What's your opinion on Kevlar?

[MKSheppard]

Oh yeah, the police do nothing but simple firing range testing. Bullshit.

Down here, that's all they do. And the DC cops don't even follow range
standards, like wearing shooting glasses or even HEARING protection.

Lets not get started over the fact that EPA agents and Meat Inspectors
can carry handguns...

[Cthulhu-chan]

So fucking what? If you're never shot it doesn't matter. And that's the fucking point. How many times have you been shot? And you went to jail charged with a violent felony.

By that reasoning, why should I wear a seatbelt? I've never been in an accident, and I surely don't intent to get in one, so why bother? Oh, wait, because I'm in a situation where it could save my life! No-one is saying kevlar should become a defacto fashion statement, just that those who may need them should be able to obtain them! Is that so difficult to grasp?

[haas mark]

Actually, I've read the stats. Most gun fights take place at ranges less than 20 feet and, IIRC, the accuracy is less than 20%. It's not a good weapon without lot of training, and I mean combat training, not shooting range bullshit. Targets don't shoot back.

So your argument against guns is that we can't trust the people with them,
because it takes lots of training to get proficient with them? Shit, let's
take away the Police's guns, and the FBI's guns too....because all they
do is minimal qualifications each year on the firing range...

Oh yeah, the police do nothing but simple firing range testing. Bullshit.

Until the tiome when they need to shoot. And that, IIRC, is generall;y only after the perp has shot.

They are trained in fire arm usage, safety, reaction time, friend or foe identification, threat analysis, etc. Yearly checks are just for accuracy, eyesight, reaction time, etc.

This is true. But it has nothing real to do with the situation.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

You don't like my opinion? Too bad. Sorry you were rude to SS.

Two points:

1.) It was MKSheppard.

2.) No, I don't care if you think I was rude. If you don't know what an ad hominem is, I don't care if you accuse me of using one.

[Sea Skimmer]

You could be. It doesn't take much. It's not like I exercise 7 days a week. I take Saturday and Sunday off.

Ah, so Strowbridge is one of the Elite Fitness Morons.

No, I exercise half an hour a day cause obsesity is like a billion times more likely to kill you than guns.

See, I look at what's the mostly likely cause of death, and figure how to limit that. I don't look for the least likely cause of death and worry about that. It's not worth my effort.

So what's your point? You don't care, but if someone else does why should they not be allowed to take action? Because they might be stolen? Cite some facts on vest thefts or shut up. While you're at it provide information on how many guns are stolen directly from people's hands and then used against them. So far all your presented is a total number of guns stolen.

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

0.00367%.
Read that number a few hundred times till it sinks in.

Your point is? That you're opposed to wearing Kevlar just because you might not die while wearing it? Dumbass.

300,000 stolen guns.
Read that number a few hundred times till it sinks in.

More reason to wear Kevlar. Read THIS a few hundred time until it sinks into that musclebound clot you call a brain.

If guns give us any indication, Kevlar vests would be a hundred times more likely to be stolen than to save your life. Then they are helping save the lives of criminals.

Then let's outlaw guns too, because they can be stolen and used to hurt people! Let's outlaw cars, because cars are stolen so frequently and can be used to run people over!

Dumbass.

Do you understand now?

Why should I go to the trouble of understanding bullshit? It hurts my brain.

[haas mark]

You don't like my opinion? Too bad. Sorry you were rude to SS.

Two points:

1.) It was MKSheppard.

So I was wrong.

2.) No, I don't care if you think I was rude. If you don't know what an ad hominem is, I don't care if you accuse me of using one.

Then why do you drag it out?

[MKSheppard]

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Actually, I've read the stats. Most gun fights take place at ranges less than 20 feet and, IIRC, the accuracy is less than 20%. It's not a good weapon without lot of training, and I mean combat training, not shooting range bullshit. Targets don't shoot back.

People can be targets.

Not in a target range. And that's what I'm talking about.

Last time I checked, if they had guns, they could shoot back.

And if you've never been in a situation where the targets shoot back, you probably won't have the mental capacity to handle it.

Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever been near someone who's was shooting? Neither have I, but a friend of mine has, and it's not whip out you HK and blow the bad guys away, it dive for cover and wish you have a spare pair of underwear.

And the police records show, that's a good case scenario. The bad case is, shock sets in and you do nothing till it's over.

