Worst sci-fi science gaffes?

[Crown]

Originally by Enlightenment

Oh good grief.

Drag at relativistic speeds resembles atmospheric drag in much the same way a hail of bullets resembles a gentle breeze. The particle density is nowhere near high enough for hull streamlining to have any benefit; the only significant criteria for hull design is getting a thick enough blanket of armor between the interplanetary/interstellar medium and anything important.

Well thankyou for that opinion Enlightenment. I will file it under all the other things in my trash can. What about my statement did you not understand? Was it the part where I clearly stated that at speeds close to that of light, the pressure is the equivalent of the the pressure on Eath at 90km above sea level? Equating to 37 milligrams per square centimeter. While this is small it is by no means irrelevant.

In order to calculate the Drag force on an oblect you use the following formula:

D = Cd*0.5*rho*V^2*S

• Cd- coefficient of Drag
• rho- denstiy given in kg/m^3
• V- velocity in m/s
• S- Wetted area in m^2

Now obviously in we multiply rho by V^2 we get pressure P, and our equation now becomes;

D = Cd*0.5*P*S

It is obvious now;

• P = 37*10^-6kilograms per centimeter cubed = 3.7E-9 kg/m^2
• Cd can be found by setting D = Thrust
• S can be varied to what ever you want it to be

Now taking the Acclamator, why? Because Dr. Saxton provides dimensions for it and I am too lazy to find another example We get a simplified area of 345920m^2. Also assuming a Cd of 0.5, very generous since the Saturn V had one closer to 0.77, and sticking that into our eqution we get;

D = 0.5*0.5*3.7E-9*345920 = 3.2E-4N

Not much is it? However as described in ICS; Hyperspace - the ordinary univers as viewed from a ship travelling faster than the speed of light. So my assumption here is that the ship is still in the normal space dimension, but is just travelling FTL, hence the difference in appearance.

Now at close to the speed of light, P = 3.7E-9. Lets assume that this occurs at c. Now the density can be found as P/V^2, so the density of space is; 3.7E-9/3E8^2 = rho = 4.1E-26.

Using M. Wongs site, 1.2million c was what he specified for a Victory class star destroyer, from Dark Force Rising, so V = 1.2E6*3E8 = 3.6E14m/s. Now using the Drag equation again;

D = Cd*0.5*rho*V^2*S
D = 0.5*0.5*4.1E-26*3.6E14^2*345920
D = 459520128 N or 459.5 MN

That to me seems significant. Please feel free to point out any mistakes that you see. But I hope I have shed some light on this subject.

[Ladysekhmet]

A big one I remember is in this 60's Star Trek episode, when the Enterprise was duking it out with a Romulan ship. In an attempt to be stealthy, everyone inside the enterprise had to be very quiet, so that the Romulans could not hear them. Which would be a great idea if they were all in a submarine!

[Patrick Ogaard]

Have I missed the post that mentions the incredible rarity of deuterium in the Star Trek: Voyager universe? Multiple episodes revolved around the heroic search of the Voyager crew for deuterium. Apparently deuterium is an exotic, unutterably rare substance. Gas giants, M-class planets with extensive oceans, ice asteroids, nowhere was deuterium to be found. Finally the crew had to brave a demon-class planet covered with people-replicating thermometer fillings in their desperate search for that elusive substance.

Exactly what was Kirk Douglas blowing up in Heroes of the Telemark? He was blowing up a heavy water refinery. What is heavy water? Heavy water is water composed of oxygen combined with deuterium.

There is no excuse. There were scores of people involved in churning out those episodes, people who should have said something. So why was something so abysmally stupid allowed through? Couldn't the crew have just parked next to an ice asteroid or orbited an untenanted class M planet and started refining the deuterium out of the water? At most, it should have been a few days of work to provide themselves with all the deuterium they might need.

In a similar vein, what gives with the food shortages? For the sake of argument, say that a human needs an average minimum of 1 kilogram of food per day, including packaging. Given a crew of 150, that means 150 kilograms of food per day. A month of 30 days would require 4,500 kilograms of food. Voyager stopped at numerous planets to pick up food, and there was never enough. The Voyager has capacious cargo holds, so how hard would it be to stop at one untenanted class M planet loaded with edible foodstuffs and, while collecting deuterium, simply dehydrate, pickle, can or otherwise preserve a year's supply of foodstuffs, say 60 tons? Then take another 60 tons or so and simply lower the environmental controls in a smallish cargo hold to a constant temperature of around -20 degrees Celsius? Add in a merely refrigerated zone filled with fresh produce at just over 0 degrees Celsius and the food supply problem is solved along with the deuterium problem.

