Question on Quantum Singularities and Hyperspace

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-15 06:30pm

Ok, this have been discussed some time ago, but I'm a newbie and too lazy to do a thorough search. It is possible to create an artificial quantum singularity?

Also, on an unrelated note, how would one preceive light in hyperspace? It seems to me that any light given off by what ever lighting system is used on ship traveling through hyperspace would simply have the photons it emits pile-up on the back wall; or am I missing some important aspect of relativity?

Furthermore, how much mass would a tachyon have, if it exists?

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-15 06:48pm

First thing:

POKE

since the ship is traveling through hyperspace, which consists of higher dimensions than what we experience, that doesn't mean it's traveling faster than light.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-15 06:51pm

I also have singularity-related questions.

How small can one get, can it be "exploded/detonated", and how much energy will said explosion give out?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-01-15 06:58pm

Shinova wrote:I also have singularity-related questions.

How small can one get, can it be "exploded/detonated", and how much energy will said explosion give out?

I believe the explosion of a black hole marks its final death due to Hawking radiation, but no I don't know how small it gets before that.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-15 07:23pm

You could cause a black hole to quickly evaporate with a large influx of negative energy roughly equal to the mass of the black hole.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-15 07:26pm

According the Star Wars Technical Commentaries, SW hyperspace involves a transistion to the tachyonic 'realm', in which all mass is confined to travel faster than light. This is why I asked my second and third questions.

Shinvoa, singularities don't have a size. They are a point of mass with no length, height or width. I don't know if you can explode one, but ramming it at something (or ramming something at it) would convert all matter into energy, which would make one hell of a boom! Singularities don't have to be black holes (black holes contain a singularity, from what I've read of Hawkin's books), and can be of any mass as long as it lacks dimensions. So, back to original question - any ideas on how you create a singularity without compressing an insane amount of mass? Warping space? Particle accelerator? Some neat trick or technobabble?

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-15 08:05pm

Some neat trick or technobabble?

No technobabble!

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-01-15 08:39pm

If tachyons existed I'd think that they would be massless

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-15 08:57pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote: Shinvoa, singularities don't have a size. They are a point of mass with no length, height or width. I don't know if you can explode one, but ramming it at something (or ramming something at it) would convert all matter into energy, which would make one hell of a boom! Singularities don't have to be black holes (black holes contain a singularity, from what I've read of Hawkin's books), and can be of any mass as long as it lacks dimensions. So, back to original question - any ideas on how you create a singularity without compressing an insane amount of mass? Warping space? Particle accelerator? Some neat trick or technobabble?

Thanks. I was intending to one day make a sci-fi fic with a civilization that had a superweapon that was a singularity missile. Feasible in sci-fi terms?

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-15 10:15pm

After reading a couple chapters of "A Brief History of Time" just now, I'm not sure if its possible to make a singularity. Also according to the book (its the revised edition, btw), if Quantum Gravity Theory is correct, singularities might not exist (black holes still would, but it wouldn't have to contain a singularity). Looks like I'm going to have use matter/antimatter reactions for my sci-fi power source (solid blocks of heavy elements, none of this exploding Star Trek crap...).

Shinova, if you could find a way to make a singularity and keep it stable long enough to shot it, yeah, it would make an awesome superweapon.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-15 10:19pm

In sci-fi, something is considered "realistic" if the mathematics work out, even if there is no mechanism that can conceivably get the job done.

By that token, quite frankly, a device which magically converts arbitrary pieces of matter to energy is considered realistic. And compared to macroscopic natural wormholes, it is (in fact, that's what a black hole does naturally).

So, as silly as it sounds, you could have a sci-fi starship where the garbage chute feeds the reactor, and pretty much anything (solids, liquids, etc) that you shove in there will work. It's really no sillier than artificial gravity, which we all take for granted.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-15 10:24pm

By that token, quite frankly, a device which magically converts arbitrary pieces of matter to energy is considered realistic. And compared to macroscopic natural wormholes, it is (in fact, that's what a black hole does naturally).

Just to clarify, your saying black holes convert matter to energy?

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-15 10:25pm

Darth Wong, do you think it's possible to use a singularity to power a starship? I know that we can harness black holes using magnetic fields, so why not?

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-15 10:26pm

Yes. Once matter or energy is drawn into a black hole, the distinction between the two is lost. As that black hole gradually evapourates, it releases pure energy.

As I said, having the toilets flush into the reactor for power is, by the standards of sci-fi, quite realistic because the math works out, and black holes do it naturally.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-15 10:26pm

So, Lord Wong, your best suggestion for someone writing scifi is "dont give equations"? LOL

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-15 10:27pm

jaeger115 wrote:Darth Wong, do you think it's possible to use a singularity to power a starship? I know that we can harness black holes using magnetic fields, so why not?

We can't use magnetic fields to make singularities. I'm just saying that black holes prove that it is possible to convert matter to energy without having to use antimatter. And anything which occurs in nature is infinitely more realistic than 90% of sci-fi technologies, even if it only occurs in such a place as a black hole.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-15 10:28pm

kojikun wrote:So, Lord Wong, your best suggestion for someone writing scifi is "dont give equations"? LOL

Just one equation in this case: E=mc^2.

Actually, more equations and less technobabble would be nice.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-15 10:29pm

btw if tachyons exist, they could have mass. its theorised that the asymtotic that is applied to C works reversely. Meaning, it is impossible to DECELLERATE to C and the faster you go the less energy you require. I'm not sure if the equations for this work out tho they may. But massless tachyons already exist: Photons. They dont naturally go FTL, but they can be made to do so.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-15 10:31pm

Actually, more equations and less technobabble would be nice.

Really? Equations for what, exactly? I mean, if its bullshit physics, coming up with equations would be hard. It takes alot of brain power to come up with good equations to explain physical properties..

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-15 10:32pm

So I guess if one could warp space properly and simulate some gravity in that warped area, you could probably get away with a singularity.

(Being in an engineering field has apparantly given me a preoccupation with the 'how it works' of sci-fi devices. Its fiction, dammit!)

Oh, and how would a person preceive light if he/she was a tachyon?

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-15 10:34pm

We can't use magnetic fields to make singularities. I'm just saying that black holes prove that it is possible to convert matter to energy without having to use antimatter. And anything which occurs in nature is infinitely more realistic than 90% of sci-fi technologies, even if it only occurs in such a place as a black hole.

I didn't say that. I meant to use magnetic fields to MOVE singularities. If we can put a magnetic-field chamber around a black hole and construct the starship around it, then make the singularity spin and feed it plenty of matter, then you're have a fucking shitload of energy.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-15 10:35pm

I'd like to see the engine your going to use to move several solar masses

ben · Post by **ben** » 2003-01-16 03:47am

didn't one of Niven's man-kzin wars books showed off a black holed powered device or ship?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-16 06:44am

AdmiralKanos wrote:Yes. Once matter or energy is drawn into a black hole, the distinction between the two is lost. As that black hole gradually evapourates, it releases pure energy.

As I said, having the toilets flush into the reactor for power is, by the standards of sci-fi, quite realistic because the math works out, and black holes do it naturally.

Thats what I've been thinking, well not the toilet thing.
Whats the efficency ratio?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-16 06:46am

Arrow Mk84 wrote:I'd like to see the engine your going to use to move several solar masses

In that case it's better to "create" a singularity no? Like a micro-singularity.