Near death experiences

Shrykull · Post by **Shrykull** » 2003-01-18 02:01am

Hey Mike, I was wondering with regards to the Paula Davis exchange, when you mentioned that religious epiphanies are brain dysfunctions when do people usually have these dysfunctions, near death situations? I know someone who said when she was young and stupid she OD'ed on cocaine, and "died and came back" and when I asked her what she experienced she said it was too incredible to describe, sounds like this might have been one of them. And I've heard other stories, about people seeing a bright light and a luminous tunnel, even heard one about a woman who said she died, went to hell, and that Jesus found her and brought her back to life.
This makes me curious, let's say you took someone who never ever heard of a god, demon, angel or anything supernatural, or of religion entirely, and they had a near death experience, what would they tell you after they came back from a near death experience?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-18 02:04am

Impossible to theorize, since all cultures have some sort of belief in a god/dess of one or many inclinations or the supernatural. There has not yet been a culture discovered without a belief in more than just the natural world.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-18 02:12am

I'm thinking that what they would see is something from their heads. It has to have some basis in what they have experienced themselves.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-18 03:51pm

Shrykull wrote:This makes me curious, let's say you took someone who never ever heard of a god, demon, angel or anything supernatural, or of religion entirely, and they had a near death experience, what would they tell you after they came back from a near death experience?

I think that he/she probably would explain it be mumbling something about space aliens, if the person in question believed in the existence of extraterrestrial life. And I'll bet that the aliens described will be SGAs.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-01-18 04:16pm

Most researchers think they're hallucinations caused by hormones like endorphines or something. I'm inclinded to think they're real, but have no relation to the afterlife whatsoever.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-01-18 08:32pm

Exonerate wrote:Most researchers think they're hallucinations caused by hormones like endorphines or something. I'm inclinded to think they're real, but have no relation to the afterlife whatsoever.

Could be like the movie Flatliners.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-01-18 08:48pm

neoolong wrote:
Exonerate wrote:Most researchers think they're hallucinations caused by hormones like endorphines or something. I'm inclinded to think they're real, but have no relation to the afterlife whatsoever.
Could be like the movie Flatliners.

That movie was beautifull!

Okay, on-topic...
A near-death experience can go far enough to achieve molecular breakdown of the synaptic links, the tunnel of light, life momemnts flashing, and whatnot, are the stored memories and brain functions being destroyed. Which way a revived person interperts it, is subjective, as much as ink blots, or shapes in the clouds.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-18 09:04pm

People in near death scenerios see what they are conditioned to see. As to what causes it, there are many possibilities, such as hormones, loss of blood to the brain, etc. In fact, fighter pilots, when recovering from G-lock, experience similiar near death feelings. They get "the light", the feeling of being out of the body, and other weird things. I personally have come close to but never G-locked, however, if I ever do I will make sure to tell you what it's like.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-18 09:06pm

There is also some question as to when they are seeing these things. People who experience these things generally assume they experienced them throughout the whole experience, rather than blanking out for part of it and then experiencing things during the recovery.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-01-18 09:09pm

And don't forget the brain-bug effect. You can count on every "distant light" experience to be dully noted counted as evidence by the defenders of an afterlife and alike, but the cases of people who recovered and didn't have such a story to tell are certainly quickly forgotten.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-19 12:13am

My own experience on this: take as you will.

I decided to "celebrate" my 26th birthday by getting really drunk. I ended up drinking two-thirds of a bottle of Bacardi 151, and then waking up the next morning with alcohol poisoning and finishing off the bottle along with *umm* another substance. The day that followed was the single most hellish experience of my life. At one point I remember with eerie clarity standing over my body as I lay on the bathroom floor, where I had crawled to throw up. I was looking down at my pale, unmoving body thinking "dead all alone in a bathroom... how pathetic." The next two days I was so weak I could barely move and my skin had no color to it whatsoever. I seriously doubt that my heart actually stopped, because there would have been no one there to revive me. My take on it would be that very strange things were going on in my brain at the time, and that's all there was to it.

Two days later when I recovered my strength enough to get out of bed, I went to work and watched as the Trade Towers were brought down on TV. It put everything in perspective.

jaeger115 · Post by **jaeger115** » 2003-01-19 12:28am

This thread reminds me of my friend who's a wacko christian. A few years ago, she claimed that she had a near-death experience in which she actually saw a light at the end of a tunnel. And bathed in that light was the outline of a human figure, arms outstretched. Naturally, she took it to be God, but I told her that she was hallunicating due to the lack of blood flow to her brain. And naturally she vehemently denied it and denounced my atheism.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-19 12:37am

There was an article on this near-death experience thing. Most people seem to have had visions of a tunnel of light and God+angels picking them up or something.

The article said that the tunnel of light is actually the birth canal that the person as a baby had to go through and the God+angels were actually memories of the doctor+nurses that helped the baby out.

Perhaps a near-death experience causes a person to experience the earliest conscious memory they know, which would be their actual birth.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-19 12:42am

Does that have anything to do with "layered memories" (i.e., sexually molested not being able to 'read' those memories until they experience something on a similar "mental" state?)

In any case I think "life after death" is too inherently oxymoronic . . .

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-19 12:58am

What I'd like to know is how come no one ever mentions seeing a lake of fire and devils with pitchforks? Or do lawyers and politicians not have near-death experiences often?

