will swords be used in the future?

[Tom_Aurum]

Okay, two people have attempted invalidate my argument. <Sighs>. First of all, were in nearly pure theory here, so remember this and don't just straight out say "you're wrong". Especially without a good reason.

Armor can mean any number of things, from the "shields" in Dune to a form of power suit like you'd find in certain anime, to a cloud of nanites that can coalesce around a shell or projectile. Also, the speed of a soldier in their armor may matter as well.

And swords may with certain technology be made with more ease into armor peircing technology, such as vibro-blades or monomolecular blades. Finally, a training in how to use the sword at the very least helps expand your tactical reasoning greatly, and if you are properly trained it may often prove useful in close quarters. Mayhaps not a broadsword, but very likely a gladius or wakazashi.

[Shinova]

A thousand years later, people won't suddenly forget to strip prisoners of weapons.

And a thousand years later people will have come up with better ways of concealing weapons.

[Queeb Salaron]

Still, there are a lot of period aircraft restored out there, Douglas A-8 Skyraiders and others, even a few MiG-21s and SkyHawks. It could happen, but the cost makes it prohibitive to do a lot of time on target play. The pilots don't really get to do much 'cept buzz around, and at that point it becomes an air show. Plus, local FAA regs prolly won't be friendly.

Yeah, the FAA has a thing about dogfight-style flying over a crowd of people. I don't think anybody has that kind of liability insurance...

[LARPers] ::Looking up:: Hey, I thought we were fighting the Germans, not the Japaneese. What the hell are they doing with the suicide bombings? I thought they only did that at Pearl Har... OH SHIT!!! ::They run for their lives:: [/LARPers]

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Okay, two people have attempted invalidate my argument. <Sighs>. First of all, were in nearly pure theory here, so remember this and don't just straight out say "you're wrong". Especially without a good reason.

Armor can mean any number of things, from the "shields" in Dune to a form of power suit like you'd find in certain anime, to a cloud of nanites that can coalesce around a shell or projectile. Also, the speed of a soldier in their armor may matter as well.

And swords may with certain technology be made with more ease into armor peircing technology, such as vibro-blades or monomolecular blades. Finally, a training in how to use the sword at the very least helps expand your tactical reasoning greatly, and if you are properly trained it may often prove useful in close quarters. Mayhaps not a broadsword, but very likely a gladius or wakazashi.

So in other words, in order for swords to work, you need wank-tech. And why would wank-tech suddenly be applied to anachronisms such as swords and not to the typical infantry trooper's assault rifle?

[Ignorant twit]

Okay, two people have attempted invalidate my argument. <Sighs>. First of all, were in nearly pure theory here, so remember this and don't just straight out say "you're wrong". Especially without a good reason.

Armor can mean any number of things, from the "shields" in Dune to a form of power suit like you'd find in certain anime, to a cloud of nanites that can coalesce around a shell or projectile. Also, the speed of a soldier in their armor may matter as well.

And swords may with certain technology be made with more ease into armor peircing technology, such as vibro-blades or monomolecular blades. Finally, a training in how to use the sword at the very least helps expand your tactical reasoning greatly, and if you are properly trained it may often prove useful in close quarters. Mayhaps not a broadsword, but very likely a gladius or wakazashi.

Tom, why exactly would these things work on a sword and not some form of projectile? All a sword is, is a large thin edge moving with a decent bit of velocity that impacts over a very small area with significant momentum. Sure you can have that edge vibrating, charged, monomolecularly edged ... but which of these things can be done to a sword and not to a bullet? Bullets can have monomolecular edges, vibrating edges, or be charged. There is no particularly good reason why the edge of sword, carrying less KE and less momentum will be superior to a bullet carrying more. Once you start including fun toys like exploding and superheated bullets you realize that the gun is ALWAYS going to be mightier than the sword.

Something like the K-bar will likely still be around, in case you end up in EXTREMELY close quarters and don't have another option (like say a nice carbine), but anything of significant size is an anarchism.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

A thousand years later, people won't suddenly forget to strip prisoners of weapons.

And a thousand years later people will have come up with better ways of concealing weapons.

STRIP SEARCH.

[Queeb Salaron]

STRIP SEARCH.

Dude, if I were a customs agent, and I found a 5' blade in your ass, I'd just let you go, because that's DAMNED impressive.

[[BL]Phalanx]

Actually in the shows and especially in the GROPOS game the Minbari use quite sophisticated ranged weapons, refered to as 'masers'. The Warriors keep the traditions alive of using melee weapons, especially the staff as a link to their heritage. The Minbari are anything but Klingons with bone-ridges.

