BANNED!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-07 01:21am

creationistalltheay wrote:
Tell me creationistalltheway, What harm has a lawful(as per not raping people, which by the way is an act of violence and not sex) homosexual, such as my self, ever done to harm another living being, intentionally
If I were basing my morals soley on cause and effect, then none necissarily(aside from sin)

You're basing your morals on your own hatred. You justify it by saying that it is a sin. It still makes you a bigot.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-07 01:23am

I'm too tired to waste any more time with this. This fundie simply repeats the same moronic "it's OK to be a bigot because my beliefs tell me so" argument ad nauseum, along with the even more moronic "you can't criticize bigotry because that makes you a bigot against bigots" argument. You can demolish it in a hundred ways, and the fundie still repeats it, blindly shambling forward like the Swamp Thing of homophobia.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-07 01:30am

Me thinks HoS. And maybe a dis-honorary title.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2002-11-07 01:31am

Swamp Thing of homophobia, now that is poetic, Lord Wong.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-11-07 09:00am

Thank you for proving me right. A homosexual, just by being who he/she is and by being intimate with the person they love(or hook up with, depends on the person) causes no objective harm. Therefore your hatred of them comes from you. You choose to hate them without any objective reasoning, then you go and try to justify it with the bible. Thank you. Thank you for proving my(and Mike's)point.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-07 09:02am

creationistalltheay wrote:
Tell me creationistalltheway, What harm has a lawful(as per not raping people, which by the way is an act of violence and not sex) homosexual, such as my self, ever done to harm another living being, intentionally
If I were basing my morals soley on cause and effect, then none necissarily(aside from sin)

So in other words the only thing wrong with it is the Man in the Sky says it's bad?

IDMR · Post by **IDMR** » 2002-11-07 10:49am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Thank you for proving me right. A homosexual, just by being who he/she is and by being intimate with the person they love(or hook up with, depends on the person) causes no objective harm. Therefore your hatred of them comes from you. You choose to hate them without any objective reasoning, then you go and try to justify it with the bible. Thank you. Thank you for proving my(and Mike's)point.

Or as he so poetically chose to put it, the hatred 'came from within'.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-11-07 12:25pm

Creationistallthway, I want absolute proof that homosexuality is bad. Just like you want absolute proof that pain and suffering is bad.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2002-11-07 01:26pm

And I would like absolute proof that religion is good.

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-07 01:41pm

I was not asking for absolute proof. I am asking for an outward reason for that morality.

Also, as I"ve said before, the intent of this was not for you to agree with my stance, as I know that until God chooses to reveal Himself to you, you won't believe in Him. I'll concede to that.

I originally just came here to defend my accused "bigotry" and it immediately became a debate over the wrongs of homosexuality and God's existance.

IF someone else from CWeb would like to come and list the reasons against homosexuality outside of God, be my guest. But for me, I don't need more reason then the command from a God that I have known. I did not intend to come here to try to prove to you the reasons for believing Him, nor try to get you to concede to His existance. I came only to defend myself against the bigottry remarks that have now extended beyond the mod's of Creationweb and become the whole Christian belief. Well, if accusing someone of wrongs is bigotry, then I"d happily announce that I"m a bigot.

From my dictionary: Bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

I am not prejudiced; I'm not the one who made homosexuality wrong. I state that it is wrong because a Higher Power (God) said it was. Again, I don't expect you to adhere to Him until you believe in Him.

I am not intolerant of any other opinions. I'd gladly have you e-mail me (my e-mail is me@dolord.com) about your opinions and why you believe them. I am tolerant of those beliefs, I just think that they are wrong and until they change, are going on the path to damnation. I let them believce it, but I'm not going to firmly state that they are right, on the contrary. That doesn't make me intolerant, but God is intolerant of all lies and sin.

Now that I've defended myself, you may continue to call me a bigot if you wish.

Happy Trails,
CaW[/i]

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2002-11-07 01:48pm

So God came down and said "Homosexuals are bad."

or is it

A book written by some Monks in the Middle Ages said so.

Please Morals are indictive of the times...not because of some supernatural power that does nothing with our lives.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-07 02:25pm

creationistalltheay wrote:I was not asking for absolute proof. I am asking for an outward reason for that morality.

Also, as I"ve said before, the intent of this was not for you to agree with my stance, as I know that until God chooses to reveal Himself to you, you won't believe in Him. I'll concede to that.

I originally just came here to defend my accused "bigotry" and it immediately became a debate over the wrongs of homosexuality and God's existance.

IF someone else from CWeb would like to come and list the reasons against homosexuality outside of God, be my guest. But for me, I don't need more reason then the command from a God that I have known. I did not intend to come here to try to prove to you the reasons for believing Him, nor try to get you to concede to His existance. I came only to defend myself against the bigottry remarks that have now extended beyond the mod's of Creationweb and become the whole Christian belief. Well, if accusing someone of wrongs is bigotry, then I"d happily announce that I"m a bigot.