For that matter, why did the Kazon from the Voyager pilot episode have water trouble? They had access to several warp-capable spacecraft, so they would just have had to have dropped by an ice asteroid on the outskirts of the system, chopped out water ice by the cubic meter and then purified it to remove contaminants.

Voyager started bad and never got better.

[Enlightenment]

Was it the part where I clearly stated that at speeds close to that of light, the pressure is the equivalent of the the pressure on Eath at 90km above sea level?

That's a rather meaningless statement as pressure is not dependant on velocity. Did you mean drag perhaps?

Furthermore, the density of the ISM is on the order of 1.673e-15 kg/m^3, not the 3.170E-6 kg/m^3 density that the Standard Atmosphere at gives for an altitude of 90km.

[David]

A big one I remember is in this 60's Star Trek episode, when the Enterprise was duking it out with a Romulan ship. In an attempt to be stealthy, everyone inside the enterprise had to be very quiet, so that the Romulans could not hear them. Which would be a great idea if they were all in a submarine!

I remember that one, it was pretty stupid.

[Crown]

Originally posted by Enlightenment

That's a rather meaningless statement as pressure is not dependant on velocity.

That would have to be the most idiotic thing I have ever heard! Pressure's units are N/m^2, or force divided by area. Force is equal to kgm/s^2, so we get; kgm/s^2/m^2 => kg/ms^2.... with me so far?

Now Velocity is m/s, and Density is kg/m^3, so if we square velocity; m^2/s^2, and multiply by density: kgm^2/m^3s^2 what do we get? Come on I think you are able to see it... no? Well we get kg/ms^2, which rather remarkably gives us pressure! Thank you once again for your opinion! One would have thought you learnt from my previous post about how much I value those.

Originally posted by Enlightenmet

Did you mean drag perhaps?

Well since pressure, denstiy and velocity are all related. Well obviously I did and why? Look at my first post for your answer... I will save you the trouble:

Originally posted by Crown

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Simon H.Johanses

Aerodynamic spaceships which don't need their aerodynamic shape anyhow....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are partially correct, however in terms of a vaccum, space is far from perfect. It is true up to a point, beyond this we will have to deal with gas and dust in interstellar space when the speed is high enough. For example there is roughly one nuclear particle per cubic centimeter in space. Not very much, however when traveling at close to the speed of light the pressure presented by this, is equivalent to that of the Earth's atmosphere at al altitude of 90km.

Granted that most space craft do not travel close to the speed of light in the 'normal' space, but even space ships traveling at low relativelistic speeds will benefit from smooth aerodynamic designs.

So once again, since pressure, density, and velocity are all related, and the original comment was why do space ships have an aerodynamic design, then it is apparant to anyone with any kind of knowledge, that the pressure is relevant!

However who was it that first mentioned drag in regards to my original post? Oh damn thinking is so hard... I know the answer is around somewhere... Where could it be?.. Drat who was it?... I guess some mysteries in life are just not meant to be solved. Fortunately this is not one of them! Observe:

Originally posted by Enlightenment


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Crown:

You are partially correct, however in terms of a vaccum, space is far from perfect. It is true up to a point, beyond this we will have to deal with gas and dust in interstellar space when the speed is high enough. For example there is roughly one nuclear particle per cubic centimeter in space. Not very much, however when traveling at close to the speed of light the pressure presented by this, is equivalent to that of the Earth's atmosphere at al altitude of 90km.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Oh good grief.

Drag at relativistic speeds resembles atmospheric drag in much the same way a hail of bullets resembles a gentle breeze. The particle density is nowhere near high enough for hull streamlining to have any benefit; the only significant criteria for hull design is getting a thick enough blanket of armor between the interplanetary/interstellar medium and anything important.

May I take the opportunity to highlight the relevant section;

Drag at relativistic speeds resembles atmospheric drag in much the same way a hail of bullets resembles a gentle breeze. The particle density is nowhere near high enough for hull streamlining to have any benefit

So it seems that you were able to make the connection between pressure, velocity and drag in your original post, but not in your second one. Interesting. Anyway moving on from this, lets address your other point, and yes I use the term loosely.

Originally posted by Enlightenment
Furthermore, the density of the ISM is on the order of 1.673e-15 kg/m^3, not the 3.170E-6 kg/m^3 density that the Standard Atmosphere at gives for an altitude of 90km.

