Biggest find in the history of paleontology

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-03-24 11:13pm

really? i'm sort've ignorant of cloning.

still, it'd be a problem to get an ostrich to eat meat.

i was aware of them using elephants to birth mammoths, but i thought it didn't apply due to close genetic relationship between elephants and mammoths.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 11:17pm

It doesn't matter if ostriches are omnivores. You can feed them dietary supplements to make up the difference.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-03-24 11:23pm

Firefox wrote:Why not? As far as I know, all that's needed is to ensure the surrogate maintains the right diet. IIRC, there's been speculation about using elephants to gestate mammoths cloned from preserved DNA.

Dude.. eggs...

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-24 11:27pm

Oops, right. I was just discussing the issue of cross-species gestation with bull.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-03-24 11:39pm

Dear Yahweh,
If cloning a T. rex is possible, and we do it, and i get a pet, i'll be a fundie evangelical for the rest of my life. i promise.

Tasoth · Post by **Tasoth** » 2005-03-25 12:56am

Cloning a T-Rex would be useless, though cool. The idea of studying it is intriguing, but to my knowledge, it simply wouldn't survive without some massive updates to its lungs. What would be interesting to clone would be a nano tyrannosaurus.

Styphon · Post by **Styphon** » 2005-03-25 12:59am

if oxygen levels were really so much higher back then, do you really think it would be THAT hard to keep the thing in a nice sealed environment with the right oxygen levels?

seriously, as amusing as letting a T-rex loose anywhere would be, if one does get cloned, it's spending its WHOLE life in a laboratory setting...

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2005-03-25 02:21am

Could they possibly over time get it adjusted to lower oxygen levels?

JointStrikeFighter · Post by **JointStrikeFighter** » 2005-03-25 02:45am

Well a human can be adjusted to live on Mt Everest, would that be a suitable comparison from todays O2 levels vs. those of 65million years ago?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-03-25 04:07am

Like DP said, creationists are already waving this as "more proof" of creationism, as if it proves anything other than that dinosaurs are really fucking cool.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-03-25 04:10am

HemlockGrey wrote:Like DP said, creationists are already waving this as "more proof" of creationism, as if it proves anything other than that dinosaurs are really fucking cool.

Incorrect.

It proves that scientists don't know everything, and since they don't know everything that proves that they don't know anything, therefore Creation is the only alternative.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2005-03-25 07:35am

Why hasn't innerbrat weighed in on this, I wonder...surely, as the resident paleontologist, she should be aware of some of the finer points of this...find...

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-03-25 07:57am

Flabbergasted.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-03-25 09:18am

Just curious, but what does YEC stand for? I've never heard the term before. As to the subject...Fuckin' Awesome! I heard about this last night and my jaw dropped. Actual tissue, regardless of whether the DNA has decayed is a windfall. You can only get some much out of bones. This could open the door into really learned how the dinosaurs worked, and if they can clone one...*visions of rabid T-rexs attacking the Discovery Institute*...good times

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-25 09:30am

YEC= Young Earth Creationist. The Earth was created in 4004 BC crowd.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-03-25 09:31am

Vicious wrote:Just curious, but what does YEC stand for? I've never heard the term before. As to the subject...Fuckin' Awesome! I heard about this last night and my jaw dropped. Actual tissue, regardless of whether the DNA has decayed is a windfall. You can only get some much out of bones. This could open the door into really learned how the dinosaurs worked, and if they can clone one...*visions of rabid T-rexs attacking the Discovery Institute*...good times

It means Young Earth Creationist. For a better description, check out Mike Wong's "Creationism Vs Science" pages.

Also Chardok, this is a weird question, but that wouldn't be from Dinotopia, would it?

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-03-25 09:44am

Assuming they could clone the damn thing in the first place, how well would its immune system fare in a present day environment?

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-03-25 09:47am

Firefox wrote:Assuming they could clone the damn thing in the first place, how well would its immune system fare in a present day environment?

Unknown, but I doubt it would be defenseless before them. More likely, since the thing has been extinct for 65 million years, at least for a while, it wouldn't even be affected by modern germs.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-03-25 12:19pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:YEC= Young Earth Creationist. The Earth was created in 4004 BC crowd.

Ok, thanks.

Guardsman Bass wrote:Unknown, but I doubt it would be defenseless before them. More likely, since the thing has been extinct for 65 million years, at least for a while, it wouldn't even be affected by modern germs.

This seems unlikely. Having never encountered modern germs before, they would lack the antibodies to deal with them. I would think that the inverse would be most likely; the dinosaurs, at least the first ones, would be extremely vulnerable to modern germs.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-03-25 01:25pm

Guardsman Bass wrote: Also Chardok, this is a weird question, but that wouldn't be from Dinotopia, would it?

Nope, some old cartoon back from the eighties-- Dino Riders or some such. I had a coloring book from that show when I was a kid...

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-03-25 01:45pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote: Also Chardok, this is a weird question, but that wouldn't be from Dinotopia, would it?
Nope, some old cartoon back from the eighties-- Dino Riders or some such. I had a coloring book from that show when I was a kid...

Dinoriders. The good guys had AMPS that let them communicate with dinosaurs. The bad guys had mind control helmets that let them control them. And for some reason the bad guys all had heads like animals and insects. Rays, centipedes, alligators...

It was the coolest thing ever when I was a kid.

Post by **Edi** » 2005-03-25 01:58pm

Awesome find.

I'd like to point out that oxygen levels in the atmosphere could not have been substantially higher in the ancient past. The current level is what, 16 or 17 percent? Over 20% and afaik there starts to be serious problems due to the combustible nature of oxygen. Perhaps some of the physicists/chemists here could weigh in on this?

Edi

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-03-25 02:40pm

WOW! I wonder how common such things really are, and whether this is a freak event or if people just haven't looked hard enough.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2005-03-25 02:54pm

Edi wrote:Awesome find.

I'd like to point out that oxygen levels in the atmosphere could not have been substantially higher in the ancient past. The current level is what, 16 or 17 percent? Over 20% and afaik there starts to be serious problems due to the combustible nature of oxygen. Perhaps some of the physicists/chemists here could weigh in on this?

Edi

Roughly 20%-21% oxygen in the atmosphere. 78% nitrogen, about 1% argon, and up to 1% water vapor.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2005-03-25 03:08pm

This seems unlikely. Having never encountered modern germs before, they would lack the antibodies to deal with them. I would think that the inverse would be most likely; the dinosaurs, at least the first ones, would be extremely vulnerable to modern germs.

The sword is double edged. Pathogens can only infect hosts under certain cinditions. They have to have the right cell membrane structures and internal environment for the disease to propogate.

ANd I wouldnt doubt that, like crocodiles, their blood contains antibiotics to fight off infection. Any animal that would get into territorial fights like T-rex would need them