your argument, but you cannot render it immune to questioning just by touching it and yelling "AXIOM!" at the top of your lungs. Since it is definitely not something that every person agrees on, you'd damned well better be able to present a convincing argument for it.

Otherwise, we are left only with the idea that you personally would prefer infinite torture to nonexistence. I'm skeptical about even that- I don't even believe that you would prefer that level of suffering to nonexistence, not really.

I mean really, what is so unpleasant about not existing that it horrifies you so? Do you think the universe would come to an end without you in it to give it meaning or some similar narcissistic insanity?

Besides, what does reincarnation (a form of eternal existance) have to do with not existing after death? You are apparently utterly clueless about other religions.

Because you're not You; you're someone completely different. You're no more you than you would be if someone built a corn-field over your grave and people ate the carbon molecules that used to be your body.

How do you know reincarnation works that way?

Tortures an infinite number of people, due to non-linear time, though they'd all deserve it. Also has Saved an infinite number of people. Not like it matters, since without Him, noone would exist in the first place, and it'd all be a moot point.

...Creating people only so you can torture them, and torturing a huge number of people for every person you so-mercifully "save" by deciding not to torture them when they throw themselves upon your mercy... that is not the act of a good being who deserves worship for any reason other than demanding it at gunpoint.

You still freely choose to worship an evil god, Jonson, and you are still either too afraid, too amoral, or too starkly pig-ignorant to admit it. If you actually are a Christian of any sort, you have (at best) accidentally done God a grave injustice by deciding that He is evil. At worst, you are guilty of damaging the faith as a whole by trying to make the entire religion over into one dedicated to the worship of evil.

This would be a good time to repent of your folly and indifference to moral concerns, and to study philosophy until such time as you are qualified to think about theological matters on your own two feet, instead of believing absurd and foolish lies and repeating them as if they were obvious sacred truths.

[Serafina]

Actually, i will be honest here, just for the heck of it: I HAD to look up what an axiom is. It just did not come to my mind at that time.
But at least i understand what an axiom actually is. It's a mathematical term, and it only really works in mathematics.
Outside of mathematics, it is not a clearly defined term. It can refer to scientific laws that have been tested so often that they can be taken for granted (such as Newtons Laws of Motion). It can also refer to some things that are actually self-evident - such as the prinicple that two contradicting properties can not be true at the same time. For example, something can not "exist" and "not exist" at the same time. And even that is not true all the time (quantum mechanics).

But an axiom is NOT what you made of it:
It is NOT a cop-out that circumvents need for logical argumentation. It is used to make basic assumptions like the one above, but only because these turn out to be true in real life all the time. Just like in mathematics - for a long time, 1+1=2 was an axiom and not actually proven mathematically. But it turned out to be true all the time in mathematics and real life, hence it was used. Likewise, the principle of contradiction generally (quantum mechanics aside) turns out to be true, so it is used even tough it can not be proven.
But your "axiom" doesn't turn out to be true in real life at all. Indeed, we have numerous examples where it turns out to be false.

So don't try to be snippy - because you do not understand what an axiom is.

[Mayabird]

Would like to point out something about "eternal torture being better than nonexistence" and peoples' beliefs on the matter:
In Washington and Oregon there are laws about voluntary euthanasia that allows people who are terminally ill to receive medication for suicide. Though many of them get the medication but don't use it, a few do every year. Many of them get or take the medication because the prospect of unending pain for the last few weeks of their lives would be unbearable. The Pacific Northwest is not known for its great religiosity and the highly religious probably wouldn't avail themselves of this anyway. It follows that people are choosing nonexistence over a very short period of great pain, ,much less a freaking eternity of unending agony.

Turning it back to Simon_Jester and Serafina.

[Shroom Man 777]

To Christian shit-logic, this is because they're not ending their existence but have an afterlife to look forward to. Except this afterlife is probably also eternal suffering, because euthanasia is evil, so... whoops!

[The Vortex Empire]

But guys, the righteous will go to a nice part of hell, so you might only have your fingernails ripped out eternally instead of being burned in oil forever! That's pretty merciful, right!

[Simon_Jester]

To Christian shit-logic, this is because they're not ending their existence but have an afterlife to look forward to. Except this afterlife is probably also eternal suffering, because euthanasia is evil, so... whoops!

Stupid heretics hijacking the religion with their stupid stupidity...

But guys, the righteous will go to a nice part of hell, so you might only have your fingernails ripped out eternally instead of being burned in oil forever! That's pretty merciful, right!

Well, the nice part of Hell is actually supposed to be pretty nice, sort of all green fields and togas and stuff. If you didn't "know better," you wouldn't think it was Hell at all. Of course, as far as I can tell Jonson is getting that part out of Dante, which is basically a cheap Bible fanfic. It's kind of sad how much some Christian's notions of the afterlife revolve around explicitly non-prophet writers like Milton and Dante....