From my dictionary: Bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

I am not prejudiced; I'm not the one who made homosexuality wrong. I state that it is wrong because a Higher Power (God) said it was. Again, I don't expect you to adhere to Him until you believe in Him.

I am not intolerant of any other opinions. I'd gladly have you e-mail me (my e-mail is me@dolord.com) about your opinions and why you believe them. I am tolerant of those beliefs, I just think that they are wrong and until they change, are going on the path to damnation. I let them believce it, but I'm not going to firmly state that they are right, on the contrary. That doesn't make me intolerant, but God is intolerant of all lies and sin.

Now that I've defended myself, you may continue to call me a bigot if you wish.

Happy Trails,
CaW[/i]

Right, and because a deity says so it must be right.

Take some responsibility for you actions.

And you're so tolerant. You have an irrational belief that others are damned despite the fact that that belief is based on your own hatred and prejudices. Why golly, that must make Hitler one of the most tolerant people who has ever lived.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-11-07 02:39pm

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-07 02:53pm

OMG!! ROFLMAO!!!! LOL!!!

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2002-11-07 05:08pm

Like I said, the answer is simple: God is evil. God intentionally created homosexuals for the sole purpose of knowingly sending his own childern to hell for eternal suffering.
Just like when in The Sims, when I created eight Stormtroopers, sent them into the shed to light the 4 fireplaces (with the clown painting over each, mind you), removed the door, and watched them burn.

Could I have saived them? Yes, but they deserved to die. Couldn't I have created Stormtroopers that didn't deserve to die? Sure, but then I wouldn't get to watch them burn.

Did I know they weres going to burn? Of course, that's why I made them.

Post by **Coyote** » 2002-11-07 05:18pm

creationistalltheay:

I originally just came here to defend my accused "bigotry" and it immediately became a debate over the wrongs of homosexuality and God's existance.

Because you use God as an excuse to act distastefully to others, so the legitimacy of these beliefs and how they derive from God become fair target.

IF someone else from CWeb would like to come and list the reasons against homosexuality outside of God, be my guest.

We have made it clear that we would welcome them with open arms, as well as an unusual lack of censorship. Extend our invitation, please. Good intellectual debate is worthy.

But for me, I don't need more reason then the command from a God that I have known...I came only to defend myself against the bigottry remarks that have now extended beyond the mod's of Creationweb and become the whole Christian belief. Well, if accusing someone of wrongs is bigotry, then I"d happily announce that I"m a bigot.

In the Bible, it only says that a man should not lay with a man and know him as he would know a woman, and do on. If you want to believe that is a good rule to live by, be my guest, no one is trying to force you to be gay. But it does not say that all God's followers should go out and harass, beat up, lynch or murder gays. In fact, your Jesus defended a prostitute by reminding the angry mob that they each had sins of their own to contemplate; it is also not Man's place to judge but God's. By judging someone you dare to take God's place, which is apostasy-- the first sin listed in the Commandments! Are you sure you want to be a bigot?

From my dictionary: Bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

Yes.

I am not prejudiced; I'm not the one who made homosexuality wrong. I state that it is wrong because a Higher Power (God) said it was.

They tried that at Nuremburg. The "I was only following orders" defense; it didn't work. Again, God may not approve of homosexuality (although he did allow animals to do it, so it is a part of nature) but nowhere is anyone given the right to attack others for it.

I am not intolerant of any other opinions. I'd gladly have you e-mail me (my e-mail is me@dolord.com) about your opinions and why you believe them. I am tolerant of those beliefs, I just think that they are wrong and until they change, are going on the path to damnation.

Such tolerance! I like mine better: "The Righteous of all nations shall find a place in the Kingdom of Heaven". Even athiests, as I understand from my teachers at the religious school. Everyone is judged according to the worthiness of their beliefs, intentions, and standards-- a loving secularist who does Godly things starts off a lot better than a sadistic murderer who kills for "Christ".

God is intolerant of all lies and sin.

Then by all means, a person should pluck the timber from their own eye before pointing out the mote in another's, and whoever is without sin is free to cast that first stone...

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-07 07:58pm

Coyote wrote:
creationistalltheay:

But for me, I don't need more reason then the command from a God that I have known...I came only to defend myself against the bigottry remarks that have now extended beyond the mod's of Creationweb and become the whole Christian belief. Well, if accusing someone of wrongs is bigotry, then I"d happily announce that I"m a bigot.
In the Bible, it only says that a man should not lay with a man and know him as he would know a woman, and do on. If you want to believe that is a good rule to live by, be my guest, no one is trying to force you to be gay. But it does not say that all God's followers should go out and harass, beat up, lynch or murder gays. In fact, your Jesus defended a prostitute by reminding the angry mob that they each had sins of their own to contemplate; it is also not Man's place to judge but God's. By judging someone you dare to take God's place, which is apostasy-- the first sin listed in the Commandments! Are you sure you want to be a bigot?

