Would you kill Jesus?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

You are Mary. You have just given birth to a baby boy, who you have called Jesus. Upon questioning, you told your husband that an angel was responsible for your pregnancy. Amazingly, he believes you.

Following that, a time traveler fron the year 2002 tells you the entire history of Christianity. Further, he informs you that you can stop this, but only by killing your own son. Any other actions you will take will only result in Jesus becoming even more delusional, and history will not be substantially affected. For the purposes of this debate, assume that he is absolutely right about this.

The question is: do you kill Jesus?

Hmmm. What would happen if Christianity never came to be? Does the abortion of Christianity affect the rise of Islam 600 years later? If it doesn't, then you end up with another aggressive monotheistic faith sweeping up into Europe. As the Roman Empire would still have screwed itself over and died, leaving a collection of barbarian kingdoms behind. (No Constantine converting to Christianity in 395,) one would have a more Muslim Europe in this new timeline than ours. (Though some would argue that this is a good thing, given the scientific achievements of the early Muslims.) And it is just as likely another messianic cultist could achieve the notoriety that Jesus did. (These were allegedly fairly common in Roman-era Judea.)

[Coyote]

Actually, Dark, it was the ancient title of "Pontifex Maximus" that the high priests of Jupiter on Rome's Capitoline hill used. Later, Caesar held that position in the years before he became "Emperor". The title was used also by Constantine as the "Pontifex" of the Christian church in Constantinople...

But I am of the opinion that some form of Christianity (or something like it) would have taken its place, and we'd be back where we are now.

[Zoink]

I would build a mechanical machine, that could pass as a human. I'd then send it back in time to terminate Jesus Christ and save the world. The christians would probably counter with their own mechanism... so I'd have to build mine out of some polymimetic alloy....


On a serious note:

If I were Mary, after feeling myself up, I'd tell the angel that by his own admission the future is not determined and there may be other less-drastic actions that could accomplish the same goal.

[Zoink]

Hmmm... I was under the false impression that the time travelor was an angel... in that case it makes it much easier to avoid the fate (because the existance of angels would give validity to the son of God thing)... simply move to another area where Jesus can get mental help before his schizophrenia is too serious. I wouldn't see the need for any killing.

As for changing history... from my perspective it didn't happen yet. I would have qualms about taking best course of actions based on availble information.

[The Dark]

Actually, Dark, it was the ancient title of "Pontifex Maximus" that the high priests of Jupiter on Rome's Capitoline hill used. Later, Caesar held that position in the years before he became "Emperor". The title was used also by Constantine as the "Pontifex" of the Christian church in Constantinople...

But I am of the opinion that some form of Christianity (or something like it) would have taken its place, and we'd be back where we are now.

I'm a bit confused by the first paragraph. I didn't address the priests of Jupiter, I was speaking of the Christian bishops throughout the Roman Empire. They were traditionally called "father," which later became Pope, which eventually was used only for the Bishop of Rome, and then was split into a new office higher than the other bishops. If original tradition were to be followed, the Pope would be merely another bishop, neither higher nor lower than any other bishop of the church. I mean, c'mon, they didn't decide the Pope was infallible until the 19th century (which begs the question of whether the Pope was infallible before the 19th century ).

Hmmm. What would happen if Christianity never came to be? Does the abortion of Christianity affect the rise of Islam 600 years later? If it doesn't, then you end up with another aggressive monotheistic faith sweeping up into Europe. As the Roman Empire would still have screwed itself over and died, leaving a collection of barbarian kingdoms behind. (No Constantine converting to Christianity in 395,) one would have a more Muslim Europe in this new timeline than ours. (Though some would argue that this is a good thing, given the scientific achievements of the early Muslims.) And it is just as likely another messianic cultist could achieve the notoriety that Jesus did. (These were allegedly fairly common in Roman-era Judea.)

I think Islam would still have arisen. Most of Islam appears to be derived from Judaism/Judeo-Christianity, with a dose of the original tribal religions still within it. It also picked up the Zoroastrian eschatological beliefs and belief in Shaitan/Satan (like Judaism/Judeo-Christianity did), and thus a religion largely similar to Islam would likely arise. I don't know if much would have changed in an Islamic Europe, however. The scientific advancements of the Muslims were largely from their capture of ancient libraries, and development of already existing ideas (which most advancements are anyway, there are few truly original ideas). The early Islamic Empire was just as racist as the Europeans (the Europeans were considered idiots "with as much intelligence in their heads as pigment in their skins"). Most likely it would have been reverse Crusades, except with most of Europe being wiped out. What would have happened past that is beyond my ability to even venture a guess on.

[Shrykull]

Following that, a time traveler fron the year 2002 tells you the entire history of Christianity. Further, he informs you that you can stop this, but only by killing your own son. Any other actions you will take will only result in Jesus becoming even more delusional, and history will not be substantially affected. For the purposes of this debate, assume that he is absolutely right about this.

The question is: do you kill Jesus?

Well, why would it help much, I mean even if you threw out the entire new testament you still have the whole old testament which is much worst, unless, well, it's the expansionist part that Jesus advocated "teach it to every being that hungers (what if you don't hunger)" I believe which includes the old testament. wonder if some people have thought you could ask this same question being Anakin's mother.

[Hocho]

I'd use my time machine to swap Jesus with Hitler. Christianity is still bloodthirsty and violent, but WWII never happens. And my conscience is clean.