Or maybe he's getting it from somewhere else, because in Jonson land pain is neat and other people's suffering is OK and for all I know he thinks up is down and night is day.

[Junghalli]

I don't believe I have enough information either way, but even a torturous Hell is better than non-existence.

I suspect most of the human race would disagree with you. I know I do. I also suspect that if I were to create a simulation of a torturous Hell and dumped you in it, making you believe it was the real thing, you'd probably change your mind and choose death if the choice was offered before very long.

God's given us all the information we need to make the choice. It's not His fault if some of of choose to ignore it, and spurn His love.

Actually yeah, it is His fault if He set up the scenario in such a way that the logical conclusion based on the evidence that He chose to give us is that He doesn't exist. You're suggesting that God effectively lies by omission to us (by not giving us any apparent scientifically verifiable evidence of His existence) and then punishes us for believing Him.

You're misunderstanding the nature of free will. It's the ability to make decisions, not violate the laws of physics or totally control our bodies. It's "Do I want a cheese sandwich or a ham sandwich? Do I want to murder my mother, or care for her? Do I want to worship God, or spurn him?"

Don't you believe in Many Worlds Interpretation? In such a cosmos how can free will be a valid concept except as an artifact of our inability to see the other casualty skeins with other versions of ourselves who have made all the other possible choices?

[LionElJonson]

I meant "axiom" as in "the unprovable foundation of your argument". Just like Euclidean geometry takes it for granted that space is flat.

Junghalli: Free will exists because we can't see the other timelines wherein we made every other possible choice.

Simon_Jester: No, I'm not referring to that. My understanding is that Hell/the Underworld is divided into two portions: Paradise, where the just went prior to Jesus, and Hell, where the unjust go. The former is now empty, since Jesus brought all the people there to Heaven with him.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Because you're not You; you're someone completely different. You're no more you than you would be if someone built a corn-field over your grave and people ate the carbon molecules that used to be your body.

How do you know reincarnation works that way?

Well, how about the fact that we have no memories of those past selves? I've long felt that even if reincarnation was true it wouldn't be anything more than plain old death under another name.

[kouchpotato]

I meant "axiom" as in "the unprovable foundation of your argument". Just like Euclidean geometry takes it for granted that space is flat.

LionElJohnson you are a fucking retard. I can almost guarantee that you, as an average person and not some superhuman capable of ignoring all sensation of pain, would break under torture within the first few days. Soldiers, trained to deal with stress and pain have broken under torture, no matter how hard they tried to resist. And since this sadistic God is running the show, that means you will be subjected to this FOREVER. Anybody who would rather be torture infinitely is either plainly fucking retarded (you) or some kind of uber-masochist.

You have yet to prove how "infinite torture=\=non-existance isn't true", so therefore it's clearly not an axiom.

Tortures an infinite number of people, due to non-linear time, though they'd all deserve it. Also has Saved an infinite number of people. Not like it matters, since without Him, noone would exist in the first place, and it'd all be a moot point.

Wow... just wow. You're certainly not making a case for your god's benevolence, infact you'e helping the other side immensely. How did they "all deserve" it? Do the people who weren't introduced to Christianity (much of the world before the last 500 years or so) in their entire lifetime deserve to burn? They didn't choose to not accept your sickfuck diety, they weren't aware of it's "existence".

[LionElJonson]

Tortures an infinite number of people, due to non-linear time, though they'd all deserve it. Also has Saved an infinite number of people. Not like it matters, since without Him, noone would exist in the first place, and it'd all be a moot point.

Wow... just wow. You're certainly not making a case for your god's benevolence, infact you'e helping the other side immensely. How did they "all deserve" it? Do the people who weren't introduced to Christianity (much of the world before the last 500 years or so) in their entire lifetime deserve to burn? They didn't choose to not accept your sickfuck diety, they weren't aware of it's "existence".

Because the degree of torture would probably be more or less proportional to the sins they committed. Also, like I said, righteous people before Christ didn't go to the nasty portions of Hell. After that, there's almost definitely at least one version of them that did become a Christian, and most likely a nigh-infinite number of them. That they might not have had the opportunity to do so in our time-line doesn't really matter much, and in any case, their continued existence is evidence of God's love.

[kouchpotato]

Also, like I said, righteous people before Christ didn't go to the nasty portions of Hell.

So what about good non-believers today? Do they get sent to the "nice" part of hell, or to the bad part? Or do they go to Heaven? I'm confused.

because the degree of torture would probably be more or less proportional to the sins they committed

So what is apostasy worth? Flaying of the skin? Getting the shit kicked out of you by demons? Eyes gouged out? Is it a set degree of torture or is it up to the whim of the demon at hand?