I'm not sure if that would be apostasy or heresy or a weird combination of both. Apostasy is turning away from the faith, while heresy is going against proper doctrine. I can see elements of both within that sort of error. The one thing I am sure it is is idolatry; it is idolatry of the Bible, placing the vessel containing the Word of God (according to doctrine) above God's self.

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-07 08:28pm

But it does not say that all God's followers should go out and harass, beat up, lynch or murder gays.

Where in this whole thread have I remotely said I condoned the discrimination of gays. Theres a big difference between believing they're lifestyle is wrong, and harassing, beating up, or murdering gays! I am 100% against using violence, verbal or physical, against gays. Do I need to be clearer before everyone stops misquoting me?

In fact, your Jesus defended a prostitute by reminding the angry mob that they each had sins of their own to contemplate; it is also not Man's place to judge but God's.

I agree, and I am not judging gays. I am merely stating that according to God, it is a sin. I admit I have no less sin in my own life. How many times do I need to restate I don't think myself better then them??

. By judging someone you dare to take God's place, which is apostasy-- the first sin listed in the Commandments! Are you sure you want to be a bigot?

This is a total strawman. I say homosexuality is a sin, I"m accused of 1. judging them, 2. condoning the harassing or discrimination of them, and 3. being biggoted against them.

Can you read all of my posts next time, not just the ones that say its wrong??

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-07 08:29pm

What do you think of Catholics?

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-07 08:33pm

What do you think of Catholics?

I think it depends on the heart of the person. If the person believes on Jesus Christ, then they're saved regardless of the church they go to

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-07 08:36pm

creationistalltheay wrote:Where in this whole thread have I remotely said I condoned the discrimination of gays. Theres a big difference between believing they're lifestyle is wrong, and harassing, beating up, or murdering gays! I am 100% against using violence, verbal or physical, against gays. Do I need to be clearer before everyone stops misquoting me?

Ah, so you are 100% against God then? Because the Biblical God hates gays and will torture/kill them at will.

Can you read all of my posts next time, not just the ones that say its wrong??

We read them loud and clear. You won't admit that you can't praise a God who promises to torture and kill homosexuals while simultaneously claiming that you don't hate gays.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-07 08:39pm

creationistalltheay wrote:
But it does not say that all God's followers should go out and harass, beat up, lynch or murder gays.
Where in this whole thread have I remotely said I condoned the discrimination of gays. Theres a big difference between believing they're lifestyle is wrong, and harassing, beating up, or murdering gays! I am 100% against using violence, verbal or physical, against gays. Do I need to be clearer before everyone stops misquoting me?

Where have we said that you do?

In fact, your Jesus defended a prostitute by reminding the angry mob that they each had sins of their own to contemplate; it is also not Man's place to judge but God's.
I agree, and I am not judging gays. I am merely stating that according to God, it is a sin. I admit I have no less sin in my own life. How many times do I need to restate I don't think myself better then them??

But you do by saying that it is such a horrible sin and that you are better because you don't participate in it. You don't say it outrightly, but you sure do imply it well enough.

[/quote]

. By judging someone you dare to take God's place, which is apostasy-- the first sin listed in the Commandments! Are you sure you want to be a bigot?

This is a total strawman. I say homosexuality is a sin, I"m accused of 1. judging them, 2. condoning the harassing or discrimination of them, and 3. being biggoted against them.[/quote]

1) you are. 2) I don't personally see this. 3) you are.

Can you read all of my posts next time, not just the ones that say its wrong??

Can you make posts that don't say it is wrong?

Non Catenatum · Post by **Non Catenatum** » 2002-11-07 08:40pm

Ah, so you are 100% against God then? Because the Biblical God hates gays and will torture/kill them at will.

I am against man killing gays, if you want to get technical. Its like a cripple looking at another cripple and shouting "HAH, you can't walk!!!"

I am not God, so I cannot use violence to punish gays. The punishment is up to God, because only He is sinless and has the right to.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-11-07 08:41pm

creationistalltheay wrote:I am against man killing gays, if you want to get technical. Its like a cripple looking at another cripple and shouting "HAH, you can't walk!!!"

I am not God, so I cannot use violence to punish gays. The punishment is up to God, because only He is sinless and has the right to.

Gotta love that mindless circular logic: "God is sinless because God's sins aren't really sins ... because he has the right to commit sins ... because he's sinless".

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-07 08:42pm

creationistalltheay wrote:

What do you think of Catholics?
I think it depends on the heart of the person. If the person believes on Jesus Christ, then they're saved regardless of the church they go to

That's not what I meant.

I want to know what you think of Roman Catholics in general, being 100% honest, no holds barred.