Is tipping a bullshit custom?

[Baal]

What I find more obscene is how tipping has travelled. In the US I can walk into an ice cream parlor and gee there is a tip jar sitting there. I walk into a Starbucks or Caribou and gee yet another tip jar.

Are all of these people making $2.00 an hour as well? Or are they just trying to jump on the free money train?

[Erik von Nein]

At least with the tip jars it's not ever expected of anyone to actually put any money in them, and the people working at those places generally do make above minimum wage. Though, the people who work there still get kind of upset when no one puts anything in there.

[Dahak]

When I was in Berlin, almost every waiter I had was a total asshole to either me, or someone with me (like if their German was poor, or something). I had no problems not tipping them, even going so far as to request exact change. Even though I was in a foreign country, there was no reason to put up with someone being an asshole while being served by them.

Back here in the states, the number of asshole waiters goes down, because they know to at least pretend to be pleasant if they want to earn a living.

Small part of it here in Germany is that people are a bit reserved when confronted with too much friendliness of service personel. The American level of (service) friendliness seems a bit, well, phoney to many people.

[RedImperator]

Tipping can pay off when you're a regular customer. I do the vast majority of my dining out in one particular diner (I almost said "eating out", which is an entirely different activity), where the food is regularly good, everything on the menu is cheap, they don't bother you if you're just hanging out and drinking coffee, and the staff is friendly even when the place is slam full and they're working their asses off. So I always tip generously there. In return, I've noticed that I never have to wait very long at all for my food and the staff is extra friendly to me.

[Civil War Man]

Tipping can pay off when you're a regular customer. I do the vast majority of my dining out in one particular diner (I almost said "eating out", which is an entirely different activity), where the food is regularly good, everything on the menu is cheap, they don't bother you if you're just hanging out and drinking coffee, and the staff is friendly even when the place is slam full and they're working their asses off. So I always tip generously there. In return, I've noticed that I never have to wait very long at all for my food and the staff is extra friendly to me.

A similar thing happens to me with a pizza place I order from frequently. I tend to tip them generously (particularly if it is getting delivered through shit weather), and as a result I tend to get my food in a timely manner. And occasionally they'll throw in a 2-liter of soda and not charge me extra for it.

On a different note, I should point out in Rhode Island, waiters technically aren't subject to the same minimum wage other minimum wage workers are given. Waiting minimum wage is lower. However, if they don't bring in enough tips to at the very least match RI's minimum wage, the employer is obligated by law to pay the difference.

[wolveraptor]

That's why I feel more recalicitrance to tipping at large restaurants, or those which I frequent rarely. They don't seem to remember me. I really only tip their out of sympathy for their low wages.

I wonder how that custom ever evolved in America.

[Stark]

Tipping can pay off when you're a regular customer. I do the vast majority of my dining out in one particular diner (I almost said "eating out", which is an entirely different activity), where the food is regularly good, everything on the menu is cheap, they don't bother you if you're just hanging out and drinking coffee, and the staff is friendly even when the place is slam full and they're working their asses off. So I always tip generously there. In return, I've noticed that I never have to wait very long at all for my food and the staff is extra friendly to me.

So you don't expect good service unless you're part of the racket? Awesome. It's like... hospitality protection money.

[ReinnResauq]

I've gotten into arguments with my coworkers over tipping. I see tipping as 'extra.' Preferably for really good service but even if the customer is just feeling nice. Sort of like a 'tip of the hat.'

My coworkers see it as an essential aspect and have warned me not to go to other places in the chain without the intention to tip because I will be written off as an ass

But it is essential in some states in this country, particularly *cough* the red ones where the minimum wage (Federally still bupkiss) gets cut in half for tipped positions. Some of those people make less than $3 an hour. In those states, I tip around 20% with a $5 minimum no matter how good or bad the service is.

This view on tipping is probably why my coworkers make $30-$40 a shift and I make $20-$25 a shift.

And yes, I haven't posted in two years. Yes, I'm kind of a loser. Oh well.

