Why?! Why do so many morons worship the Third Reich?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-21 12:38pm

Steve wrote:Oh, don't sack him.... just don't be grossly biased in his favor.

I'm not sure if that even was possible - Montgomery had a lot of pull with the UK and their government. You know what would have happened had Ike relegated Monty's command to one of secondary import (especially if Patton was getting all the glory).

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-21 12:43pm

Steve wrote:And yet, Sherman also supported aiding Native Americans in becoming yeomen and productive farmers. He believed that given the chance any of them could improve to what was then modern standards.

One thought on that quote - I'd need to see it in context rather than just a stand-alone. It seems that Sherman advocated the destruction of the Sioux only if no other solution could be found.

Post by **Steve** » 2002-10-21 12:48pm

phongn wrote:
Steve wrote:And yet, Sherman also supported aiding Native Americans in becoming yeomen and productive farmers. He believed that given the chance any of them could improve to what was then modern standards.
One thought on that quote - I'd need to see it in context rather than just a stand-alone. It seems that Sherman advocated the destruction of the Sioux only if no other solution could be found.

Yes, yes indeed. Considering the hate of Sherman in modern intellectual circles, I wouldn't be surprised if that quote was taken out of it's proper context and used to make him look bad.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-21 01:02pm

Darth Wong wrote:PS. And don't spew bullshit about their "humanist legacy". The Renaissance did not start until centuries after these fuckers made their trip.

Um, Mike the European Renaissance started in the 14th Century.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-21 01:05pm

Darth Wong wrote: PS. And don't spew bullshit about their "humanist legacy". The Renaissance did not start until centuries after these fuckers made their trip.

::Shep Sighs::

*Takes out the Mallet of Doom MK I from it's retirement and bashes
wong over the head with it, knocking him flat to the floor*

http://www.learner.org/exhibits/renaissance/

"Renaissance," French for "rebirth," perfectly describes the
intellectual and economic changes that occurred in Europe from the fourteenth through the sixteenth centuries.

The Renaissance began almost a hundred years before
Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492, not CENTURIES later
as you so claim, Wong

*Mallets Wong Again for good measure*

This kind of gross historical error is simply inexcusable. It's like saying
Sherman was a general during the Vietnam War...

*Mallets Wong again to make sure the point is pounded into his head*

Post by **Steve** » 2002-10-21 01:07pm

Shep, stop saying things that I am in agreement with. It's making me feel... dirty.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-10-21 01:07pm

I think you're thinking of the Enlightenment, maybe? It, not the Renaissance, began centuries after Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-21 01:12pm

MKSheppard wrote:The Renaissance began almost a hundred years before Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492, not CENTURIES later as you so claim, Wong

Renaissance, Enlightenment, whatever. The point was humanism, which you were talking about.

*Mallets Wong Again for good measure*

This kind of gross historical error is simply inexcusable. It's like saying
Sherman was a general during the Vietnam War...

And if the point had to do with the Vietnam War and you were talking about a different general but mixed up the name, it would still stand. Do you know what the term "red herring fallacy" means, Shep?

You ignored every point I made in favour of this red-herring nitpick. Typical irrational modus operandi for you, isn't it?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-21 01:28pm

Darth Wong wrote: You ignored every point I made in favour of this red-herring nitpick. Typical irrational modus operandi for you, isn't it?

It is not a fucking red-herring nitpick...you falsely claimed the Renaissance
began centuries after Columbus made his voyage. Someone as smart as
you should know better...

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-21 01:32pm

Steve wrote:Shep, stop saying things that I am in agreement with. It's making me feel... dirty.

LOL, for what it's worth, thanks...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-21 02:10pm

MKSheppard wrote:It is not a fucking red-herring nitpick...you falsely claimed the Renaissance began centuries after Columbus made his voyage. Someone as smart as you should know better...