[haas mark]

Actually, I've read the stats. Most gun fights take place at ranges less than 20 feet and, IIRC, the accuracy is less than 20%. It's not a good weapon without lot of training, and I mean combat training, not shooting range bullshit. Targets don't shoot back.

People can be targets.

Not in a target range. And that's what I'm talking about.

So the streets aren't target ranges? Please.

Last time I checked, if they had guns, they could shoot back.

And if you've never been in a situation where the targets shoot back, you probably won't have the mental capacity to handle it.

Says you. You have no idea how I would react to any situation, so stop trying to get into my head, fucknut.

Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever been near someone who's was shooting? Neither have I, but a friend of mine has, and it's not whip out you HK and blow the bad guys away, it dive for cover and wish you have a spare pair of underwear.

No, but after you dive for cover, THEN you whip out the gun an dshoot. Fucknut.

And the police records show, that's a good case scenario. The bad case is, shock sets in and you do nothing till it's over.

Only when you've been shot. Fucknut.

[MKSheppard]

Not in a target range. And that's what I'm talking about.

Then play paintball for training. It fucking HURTS when you're splatted.

[Sea Skimmer]

Actually, I've read the stats. Most gun fights take place at ranges less than 20 feet and, IIRC, the accuracy is less than 20%. It's not a good weapon without lot of training, and I mean combat training, not shooting range bullshit. Targets don't shoot back.

People can be targets.

Not in a target range. And that's what I'm talking about.

Last time I checked, if they had guns, they could shoot back.

And if you've never been in a situation where the targets shoot back, you probably won't have the mental capacity to handle it.

Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever been near someone who's was shooting? Neither have I, but a friend of mine has, and it's not whip out you HK and blow the bad guys away, it dive for cover and wish you have a spare pair of underwear.

And the police records show, that's a good case scenario. The bad case is, shock sets in and you do nothing till it's over.

That’s a rare case and a bad case, and then there's the usually case which is.

"I racked the slide and he ran off."

Something like 95% of cases of guns being drawn in self-defense in America do not result in any shots being fired or further assaulted on the armed person. Criminals are doing it because they want an easy ride, if a person pulls a gun its much easier to run off then to fight it out or tempt fate and hope they wont shoot. So thats what they do.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

CSS: Think about it this way: more than often are people killed in crossfire than need to be, especially kids. I think that if parents really gave two shits, they wouldn't mind spending the extra money to have their kids be safe.

And that extra money would go a long way in helping a criminal feel safe. And they thank you.

The odd of a child dying in the crossfire is absolutely miniscule. The odd of a bullet proof vest being stolen, if gun statistics is anything to go by, are hundreds of times higher.

Cite, please.

Culture of Fear:

300,000 guns are stolen anually.
15,000 people are killed with guns every year,

Disastercenter.com:

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

In fact, when was the last time you heard of a child dying in the crossfire?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

The odd of a child dying in the crossfire is absolutely miniscule. The odd of a bullet proof vest being stolen, if gun statistics is anything to go by, are hundreds of times higher.

So now you don't want bullet proof vests to be sold to the public
because they.....MIGHT BE STOLEN!!! OH MY GOD!

You're fucking clueless, Strowbridge..

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

[MKSheppard]

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

Actually only 30 of them are actual kids. the rest are fucking Gangbangers.

Typical Gun Control Ploy: Make Gangbangers into innocent kids.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

The odd of a bullet proof vest being stolen, if gun statistics is anything to go by, are hundreds of times higher.

The odds of a gun being stolen are higher. Chew on that.

Yeah, I'm the one that pointed that out, fucktard.

Maybe if you read what I wrote you'd have figured that one out on your own.

If bullet proof vests become common, then they will be one of the main targets of theives. Duh.

[haas mark]

And that extra money would go a long way in helping a criminal feel safe. And they thank you.

The odd of a child dying in the crossfire is absolutely miniscule. The odd of a bullet proof vest being stolen, if gun statistics is anything to go by, are hundreds of times higher.

Cite, please.

Culture of Fear:

300,000 guns are stolen anually.
15,000 people are killed with guns every year,

ONCE AGAIN, as opposed to how many people that had their Kevlar vests stolen? And how many of those guns were stolen, friend?

Disastercenter.com:

about 900 children ages 1-14 are killed in criminal acts every year. And that's through all methods, not just guns. And certainly not all by crossfire.