[Alferd Packer]

Small part of it here in Germany is that people are a bit reserved when confronted with too much friendliness of service personel. The American level of (service) friendliness seems a bit, well, phoney to many people.

Oh, I got that. I actually found the reserved nature a bit refreshing. I'm talking about deliberate assholish behavior. One instance stands in particular; when we were ordering our food, one of our group's German wasn't too good. As she was trying to sound out the menu item, the waiter said (in German) something like "Why don't we just print the menus in English, hmmm?"

I was there for six weeks, so I probably went out to eat more than thirty times. Of that, one of the only times the waiters weren't assholes was when we ate at an upscale restaurant in Prenzlauer Berg(supposedly, Bill Clinton ate there when he visited in 1998 or so). Everyone there, waiter included, was actually very nice.

The thing that got me was that waiters were the only service personnel who were jerks. Bartenders were always friendly, as were the folks manning the tele- or internet cafes. Hell, even the bus drivers were courteous enough to explain something if you asked them.

And as for the phony American friendliness, well, that's what earns them tips. See, I don't care if, in actuality, my waiter hates my fucking guts and wants me to die slowly in a fire. As long as he acts nice and serves me competently, he gets a tip. I really don't care how fake it is; I don't go out to eat to be treated like a burden, and I certainly don't go out for poor service. Like I said before, they owe me a pleasant experience because I'm choosing to spend my cash there.

[Darth Wong]

Oh, I got that. I actually found the reserved nature a bit refreshing. I'm talking about deliberate assholish behavior. One instance stands in particular; when we were ordering our food, one of our group's German wasn't too good. As she was trying to sound out the menu item, the waiter said (in German) something like "Why don't we just print the menus in English, hmmm?"

Why didn't you get up and leave? If I was at a restaurant and waitstaff actually made a condescending remark like that to someone in my party, I'd say it's time to go.

I've walked out of restaurants for really bad service before.

[Baal]

Oh, I got that. I actually found the reserved nature a bit refreshing. I'm talking about deliberate assholish behavior. One instance stands in particular; when we were ordering our food, one of our group's German wasn't too good. As she was trying to sound out the menu item, the waiter said (in German) something like "Why don't we just print the menus in English, hmmm?"

Why didn't you get up and leave? If I was at a restaurant and waitstaff actually made a condescending remark like that to someone in my party, I'd say it's time to go.

I've walked out of restaurants for really bad service before.

Arrogant German waiters. Now that is too funny. What's next arrogant waiters at English restaurants?

I can see and understand an arrogant French waiter, at least the food there is good.

[El Moose Monstero]

Small part of it here in Germany is that people are a bit reserved when confronted with too much friendliness of service personel. The American level of (service) friendliness seems a bit, well, phoney to many people.

Oh, I got that. I actually found the reserved nature a bit refreshing. I'm talking about deliberate assholish behavior. One instance stands in particular; when we were ordering our food, one of our group's German wasn't too good. As she was trying to sound out the menu item, the waiter said (in German) something like "Why don't we just print the menus in English, hmmm?"

Similar experience when I was in Munich, I was there on lab work and was staying with a group of international students who'd been resident for some time and were fluent. We were in a mexican restaurant that supposedly did good cocktails, and we got into an argument with our waiter after he brought the wrong drink for one of us, and all of us could testify to the fact that it was not what we ordered. Completely bamboozling, he basically adopted an outright denial mixed with a walking off, swearing under his breath and not dealing with us policy until someone actually got up to take issue with him.

I've never actually encountered a waiter who didn't even bother to contemplate the idea that he could be wrong and the twelve people at the table could be right. If we'd not been eating already, I think we'd have left.

[Alferd Packer]

Why didn't you get up and leave? If I was at a restaurant and waitstaff actually made a condescending remark like that to someone in my party, I'd say it's time to go.

I've walked out of restaurants for really bad service before.

Eh, the best I can offer is that we were college kids in a foreign country. I know it can be said that "asshole is asshole is asshole," and it's probably true, but where I would've been confident in voicing my displeasure back home, I felt both out of my element and not confident enough in my German to mercilessly and clearly chew the guy out. Chalk it up to life experience, I guess. Now that I'm older and wiser(?), I'll not just put up with it and not leave a tip, I'll just leave.