Funny the denstiy that I calculated was actually rho = 4.1E-26, which is 11 orders of magnitude less, then the 'correction' you have provided me. Are you now trying to help my cause?

Okay I will admit that I am being a bit of an arsehole here, but really what did you expect to happen when you sprout off mis-information and poor arguments against me? Praise for you ignorance? I will give you one opportunity to apologize, and I will simply think it was a misunderstanding. After that, I will just have to believe that you honestly think you know more about the content of my studies than me, and you are wrong to do so.

[Peregrin Toker]

I have noticed an even worse science gaffe than the ones I first noted.... the movie version of Wing Commander, where the commander of a spaceship urged the crew to be silent, lest the Kilrathi heard them.... in the vacuum of space.

[Bob McDob]

I have noticed an even worse science gaffe than the ones I first noted.... the movie version of Wing Commander, where the commander of a spaceship urged the crew to be silent, lest the Kilrathi heard them.... in the vacuum of space.

That's the result of bad directing / writing, not scientific ability <G>.

AGH! The scene is the ultimate proof that your average movie goer is stupid. The enemy capships start to fly off and everybody starts cheering, and Paladin goes "shhh". And then you can hear that there's still a blip, which is a ship heading for the Tiger's Claw. He's *clearly* just telling them to shut up so he can hear... and everybody still had a field day with this. (It's even more rediculous when you think about it -- if the characters honestly believed that the Kilrathi could hear them, as trained military personell they wouldn't have cheered at all.)

When I tell somebody to shut up, it's generally *not* because I think alien ships can hear me.

Well, sometimes it is.

[NapoleonGH]

here here bob. Good to see you here too

[The Yosemite Bear]

Battlestar Galactica: Distance to earth.

Well I remember Episodes where their anchient inserments picted up Radio signals of the Moon Landing, and other things broadcast on earth. They said that they couldn't pin point the source of origin. Yet only a few seasons later their HERE. Just how far where they?

[The Yosemite Bear]

Stargate SG-1, or Stargate the Movie, or X-Com

Element 115: aka Nanaquda, Elereium

in both series it takes what ever base energy is applied to it, and by virtue of being a superconductor multiplies it 20,000 times.....

doesn't this violate a few laws of conservation

[Edi]

Uh, Yosemite, Galactica 1981 can perhaps be filed into the bin of mistakes that should never have happened, but did. There was only a single good episode in it, The Return of Starbuck.

As far as most BG fans are concerned, BG 1981 never happened. There was an excellent piece of fanfic somewhere (I'd link, but I'd need to find the site first, it has moved) where the author portrayed the BG 1981 as being something that ran on the Interfleet Broadcasting entertainment channel... ROFLMAO!!!

Edi

[Messon]

NBC made a tv movie called Astroid... A single jet fighter with a LASER in its nose cone killed an astroid that had about as much mass as Mount Everest... A LASER FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Not only that, but when the laser hit, it compleatly blew apart the thing into little chunks. My scailing may be wrong, but that is like pointing a laser pointer at a ball of paper and causing it to explode into flames. Not only that, but they actually said that LASERS WORK BETTER IN THE ATMOSPHERE THAN IN SPACE! This movie was one of those that you watch again just because it is so ludicrous that it's funny.

Though there were ALOT more problems with this 'movie' which had two 2 hour parts.

Badastronomy.com is a good place to see how ignorant some of these movie makers are when it comes to astronomy and science in genneral.

[Master of Ossus]

I think that the movie "Species" had the worst one. When it claimed that "new" form of methane could solve the world's energy problems. Methane is just CH4. How the hell can there be other forms of it? It's the simplest hydrocarbon in existence! Furthermore, how could it possibly lead to virtually limitless energy? Doesn't it take energy to produce the stuff?

[kojikun]

Yosemite Bear: Never listen to the Stargate TV show. They bullshit everything. In the movie, "Naquada" was really a black-quartize which had the odd property of shedding electrons when energy was fed in. It basically ionized itself. I'm not sure how, but it probably did this by chemical reactions. ::

Ok, so they only said it was quartzite, but all evidence points to that. The quartzite was used for power generation without using turbines which are used with heat-emitting materials. Extremely large amounts of free electrons could be used as electrical power sources and I'm guessing this is how the quartzite worked -- by shedding large amounts of electrons.

Now, when it comes to nuking the quartzite and getting 100x the power out, I can only guess that the large amounts of electrons pumped out plus the large amount of energy imparted to those electrons by the nuclear blast could be used to either 1) hear up the surrounding air more then the original blast, or 2) induce nuclear instability.

