ID vs Evolution Success Stories

[D.Turtle]

Like the topic says, this is for all the success stories in the ID vs Evolution struggle.

Here is mine:
This all started some time ago (I mention it in this thread) with a television report about the spreading of ID to Europe. My parents were not very happy with the show, as in their eyes it attacked christianity, so they didn't really listen to the arguments being made.I didn't press the issue too much at that time, as I didn't think they were to open to a discussion about evolution just right then.
Fast forward to last Christmas. My grandparents, and the rest of my immediate family were there, and the topic turned back to evolution and the case of teaching ID in schools in the US.
This time I didn't keep quiet. My goal was to make them see that evolution has NOTHING to do with attacking christianity or their belief in God. My goal was to make them open to listening to the arguments about evolution and maybe even be convinced by them.
To do that, I first explained to them why the ID movement and its attempts to pressure/force schools to teach ID was wrong. Most of my arguments came from Ken Miller's talk on Intelligent Design - an absolutely outstanding video about the whole ID phenomenon. I also used Mike's explanations of what a Scientific Theory is and used his example of a car driving from A to B from his ID is Useless Page. They quite quickly understood the argument, and agreed that ID (or creationism) has no place in Biology in school.
It then turned to the standard Evolution vs creationism debate, with the usual arguments (Where are the missing links!) which I shot down, mainly due to stuff I heard on Ken Miller's Talk. It then wandered off to age of the Universe, origin of the Universe stuff, which has nothing to do with evolution, but ...
After my brother, who is a christian, had also joined in on my side and accused my grandparents of having a severe fundamentalist viewpoint of the Bible, my mother cut off the debate in order to not upset my grandparents too much. That was the end of the debate on Christmas.
I still was at home for a few days more, and had a long talk with my parents about evolution and how it was not contrary to christian belief. These were good, open talks, and my parents were very open to my explanations - more than I had expected. Before leaving, I told them I would send them a link to Ken Miller's talk and told them that it was very enlightening.
I sent them the link a few days ago.
Well, today I got a letter (I suck at calling people on the phone ) from my mother in which she says (among other things): "I think he [Ken Miller] is right: believing in God and being convinced of the Evolution Theory do not [emphasized in the original] exclude each other."

Well, I partly achieved my goal: My mother (probably my father too, haven't heard from him yet) now believes Evolution is right. Now only my grandparents are left

So, are there any other success stories out there?

And I have to say again: Ken Miller's Talk on Intelligent Design is an absolutely incredible video for showing people, in a non-confrontational way, why ID is wrong and Evolution right.

Note: This is about Evolution vs ID/creationism. Not Atheism vs Religion or religion bashing. There are places for that theme (correctly so), but please not in this thread.

[Tolya]

I still was at home for a few days more, and had a long talk with my parents about evolution and how it was not contrary to christian belief.

The problem is that the theory of evolution and namely Natural Selection does not encompass any form of divine being.

The only solution I can think of is that some form of divinity created the big-bang and then left everything on it's own.

But that really stands in opposition to the Bible (its more like deism) which says that God created the universe and it's beings. Even if we take it as a parable, then it still says that God created the World and Humans. Period. And this simply rules out any possibility that humans (among other species) evolved from "lower" species which is fundamental to the theory of evolution.

In a sense you are right, evolution does not attack christianity. It simply ignores it as it does not fit into the system. But I can't really think of a way that you can make christian religion agree with the theory of evolution.

Anyways, congrats on what you did. My parents are rather rational atheists so I don't have any problems at home, but convincing my grandmother that the Theory of Evolution is right would be a continous bashing on one of the strongest Walls of Ignorance ever assembled. And no logical argument would work because she is simply immune to such.

Be careful with your grandparents tho. Because they are much older their worldview has sinked into them much more strongly.

[bilateralrope]

The problem is that the theory of evolution and namely Natural Selection does not encompass any form of divine being.

The only solution I can think of is that some form of divinity created the big-bang and then left everything on it's own.

You could also believe that the divine being also gave nudges at various points, so that evolution produced the creatures he wanted.

[Tolya]

You could also believe that the divine being also gave nudges at various points, so that evolution produced the creatures he wanted.

Of course, but believing in this without any scientifical proof would not be really very wise, would it?

Evolution is a scientific theory that has been formed basing upon research, logic and empirical proof. "Believing" does not come into it.

Besides, that's not really christianity isnt it? I doubt that christian God would be able to make "subtle nudges". When he does something, it usually can be compared to an elephant in a porcelain warehouse.

[Bounty]

Even if we take it as a parable, then it still says that God created the World and Humans.

I have met a few christians who reconcile this by saying that it's a far greater show of power and wisdom to create a system that, through natural selection, leads to humans, than it is to create them directly. Isn't this also the RCC's view these days?

What I have noticed is that a lot of people still seem to think that the theory of evolution automatically excludes the existence of god in any shape or form. It's easy to see where this misinformation came from, but still quite annoying when you're faced with it; the idea that evolution = no god = no morals.

I still think the best way to handle this problem is by divorcing evolution from religion entirely on both sides of the debate. If you're trying to explain evolution to someone who believes in ID, don't do it by attacking the idea of an omnipotent god, don't mock them for believing in higher beings, but convince them that they can happily continue living with their religion while still being open to natural selection as a scientific theory as opposed to an antithesis to religion.

[Tolya]

I still think the best way to handle this problem is by divorcing evolution from religion entirely on both sides of the debate. If you're trying to explain evolution to someone who believes in ID, don't do it by attacking the idea of an omnipotent god, don't mock them for believing in higher beings, but convince them that they can happily continue living with their religion while still being open to natural selection as a scientific theory as opposed to an antithesis to religion.

Its the only way. How can you connect the topic of science and religious belief? You can't. That's why the two should be kept separate.

Evolution pissess christians of because it does not support their belief in God. It simply does not deal with it, because its not a proper tool.