Sokar, you have B5Wars material on the GROPOS and other B5 ground forces? I started a versus thread in which the Centauri ground forces were involved, but no one showed up with information on Centauri ground forces from B5Wars. Would you be interested in contributing to that thread? It can be found here:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=18247

Yes, they're used mostly in bar fights and other beating the crap out of some one situations rather than full on combat. Only the Narn were ever so foolish as to do that (Severed Dreams) and that was out of pure necessity rather than their personal preference. They also took casualities in excess of 50% for it.

The Narns didn't use melee weapons in "Severed Dreams", unless you count swinging their rifles around as melee, in which case the B5 security forces were doing the same thing once they got in close.

Makes me wonder about that, though. Perhaps both sides were just completely out of ammo at that point. It's possible, keeping in mind that the battle may only last 20 minutes on-screen but "in-universe" it could've lasted much longer. The battle in "End Game", for example, took maybe 15 minutes on-screen, but actually lasted 78 minutes.

[Keevan_Colton]

If only they would....I've a lot of skill with them.....

But alas, its not likely to happen.

[UltraViolence83]

Will swords be used in the future? Of course: In fencing competitions and in cinemas!

Well, if we have Dune/personal shields, then, yes...or perhaps some other kind of pointed weapon?

[His Divine Shadow]

Swords in the future? I'd look towards 40k, most soldiers do not have swords, only a gun and a knife, some officers and higher ranking people do however, fleet officers usually have a sabre or something and in other branches they usually have chain swords or power swords.

Swords aren't used alot, mostly when the enemy is say coming over the walls, they usually run around with a gun in one hand a sword in the other.

Space Marines also have power swords, or power-fists(a human getting hit by one of those was reduced to flying gib) which they utilize in close quarter combat along with their ordinary weapons.

[Artanis]

While common, it's actually extremely rare for bayonets to be used in melee fighting even if they have been fixed. Troops are far more likely to simply bash the enemy with their rifle butts. It's easier to do mentally, and you don't run the risk of getting the thing caught in their guts.

I'm suddenly reminded of the scene in All Quiet on the Western Front where the guy is telling the main character to "whack 'em with your spade"

Tom, why exactly would these things work on a sword and not some form of projectile?

I seem to recall a knife being able to cut right though Kevlar a LOT more easily than a bullet...somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


Overall, I only see melee weapons any bigger than a Gladius coming back if some sort of defensive tech nullifies ranged weapons but not them (example: Mideval Knight could be hurt with a big ol' hammer a lot more easily than an arrow). Until then, I wouldn't expect anything that doesn't shoot.

[Tom_Aurum]

Okay, so I was up the night afterwards about to fall asleep when I realized why. It seemed to make sense excepting the why. It is as such. While the impact that a bullet makes is instant, and therefore the response that the armor has to provide (for example a possible energy-linked reactive armor response) is instantaneous, the response that an armor has to provide to a sword or knife is prolonged, albeit with less pressure. To restate, a bullet hits for a split second, a sword or knife can push for several.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Okay, so I was up the night afterwards about to fall asleep when I realized why. It seemed to make sense excepting the why. It is as such. While the impact that a bullet makes is instant, and therefore the response that the armor has to provide (for example a possible energy-linked reactive armor response) is instantaneous, the response that an armor has to provide to a sword or knife is prolonged, albeit with less pressure. To restate, a bullet hits for a split second, a sword or knife can push for several.

Yes, but you still have to get within very close ranges to use that sword or knife. And you may be able to apply force for a longer period of time with a blade (never mind that most attacks with such weapons are either slashes or stabs, where one delivers sudden, sharp blows with the weapon,) but you can't apply anywhere near the energy that a projectile weapon can apply.

[Tekore]

I think that short swords might be useful to attack (relatively) silently without wasting ammo. The larger swords would only be useful in a duel, with someone of honor. By the way, are we sticking to the strictest definition of a sword, or are you including other melee weapons such as wristblades, spines, maces, pikes, etc.?

[Howedar]

As a practicle weapon, swords are long dead.

I think there is a bit of a nitch for something similar to a Minbari pike though: easy to conceal, light weight, and pretty deadly if you know how to use it.

Aside from the knife, the rifle butt, and possibly such a pike thing, the melee weapon is long dead in warfare.

[Master of Ossus]

and why are they used so much in sci fi?

dune, deathstalker, star wars all have swords of some kind, and b5 and star trek use melee weapons as well.

Swords will continue to be ceremonial weapons for some time, and will probably be used as such in the future. That being said, they will not serve the military purposes that they are frequently used for in science fiction.