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2003-01-19 02:32am

Shrykull wrote:Hey Mike, I was wondering with regards to the Paula Davis exchange, when you mentioned that religious epiphanies are brain dysfunctions when do people usually have these dysfunctions, near death situations? I know someone who said when she was young and stupid she OD'ed on cocaine, and "died and came back" and when I asked her what she experienced she said it was too incredible to describe, sounds like this might have been one of them. And I've heard other stories, about people seeing a bright light and a luminous tunnel, even heard one about a woman who said she died, went to hell, and that Jesus found her and brought her back to life.
This makes me curious, let's say you took someone who never ever heard of a god, demon, angel or anything supernatural, or of religion entirely, and they had a near death experience, what would they tell you after they came back from a near death experience?

Near death, the brain is usually experiencing trauma. This may cause the neurons to fire wildly and randomly. Often this leads to bizzare subjective effects that the person's brain tries to categorize and describe after they were revived. The most handy signposts for this categorization usually involve things that the individual has been indoctrinated with the most rigorously. As a result, a lot of NDEs happen to incorporate elements which are most familiar to the person in relation to death. This is why Christians who suffer NDEs tend to see lots of Christian imagery in them, even though what they were experiencing was actually brain trauma.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-19 11:58am

Well, this may not be much of contribution, but...

I've passed out several times in my life (due to injury), and each time I've had a different experience. The first time I recall falling through a tunnel and then seeing a bright light. This was probably the back of my head hitting the floor. Second time I don't remember. Third time I somehow ended up in some bad TV show; thankfully my dog was able to wake me up from that nightmare. But no angels or deep, booming voices.

Some else told me about a friend of theirs who had actually died in the ER and was brought back to life. All he remembered was a 'peaceful nothingness'.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-01-19 01:51pm

I saw an interesting study that showed that a particular drug was linked to NDE's during the Vietnam War. It appears that some of them are indeed genuine hallucinations generated by a series of bio-chemical responses to different things, triggered by trauma.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-01-19 03:25pm

I'm going to share something with all of you that you may find totally unbelievable: I've had a near-death experience. When I was 15 years old, I had a misunderstanding with an electrical storm. It was convinced that I shouldn't walk around with a metal bowl full of water, and I was pretty sure I should. Well, the electricity won the argument, and when the EMTs got there, my pulse and respiration had gone the way of Sonny Bono. Obviously, I'm feeling much better now.

Do you want to know what I saw? Nada. That's right. I stood at the Gates of Nowhere and Jack T. Shit was there waiting for me.

I hear these stories from people, mainly other members of the LSESS, and I can't help thinking that I got royally ripped off.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2003-01-19 04:58pm

This thread reminds me of the classic Farside cartoon. You know, the one with the doctors holding a flash light over a patient on the operating table.

Biddybot · Post by **Biddybot** » 2003-01-19 06:33pm

I've only heard of one near-death experience that didn't sound like a total cliche to me, and it comes second-hand via an ex-infrantry pal. To wit: One of his friends, also an infantry guy, was in a motorcycle accident. He was badly hurt and his heart stopped, then was restarted within a few minutes while he was being worked on in emergency--the usual scenario. Months later, when the injured guy was fully recovered, he confessed to my pal during a bit of a drunk tear that he had indeed had a classic out-of-body experience while 'dead'. The startling aspect was that whatever he'd seen--he wouldn't specify--it had impressed him so much that he claimed he no longer feared death and what's more, no longer cared if other people died or if he killed someone himself, even if he ran over a kid or took out a whole family during an auto accident, it didn't matter anymore because he now knew that he would really be doing them a favour. My friend said the guy seemed perfectly sincere, too. I've never heard of a reaction like this before or since. It's a tad scary...

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-19 06:38pm

The whole tunnel of light thing can be explained very easily. When you start to lose oxygen to your brain, two things happen to your eyes: First, you start to lose your periephal vision, then you start to lose color. Eventually, you can only see grey and whites, and you vision starts shrinking down to a small tunnel. Any pilot that has pulled a significant amount of Gs, including myself, can atest to this.

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2003-01-20 02:48pm

Many years ago, I was doing some breathing exercises that involved slowing down my breathing so that each breath would take a full minute to complete. After about 15 minutes, I was feeling pretty strange from the lack of oxygen reaching my brain. Suddenly, I saw the face of god...

It was Natalie from "The Facts of Life", only she was wearing kaboki makeup. Wondering why I would have such a strange vision, I spent some time in contemplation over the origin of it.

I traced it back to an episode of "Night Court" where Bull gets hit by lightning and has a vision of Tootie. The only conclusion I can reach is that I watch far too much bad television.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2003-01-20 03:10pm

Shinova wrote:There was an article on this near-death experience thing. Most people seem to have had visions of a tunnel of light and God+angels picking them up or something.

The article said that the tunnel of light is actually the birth canal that the person as a baby had to go through and the God+angels were actually memories of the doctor+nurses that helped the baby out.

Perhaps a near-death experience causes a person to experience the earliest conscious memory they know, which would be their actual birth.

Carl Sagan wrote something about this in one of his books, Broca's Brain, I think...

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-01-20 03:17pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:The whole tunnel of light thing can be explained very easily. When you start to lose oxygen to your brain, two things happen to your eyes: First, you start to lose your periephal vision, then you start to lose color. Eventually, you can only see grey and whites, and you vision starts shrinking down to a small tunnel. Any pilot that has pulled a significant amount of Gs, including myself, can atest to this.

Thanks for the info, WP.

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