That, or the Ra was bullshitting about the quartzites abilities to magnify the nukes output by 100 fold just to get Daniel to renounce his friends. I bet its the latter.

[Beowulf]

Another one was in the pilot of Stargate: SG-1. I love the show, but this is a horrible error, and it comes from the character who supposedly possesses a doctorate in astrophysics. When the team first realizes that the coordinates for various stargates aren't valid anymore, the doctorate-holding astrophysicist concludes that the solar systems' coordinates have been changed because of stellar drift or Hubble expansion. What's the problem? Hubble expansion only takes place on galactic scales! Our solar system isn't drifting apart from any others in our galaxy, but our galaxy is drifting away from other galaxies. Bad, bad writers.

Well, in the movie, the first planet they come to is across the known universe, so it's possible that all the planets they're finding are not in the MW, so it's possible for Hubble expansion to work out. However, I agree that it's a goof, and the should have done it based on the rotation of the galaxy, and the differing angular velocities of stars around the central black hole.

[kojikun]

Beowulf: In the TV show they changed it from "Across the known universe" to something like a few hundred lightyears. The show has done that alot, changing things drastically..

[Beowulf]

Oh, well.
<takes the scientific advisor for the show for a "ride">
bwahahahahahahahahaha

[Crown]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but, Star Trek; inter-species breeding, if I remeber my year 11 biology class, it was a long time ago, isn't that impossible?

[Raxmei]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but, Star Trek; inter-species breeding, if I remeber my year 11 biology class, it was a long time ago, isn't that impossible?

By definition impossible if the offspring can have children of its own. If not, then it is onely as impossible as a human-mushroom crossbreed.

[Master of Ossus]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but, Star Trek; inter-species breeding, if I remeber my year 11 biology class, it was a long time ago, isn't that impossible?

By definition impossible if the offspring can have children of its own. If not, then it is onely as impossible as a human-mushroom crossbreed.

Yes, the way that it is portrayed in ST is impossible. I love how every single sentient race can freely breed with the other ones.

On the other hand, it MIGHT be possible because those aliens seeded the galaxy with their own genetic codes in an effort to get all of the races to grow up the same way, but still, it would be ENORMOUSLY unlikely. All plants and animals here on earth have some similarities in their genetic codes. Still, people cannot have offspring with animals, and animals cannot have fertile offspring with other species of animals.

By definition, a species is one that cannot interbreed with another species, but occasionally in ST they refer to the different "species" as "races," a far more accurate term for what we see with their cross-species mating.

[Akm72]

Still, people cannot have offspring with animals, and animals cannot have fertile offspring with other species of animals.

You sound very sure. Have you been doing some experimentation?

[Crown]

Okay first of all;

Originally posted by Akm72
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still, people cannot have offspring with animals, and animals cannot have fertile offspring with other species of animals.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You sound very sure. Have you been doing some experimentation?

Ewwww

And;

Originally posted by Master of Ossus
On the other hand, it MIGHT be possible because those aliens seeded the galaxy with their own genetic codes in an effort to get all of the races to grow up the same way, but still, it would be ENORMOUSLY unlikely.

What? When? Where? This is the first time I have heard this! Is this from an episode of ST or something? Not flamming you, just wanted to know from whence this came.

[Stravo]

OK How did we get from Sci Fi gaffes to Bestiality?!?!

What is it about Bestiality and the web they seemed to be wedded together somehow....

[Lusankya]

Still, people cannot have offspring with animals, and animals cannot have fertile offspring with other species of animals.

Donkey + Horse = Mule

Lion + Tiger = Liger

If the two species are related closely enough, they could produce offspring (although not viable ones, I admit). It works with equines and big cats. I'm not sure about primates. Perhaps humans can produce offspring with other primates, but we don't know because we've never been put in a position where a mating would be likely (interspecies matings only occur in captivity).

I have noticed an even worse science gaffe than the ones I first noted.... the movie version of Wing Commander , where the commander of a spaceship urged the crew to be silent, lest the Kilrathi heard them.... in the vacuum of space .

I thought that was because the aliens could sense vibrations through the ship's hull if they were scanning while people were being loud.


ANd for another bad science thing (although in a comedy, I must admit, but it's so appallingly bad, that I have to include it).
Evolution: WE're carbon-based, and arsenic is our poison. They're nitrogen-based, so we go one across and three down on the periodic table... look! Selenium must be their poison.

It was shocking.