In fact, when was the last time you heard of a child dying in the crossfire?

Last time there was a drive-by, more than likely. We don't hear about them here because they happen too often. Maybe they don't happen where you are, but some of us live in the suburbs. Snob.

[MKSheppard]

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Were you born this stupid, or do you have to WORK at it?

http://www.secondchance.com/news.asp?ac ... &newsID=22

********

According to the department’s official report, Sgt. Ellison was on routine street patrol when he noticed a vehicle being driven by an alleged bank robber.

Officer Ellison called for back up, but before it arrived, the alleged robber pulled over, got out of his vehicle and opened fire on Ellison with a 12 gauge shotgun.

In the ensuing exchange, Ellison suffered the shotgun pellet hits, many of which were stopped by his body armor. Upon the arrival of the officer’s backup, the gunman ended the shootout by killing himself.

As a result of the shooting, Officer Ellison was awarded a new replacement Second Chance vest, and his story will now be entered in the company’s annual “saves” brochure.

[haas mark]

The odd of a child dying in the crossfire is absolutely miniscule. The odd of a bullet proof vest being stolen, if gun statistics is anything to go by, are hundreds of times higher.

So now you don't want bullet proof vests to be sold to the public
because they.....MIGHT BE STOLEN!!! OH MY GOD!

You're fucking clueless, Strowbridge..

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

So a bullet proof vest does no good?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Gee, you're right. Just cause a bullet proof vest wouldn't help it's owner in any measureable way but they would inevidably end up in criminals' hands is nothing to worry about. It's shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

Wow. That means each and every Kevlar vest bought will UNERRINGLY fall into the hands of criminals. That means my Kevlar vest will fly off me and plop itself down around the perp's shoulders.

WILL YOU PLEASE SHOOT YOURSELF BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER?

[MKSheppard]

So a bullet proof vest does no good?

http://www.secondchance.com/news.asp?ac ... e&newsID=7

Officer David Revore shares the distinction of being Second Chance Body Armor's "save number 777," while also being the first documented law enforcement officer to be saved wearing the company's new Ultima body armor.

The Kalamazoo Township Police Department (MI) officer was shot last fall with a .38 special, at a distance of 30 inches from his Ultima vest. Hit three times in areas outside the vest, the Ultima stopped a potentially devastating, if not fatal round, that struck his chest. As his assailant attempted to escape in a truck, Revore, shooting one handed, fired seven shots, two of which struck the driver. He then held the suspect at gunpoint until back up units arrived.

Following convalescence, Officer Revore has returned to duty.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Yeah, that's the problem. Guns are too easy to acquire. The ability to use a gun effectively, is not.

Stop parroting the same crap thats been levied against guns ever since
they first appeared on the battlefield and gave the lowly peasant with
a week's training the capability of killing a Knight with years of training
easily=...

Except they can't. A hundred peasents with guns can kill ten knights, but one peasent vs. one knight and the knight will win most of the time.

Same is true today. One poorly trained loser with a gun won't be able to take out an expericenced criminal who has real combat experience.

[haas mark]

The odd of a bullet proof vest being stolen, if gun statistics is anything to go by, are hundreds of times higher.

The odds of a gun being stolen are higher. Chew on that.

Yeah, I'm the one that pointed that out, fucktard.

Maybe if you read what I wrote you'd have figured that one out on your own.

If bullet proof vests become common, then they will be one of the main targets of theives. Duh.

No shit Sherlock. But if the odds of a gun being stolen are higher than the odds of a vest being stolen, then what does that make you? A MORON. And if bullet proof vests become common, they will go down in price, making them more widely available to the public. Two things, CSS:

1) Common Sense
2) Economics.

[MKSheppard]

Except they can't. A hundred peasents with guns can kill ten knights, but one peasent vs. one knight and the knight will win most of the time.

Now you're just being stupid. The peasant kills the knight at several hundred
yards with his primitive blackpowder rifle....Why do you think knights
disappeared from the battlefield?

[C.S.Strowbridge]

If guns give us any indication, Kevlar vests would be a hundred times more likely to be stolen than to save your life. Then they are helping save the lives of criminals.

There he goes again, claiming that everything is FOR the
criminals. Jesus strowbridge, stop pulling shit out of your
ass and provide CITES for BPV thefts.-

Provide cites for the number of civilians saved by BPV.