Wrong. The point was that despite your claims, Columbus was obviously no humanist for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that the humanist movement (called "The Enlightenment", which I mistakenly called "The Renaissance" instead) started long after he was dead.

You nitpick the fact that I used the wrong name, while ignoring the point, which was that Columbus was an asshole, and your defense of him makes you an asshole (and a moron to boot, since you don't even know what a fucking red-herring is).

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-10-21 04:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:It is not a fucking red-herring nitpick...you falsely claimed the Renaissance began centuries after Columbus made his voyage. Someone as smart as you should know better...
Wrong. The point was that despite your claims, Columbus was obviously no humanist for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that the humanist movement (called "The Enlightenment", which I mistakenly called "The Renaissance" instead) started long after he was dead.

You nitpick the fact that I used the wrong name, while ignoring the point, which was that Columbus was an asshole, and your defense of him makes you an asshole (and a moron to boot, since you don't even know what a fucking red-herring is).

I know I'm nitpicking, but the humanist movement (and the Renaissance) did indeed begin years before Columbus was born, as early as the late thirteenth century, IIRC...the Renaissance continued into the very early seventeenth century. The Enlightenment began during the late seventeenth century with John Locke and lasted through the following century...while humanism didn't begin with the Enlightenment, it was further developed and expanded upon by Enlightenment intellectuals.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-21 04:28pm

Durran Korr wrote:I know I'm nitpicking, but the humanist movement (and the Renaissance) did indeed begin years before Columbus was born, as early as the late thirteenth century, IIRC...the Renaissance continued into the very early seventeenth century. The Enlightenment began during the late seventeenth century with John Locke and lasted through the following century...while humanism didn't begin with the Enlightenment, it was further developed and expanded upon by Enlightenment intellectuals.

Well, if you want to go that far, humanism began in ancient Greece. But that would be beside the point; Columbus was no humanist, and the early humanist movement to which you refer didn't accomplish squat.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-10-21 04:32pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:I know I'm nitpicking, but the humanist movement (and the Renaissance) did indeed begin years before Columbus was born, as early as the late thirteenth century, IIRC...the Renaissance continued into the very early seventeenth century. The Enlightenment began during the late seventeenth century with John Locke and lasted through the following century...while humanism didn't begin with the Enlightenment, it was further developed and expanded upon by Enlightenment intellectuals.
Well, if you want to go that far, humanism began in ancient Greece. But that would be beside the point; Columbus was no humanist, and the early humanist movement to which you refer didn't accomplish squat.

Well, of course he wasn't, he was serving the Spanish Monarchy, very much a non-humanist government.

And while you're right about the early humanist movement not accomplishing much, it was still fairly influential in the long run. Humanist influence over the gov't would not come until the Enlightenment.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-10-21 10:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Howedar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Hero worship of mass-murderers is nothing new in America; you still celebrate Genocidal Mass-Murderer Day (erm ... Columbus Day).
Never mind, of course, that Columbus did more than just introduce smallpox to the Americas. In addition, the accidental spreading of a disease is a bit of a stretch from "mass-murderer", don't you think?
Read your history books. Columbus massacred the natives the old-fashioned way; with knives and guns. At one point, his men rounded up pregnant women from local tribes, cut their bellies open, ripped out their unborn babies, and smashed their skulls in while the mothers bled to death, in order to show them who was boss. You really think all he did was introduce smallpox?

All right, I didn't know that. I concede that point. However, Colombus is not worshipped for his butchering of natives, but for whatever qualities he may have had that helped him get to the new world. For that matter, Colombus isn't really even the one celebrated. His discovery is.

Post by **Coyote** » 2002-10-21 11:37pm

A lot of losers worship the Third Reich because a perpetual loser, namely Adolph Hitler, maneuvered his way to the top of a country and scared the living hell out of millions of people, and killed millions more. They had flashy uniforms with pretty, shiny things on them to prop up flaccid egos and to this day you can scare soccer moms and make them distraught by dispalying a swatika spray-painted in the dark of night on the side of a wall.