[RedImperator]

Tipping can pay off when you're a regular customer. I do the vast majority of my dining out in one particular diner (I almost said "eating out", which is an entirely different activity), where the food is regularly good, everything on the menu is cheap, they don't bother you if you're just hanging out and drinking coffee, and the staff is friendly even when the place is slam full and they're working their asses off. So I always tip generously there. In return, I've noticed that I never have to wait very long at all for my food and the staff is extra friendly to me.

So you don't expect good service unless you're part of the racket? Awesome. It's like... hospitality protection money.

Oh no, it's not like that. This is a good diner; service is always good. What I get for being part of the racket is special treatment. I'm convinced now that my orders go to the head of the queue, even if there are a dozen tables ahead of me. In the last year or so, I've never had to wait for an order. It's pretty awesome, actually.

Now that I think about it, I usually order from the same pizza place and always tip the drivers well, too, and I've come to notice that even at 8 PM on a Saturday night, I never have to wait more than 20 minutes for a pie. I'll be told 45 minutes on the phone, and then twenty minutes later they're knocking on my door. Which means some cheapskate somewhere had to wait extra long for his. Sucks to be him.

Tipping FTW.

[Justforfun000]

You know, when it comes down to it, this is the governments fault! They should not allow places to pay people less then a minimum wage in the first place. What was that earlier figure some people were being paid? Around $2.50 an hour? Are you fucking kidding me? That's idiocy. The only people benefitting are the owners of the restaurant. I'm sure that helps pad their pocket nicely! How nice is that to be able to have workers under you that you can pay much less then any other job? Bullshit!

Here in Canada we have in Ontario a minimum wage of $8 an hour I believe...and there is a buzz about it getting raised to $10 as well it SHOULD. Now a server's wage is $6.85 and hour. So what the fuck is this? Why is this legal?

This is a very simple problem with a very simple solution. The government could come forth with an amendment abolishing a special "category" of a server's minimum wage citing the reasons everyone are rightfully complaining about.

1) The customer is"expected" to be part of their major income

2) They have to report their tips on the honour system and undoubtedly the government loses out on the lion's share of the TRUE figure

3) They want to even the field so that these completely arbitrarily exalted 'service' positions are not put in the position of being paid on paper a pittance, and taking home a shitload of money compared to 95% of all other service industry jobs that don't receive tips. Especially exorbitant tips like 15 to 20% on bills. That's a LOT of money in the right places.

Fuck, even bartenders that just get 50 cents to a buck a beer take home a LOT of money. I know. My boyfriend is one. He was making more money then me on average then I make as a musician doing a specialty service with regular work. And not to denigrate him or the position, but who the fuck can't learn to serve a beer or mix a drink?

Basically I do tip the average because unfortunately it IS expected and you're fighting a losing battle to try and buck against the system, but it COULD be fixed if the governments would get their ass in gear and set it right.

[Aeolus]

The very idea of US$2 (AU$2.50) an hour simply boggles my mind. Over 21, I'd be shocked to see a job paying less than AU$10. Juniors get less - say in fast food, AU$7-11 - but two fifty an hour?

Well, if John Howard has his way our labour wages will become internationally compeditive... ie, shit. Yay! Vote for him again everyone!

Yes but after the 2 an hour the waiter adds on his tips at 15% to 20% of his sales it can really add up. On a decent night my sales are around 6 or 7 hundred and my sales break a thousand on a busy night. As was already said in places that don't take tips they usually add a service charge. That is in effect what tips are in the US.

[Aeolus]

Does anyone remember that 3rd Rock From the Sun episode where Dick was introduced to the notion of tipping?

That would be an awesome thing to do; place a wad of cash on the table, inform the waiter that this is his tip and that you will be deducting from it or adding to it depending on the quality of service .... although that would probably make them 'spit in your soup and piss in your coffee' from the get go, but it would be pretty god darn funny.

I have always secretly wanted a customer to do that. It could be a fun challenge.