After that, there's almost definitely at least one version of them that did become a Christian, and most likely a nigh-infinite number of them. That they might not have had the opportunity to do so in our time-line doesn't really matter much, and in any case, their continued existence is evidence of God's love.

Oh man that's a relief. Atleast if they're being tortured they'll know that somewhere they're not being tortured. That can apply to so many ways. Example, your grandmother dies. "Oh well lol, I'm sure in some timeline she didn't get cancer so it's all good."

Face it fucktard, your deity is a psychopath.

[Simon_Jester]

I meant "axiom" as in "the unprovable foundation of your argument". Just like Euclidean geometry takes it for granted that space is flat.

...So if I call on you to prove your claim that infinite horror and suffering is better than nonexistence, you will say that you cannot?

In that case, why are you justified in claiming it to be true at all?

Simon_Jester: No, I'm not referring to that. My understanding is that Hell/the Underworld is divided into two portions: Paradise, where the just went prior to Jesus, and Hell, where the unjust go. The former is now empty, since Jesus brought all the people there to Heaven with him.

That amounts to the Dante version I was talking about; the fact that you don't realize it doesn't mean it isn't true.

[Formless]

You know, its unfortunate that no matter how much you guys might tell him you aren't going to get him to change his beliefs. In his mind clearly "punishment=good". That's why he talks about the sinners "deserving" to be punished. At the end of the day no one deserves to be forced to experience pain and suffering. Its considered a necessary evil in this world because it works at reducing crimes, and even then the charade is starting to come down as new methods of rehabilitation have become available (well, outside america anyway). At the end of the day, you guys are arguing with a revenge fantasy, and no amount of reason will convince him that his morality is fundamentally fucked up. I'm reminded of the right wing radio host who had to experience water boarding first hand before he finally admitted that it was, in fact, torture. Even after he admitted that much, he still kept to his guns that this was somehow necessary.

[Ziggy Stardust]

My understanding is that Hell/the Underworld is divided into two portions: Paradise, where the just went prior to Jesus, and Hell, where the unjust go.

I'm sorry, but there is no denomination of Christianity in which this is true. This is just a bizarre bastardization of Dante and snippets from various unrelated sects of the religion.

In fact, it is plainly obvious that you have little working knowledge of Christian mythology. Did you know that not all Christians believe in the eternity of the soul? Did you know that some Christians believe that all human souls will eventually be admitted to Heaven, and that there is no eternal suffering? Did you know that for a significant portion of the world's Christians, Hell and Heaven aren't even places, but merely metaphorical states of being? Do you know what theosis and perdition are? Even the Catholics no longer subscribe to the cosmology of Inferno, whereby Hell is segmented according to sin. As for the fate of the unevangelized (those who have never been exposed to the Gospel), it is pretty much only people who buy into the teachings of Augustine that accept they are eternally damned, and that is pretty uncommon these days, even among evangelicals.

Seriously, what denomination are you? So far as I can tell, there is no sect whereby this description of yours is accepted dogma.

[Morilore]

This guy reminds me way too much of an old highschool friend. If my intuition is correct, he doesn't belong to a Christian sect of any kind; he just believes random ideas as they happen to amuse him.

[Serafina]

Hey, shithead:
NO sin can possibly deserve ETERNAL punishment.

That's really quite simply. You only can commit a limited, finite amount of bad deeds in your limited, finite life.
Hence, you can only "earn" a limited, finite amount of punishment.
Actually, if you believe in an eternal hell then EVERYONE there is punished unjustly - no matter how mild the punishment is, they still do not deserve an eternity of it.
Even if someone murdered a billion people in the most horrific way possible, he still does not deserve eternal punishment. Perhaps a million years of the most horrific torture for each person he murdered is appropriate for him - but then he only deserves a million billion years of that punishment. NOT eternity.

That's why the majority of christians (namely, catholics) believes in eventual redemption from hell no matter what you did. Their concept of hell actually has a reason to exist with a benevolent god - it's supposed to "cleanse" the sinners from their sin so that they are eventually fit for heaven. That makes some sense, who would want a mass murderer as a neighbor in heaven?
When you are saying "christianity", you are really only talking about your tiny (possibly imangined) denomination of christianity. And yours is certainly one of the most disguisting religions around.

[Formless]

That's why the majority of christians (namely, catholics) believes in eventual redemption from hell no matter what you did.

Well... not exactly. For a while there you had (as per Dante) Heaven, Hell, Limbo, and Purgatory, and the last one is what you are thinking of (finite punishment to "cleanse" you of your sins and make you worthy of heaven again). However, over time they've dropped both Limbo and Purgatory from the official cosmology-- Limbo because it just seemed cruel to send unbaptized babies to anywhere but heaven (with PR advantages with regards to virtuous unbelievers as well), and Purgatory got axed along with "indulgences" and the mercenary can of worms that implied. Strictly speaking, they may or may not exist anymore in the Catholic cosmology, but the church isn't explicitly endorsing either one.