The sword IS used in fiction because of its romantic appeal.

[Sea Skimmer]

I seem to recall a knife being able to cut right though Kevlar a LOT more easily than a bullet...somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

No your right, Kevlar won't even slow a good knife blade. However military body armor has metal and or ceramic plates inside which will stop knifes in addition to offering more protection against bullets, and the lighter vests used by police now often have additions to stop knifes, chain mail is pretty popular for this.

[Tom_Aurum]

And there will _always_ be at least one use for a sword. It is a good practice tool for learning to think tactically.

[Starscream]

The only place for swords I can possibly imagine is if a spaceship tried to board another and firing a weapon would be to dangerous. Of course, in realistic space combat I doubt either ship would ever even be within sight of each other.

[Steven Snyder]

The only place for swords I can possibly imagine is if a spaceship tried to board another and firing a weapon would be to dangerous. Of course, in realistic space combat I doubt either ship would ever even be within sight of each other.

Why would you want to use a sword when you have things like a bow? If your objective it to not damage the ship, I am sure we can find much more effective weapons with today's technology than going to back to primitive tech.

[His Divine Shadow]

I dunno, swords can be usefull additions I think to hand guns if you are in a close combat situation, not for all soldiers though, mainly elites may use it in addition to a weapon, it can be very usefull if you are facing a charge of massed enemies coming over the walls, you can then both shoot and slash enemies all around you, if it turns into a brawl like that will say.

[Stuart Mackey]

I dunno, swords can be usefull additions I think to hand guns if you are in a close combat situation, not for all soldiers though, mainly elites may use it in addition to a weapon, it can be very usefull if you are facing a charge of massed enemies coming over the walls, you can then both shoot and slash enemies all around you, if it turns into a brawl like that will say.

I dont think so. Pistols are carried by corporals in the NZ army, but are not much good except in confined places.
If you face a charge of massed bad guys machine guns and well aimd rifle fire are much better. And if they get so close that you need a edged weapon bayonets are better than a sword. Swords also get in your way, they can even trip you. Of cource the best bayonet techniuqe is to shoot the bugger.

[His Divine Shadow]

I dunno, swords can be usefull additions I think to hand guns if you are in a close combat situation, not for all soldiers though, mainly elites may use it in addition to a weapon, it can be very usefull if you are facing a charge of massed enemies coming over the walls, you can then both shoot and slash enemies all around you, if it turns into a brawl like that will say.

I dont think so. Pistols are carried by corporals in the NZ army, but are not much good except in confined places.
If you face a charge of massed bad guys machine guns and well aimd rifle fire are much better. And if they get so close that you need a edged weapon bayonets are better than a sword. Swords also get in your way, they can even trip you. Of cource the best bayonet techniuqe is to shoot the bugger.

Yeah well maybe it's just the books I read, 40k books, we got people protecting a cathedral of their holy emperor from the chaos cultists making massed suicide attacks, they do it all conventionally, almost, then when a final massed charge of insane cultists come some captain takes his laspistol and a sabre andother a powersword(think lightsaber, but more crude and evil) and assorted weaponry and jump into the fray killing and having fun and such :p

[Stuart Mackey]

I dunno, swords can be usefull additions I think to hand guns if you are in a close combat situation, not for all soldiers though, mainly elites may use it in addition to a weapon, it can be very usefull if you are facing a charge of massed enemies coming over the walls, you can then both shoot and slash enemies all around you, if it turns into a brawl like that will say.

I dont think so. Pistols are carried by corporals in the NZ army, but are not much good except in confined places.
If you face a charge of massed bad guys machine guns and well aimd rifle fire are much better. And if they get so close that you need a edged weapon bayonets are better than a sword. Swords also get in your way, they can even trip you. Of cource the best bayonet techniuqe is to shoot the bugger.

Yeah well maybe it's just the books I read, 40k books, we got people protecting a cathedral of their holy emperor from the chaos cultists making massed suicide attacks, they do it all conventionally, almost, then when a final massed charge of insane cultists come some captain takes his laspistol and a sabre andother a powersword(think lightsaber, but more crude and evil) and assorted weaponry and jump into the fray killing and having fun and such :p

It would have to be books cause swords as effective battlefeild weapons went out definatly by the 1860's, if not sooner, for most types of units.
Fact of the matter is that a sword just gets in the way of normal duties in almost all circumstances, so why lug it around when you are never going to use it? In fact if things are so desperate that you need to use a sword I would suggest that no sword will save you
Even the bayonet has little, if any, practicle utility anymore out side of the cerimonial {allthough it was used effectivly in WW2}.