[Spyder]

Depends on the state. California, for example, forces businesses to pay a living wage (at least minimum wage) to their wait staff.

And what's all this talk of 10-15%? A couple of my friends got really mad at me one night when I left a 15% tip. They went off on how 20% was right and that 15% was only done when you had poor service.

Let me get this right. You were expected to tip even in the case of poor service, just at a lesser rate ?

I've got no problem with service charges built into the bill as the staff do need to be payed. Then again, I don't think I've heard of anyone tipping in New Zealand.

Its not expected, but some do for service 'above and beyoned the call'.

BTW, Hows piss up central..err Dunners?

Can't say I've ever encountered it. When I was working in retail we weren't actually allowed to accept cash tips. We did accept the odd six pack from a happy customer though

And speaking of piss ups, you two should come to Wellington some time.

[Pelranius]

I usually pay 5-10%, and get away with it since I do look the part of a shabby, down on his luck student.

I'm also more mindful of tips ever since I started working at the college cafeteria (though they don't leave tips for us there, obviously)

[Stuart Mackey]

And speaking of piss ups, you two should come to Wellington some time.

A distinct possibility I will be up there in two or so months. I will let you know when.

[Spin Echo]

And speaking of piss ups, you two should come to Wellington some time.

A distinct possibility I will be up there in two or so months. I will let you know when.

Try and make it before the 27th of June, when I head to Spain.

[Dargos]

Thats why I love Germany. I don't have to worry about percentages in tipping. If the service was standard I just round up the price. Meal for family, price 70.20 Euros, round that up to 80 and you are good to go. If the service was excellent and they worked their ass off I would throw in an extra 2 or 3 Euros) If the service was shit they don't get shit, I wait paitently while they count out my change to the last cent.

In the states I useually give a 10%(which is well below normal) tip for normal service.
If they did a shitty job, I don't leave anything, or I insult them with a dime or a nickle on the table.

If the service was impecable I bump the tip up to around 20%. If the meal was well made and very tasty, I have a tip sent to the cook.

[Crown]

Arrogant German waiters. Now that is too funny. What's next arrogant waiters at English restaurants?

I can see and understand an arrogant French waiter, at least the food there is good.

There was a show, that I once saw, regarding the hospitality industry its roots and the different culture 'values' in service. The jist of it was (regarding the French) that after the Revolution, wait staff for the nobility just found themselves largely out of work, so they opened restaurants or went to work for the new bosses, but these new 'clients' were hardly educated in civilised dinning decorum and the wait staff would often have to 'educate' them, thus explaining their aloofishness (not a word I know) and stuck up nature.

[Zac Naloen]

Personally I use Tipping as an excuse to get rid of excess change.


I tip until I have no change in wallet I don't need, whether that be 30p or £5.

My girlfriend does the same, Waiters aren't all that poorly paid here unlike America, as they still have to be paid minimum wage so tipping is literally just for good service.

[Jon]

I just got back from Prague where some unfortunate restaurant experiences tainted what was otherwise an enjoyable break. On two occasions when a group of friends went out for a meal we were treated to uninspiring and lax service by waiters who just seemed to hold us in contempt the moment they realised we were visitors to the country. Anyway, to get to the point at the end of one particular meal, which in itself was great we got the bill, there was a mandatory 10% service charge included that we weren't informed about before hand, in total with service it came out at about 6000 koruna (280 USD) and we left about 300 koruna (15 USD) extra in the dish anyway (because indeed, we're caught up in this tipping even when the service is dreadful culture too, heh).

Anyhow, as we were leaving the waiter called me back over and pushed the 300 odd koruna back into my hand, and bluntly stated 'if you want to tip me, it's 10% or nothing'. It's a fine life eh? I've worked as a waiter before and even when I'm stressed out and pissed off I attempted to treat guests in the way I'd expect to be treated at a restaraunt/bar, even when they were arseholes, and we certainly were nothing but courteous to this guy all night, it's not as if we left him pennies as a tip, and on top of the service charge I've no idea why he literally threw it back in our faces.