There is still Hell, however, and its just as fucked up and eternal as it always was.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Because even eternal torture is better than non-existence. Anything at all is better than not existing. That's axiomatic.

You've been properly ripped for this rediculous non-axiomatic assertion, so I'll just point out that Scripture disagrees with you. Read the Marcan and Matthean narratives of the Last Supper; Jesus emphatically declares that it would have been better for Judas Iscariot to have never been born.

[Shroom Man 777]

There's nothing unrighteous or wicked or sinful about calling Christianity a stupid religion, and saying that LionElJohnson's beliefs are dumb, and that Jesus and Hell and all that crap is a load of shit. It certainly does not deserve any kind of punishment at all, unless LionElJohnson and his God are a bunch of oversensitive internet fatties (haha) who get butthurt over the slightest perceived slight.

Atheist: I don't believe in God.

God: *blubbers* URGH! I AM SO ANGERS! YOU! YOU! *STAMPS FEET* GO TO HELL!

Hindu: I refuse to accept Jesus.

Jesus: HOW DARE YOU! YOU MOTHERFUCKER! I AM A WEAK PUSSY WHO GETS EASILY INSULTED! FOR DISSING ME YOU BURN IN HELL!

Hahahahahahahaha.

Can you imagine God or Jesus like a bunch of ghetto gangstas, and if someone disses them (by not believing in them) they end up punishing these 'sinners' by doing an eternal drive by gangbang forever.

Christianity isn't a gutter, it's a ghetto! It's a survivor, not vermin! Don't diss Jesus, else he's gonna go gangsta on you, homeboy! He's gonna bust a cap on yo ass, IN HELL!

The Bible would make more sense if it was in ebonics. Certainly Old Testament and this hellfire brimstone crap would fit in a crackhouse. Repent, motherfuckers! *shoots rival gangers with Mac-10* Represent!

[Simon_Jester]

...This has already been done, Shroom, with the Prophet Jules Winfield, in Pulp Fiction. But that was just one passage, so the possibilities are endless.

Seriously, though, Jonson is an excellent example of almost everything that's wrong with Christianity in the modern era. The knee-jerk intolerance, the crippling lack of critical thinking and self-analysis, the mountain of unexamined assumptions crushing his ability to think about even legitimate and genuinely useful things like space travel...

The religion has at least the theoretical potential to do much better than this, but where the Jonsons of the world are allowed to set the tone, it won't.

[Shroom Man 777]

Samuel L. Fury did it in a way that would be cool, not gangsta, because gangsta is not cool. Gangsta is, like, lame, feeble and stupid. So making an (accurate) analogy of fundamentalist Christianity as being akin to stupid gangbangers (rather then erudite Samuel L. Furys) accentuates just how petty and stupid their whole religulon is. It boils down to that, a bunch of sheepfucking Abrahamic farmers thousands of years ago, all uncivilized and stupid and uneducated and illiterate, throwing rocks at each other because of they can't put their stupid fucking superstitions aside to behave like proper human beings. Today it's all dressed up in a fancy suit, with well-to-do Western white Anglo-Saxon Protestant manners, but all in all it's the exact same thing as a bunch of flag-burning Mohammad Jihads fucking around in Bakalakadaka Street. Shitheads being shitheads, plain and simple.

The only difference between guys like LoinElJohnsons and a sheepfucking Abrahamic farmer is that LoinElJohnson can type his intolerant shit on a fancy keyboard and post it on the internet while he goes on having his well-to-do Western first world living standards, getting frappos from Starfucks or wherever, but these intolerant religulous shits are really no different from those ancient turd farmers except since they're illiterate they can only convey their hateful shit by throwing rocks. If LoinEl didn't know jack shit about computers and if he was living in impoverty, put him in the gutter and he'd be a gangsta-talking shitpiece, and if you put him in Bakalakadaka Street he'd end up being one of those Mohammad Jihads getting riled up because someone portrays his God as a shitpiece like a terrorist (or a gangbanger).

Shitheads being shitheads. If you take the religion out of their heads, there'll still be shit in 'em. Put in nationalism in their shitfull skulls, they'll start goose-stepping, put racism in their shitfull skulls, they'll be Nazi Rally Racing to find out who is the true Master Racer, put in tribalism they'll be throwing a bunch of spears at each other or busting a cap on each other's asses in the gutter ghettoes with Mac-10s and Tec-9s and Fuck-8s and whatever shitty alphanumeric designations they can pull out of their hateful little asses until their butts prolapse and turn inside out. Put religion in their shitfull heads, and give them a keyboard, and you get this crap.

Man. Fuck your God LoinElJohnson. Go fuck him riding an Orion rocket.