By using Nazi imagery, a person with little personal power or force of personality can intimidate or scare those around him and feel good in the process. Bullies, in other words.

Ooooh, Scaarrr-ry!

Post by **Steve** » 2002-10-21 11:53pm

Coyote wrote:A lot of losers worship the Third Reich because a perpetual loser, namely Adolph Hitler, maneuvered his way to the top of a country and scared the living hell out of millions of people, and killed millions more. They had flashy uniforms with pretty, shiny things on them to prop up flaccid egos and to this day you can scare soccer moms and make them distraught by dispalying a swatika spray-painted in the dark of night on the side of a wall.

By using Nazi imagery, a person with little personal power or force of personality can intimidate or scare those around him and feel good in the process. Bullies, in other words.

Ooooh, Scaarrr-ry!

Swift, to-the-point, and ruthless.

I like that.

Icehawk · Post by **Icehawk** » 2002-10-22 12:11am

A lot of losers worship the Third Reich because a perpetual loser, namely Adolph Hitler, maneuvered his way to the top of a country and scared the living hell out of millions of people, and killed millions more. They had flashy uniforms with pretty, shiny things on them to prop up flaccid egos and to this day

Kinda reminds me of Bush and the US military. excluding the killing of millions thing although ya never know with Bush these days.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-22 12:14am

Icehawk wrote: Kinda reminds me of Bush and the US military. excluding the killing of millions thing although ya never know with Bush these days.

Hell, we've got the flashy camouflage uniforms like the SS, the coalscuttle
helmets like the SS, and of course, the black boots like the SS.....

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-22 12:20am

MKSheppard wrote:
Icehawk wrote: Kinda reminds me of Bush and the US military. excluding the killing of millions thing although ya never know with Bush these days.
Hell, we've got the flashy camouflage uniforms like the SS, the coalscuttle
helmets like the SS, and of course, the black boots like the SS.....

All we need is politicians calling for school prayer (like Hitler did) and intoning "God is with us" as our rallying cry, just like the "Gott mit uns" slogan on the Nazi belt buckles ... wait a minute, we have that (shudder).

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-22 12:23am

Darth Wong wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Hell, we've got the flashy camouflage uniforms like the SS, the coalscuttle
helmets like the SS, and of course, the black boots like the SS.....
All we need is politicians calling for school prayer (like Hitler did) and intoning "God is with us" as our rallying cry, just like the "Gott mit uns" slogan on the Nazi belt buckles ... wait a minute, we have that (shudder).

Yet another reason to distrust and dislike Dubya. Someone really should point Georgy-boy and Ashcroft the Asscrack to that part in the Constitution about no establishment of religion.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2002-10-22 12:23am

Darth Wong wrote: All we need is politicians calling for school prayer (like Hitler did) and intoning "God is with us" as our rallying cry, just like the "Gott mit uns" slogan on the Nazi belt buckles ... wait a minute, we have that (shudder).

[nitpick]

actually, there were two Nazi belt buckles.

Gott mit uns was for the Heer.

The SS had " Mein Ehre Heisst Treu" (my honor is my loyalty)
on their belt buckles.

[/nitpick]

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-22 01:15pm

Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-10-22 01:25pm

Cyril wrote:Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party!

Give me one reason not hurt you right now.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-22 02:41pm

Coyote wrote:A lot of losers worship the Third Reich because a perpetual loser, namely Adolph Hitler, maneuvered his way to the top of a country and scared the living hell out of millions of people, and killed millions more. They had flashy uniforms with pretty, shiny things on them to prop up flaccid egos and to this day you can scare soccer moms and make them distraught by dispalying a swatika spray-painted in the dark of night on the side of a wall.
By using Nazi imagery, a person with little personal power or force of personality can intimidate or scare those around him and feel good in the process. Bullies, in other words.
Ooooh, Scaarrr-ry!

Amen to that.