While waiting on line outside for free burgers and hotdogs (the university was having some event that I wasn't aware of), I heard some guys talking about Jesus freaks who had come to campus talking about how gays and Muslims were evil. I looked across the campus and sure enough there was a crowd of people surrounding a pair of guys, with police on hand to enforce security. I had class in a few minutes, but I made up my mind to have a few words with them once I got out.
I went back about an hour and a half later, and the fundies were still debating and preaching. However, the big crowd had dwindled down to maybe eight or ten people. I was disappointed that I wouldn't be able challenge them on a bigger stage, but I figured I could refute a few choice pieces of bullshit and plant some seeds of doubt in the minds of the few moderate Christians or fencesitters who might still be watching.
The two fundies were young men, both pleasant-looking and well dressed. They had obviously rehearsed everything they were saying or would have to say beforehand, so they sounded as nice as could be as they went over the standard fundie bullet points:
-Evolution is not good science.
-Darwin repented on his death bed.
-Dinosaurs and man coexisted once upon a time.
-All those prehistoric human ancestors that have been dug up have been debunked as hoaxes (even though the fundies claimed that the bodies of 12-foot biblical giants have been found
)-The Great Flood really happened.
-The Bible is inerrant.
-Yadda Yadda Yadda
I patiently stood there listening to this crap, waiting for the moment to strike. These guys had practiced discussing these topics while I had not, and I didn't want to let them "win" in the eyes of the audience through some verbal trickery. I also held back because I saw how quickly they dismissed evidence as "hoaxes"; if I wasn't careful the debate could easily degenerate into "That's a hoax!" "No it's not!" crap.
Then someone else stepped up to the plate. He started off well enough, debating the fundies point-by-point while maintaining the same calm, friendly exterior as they did. He got in a nice backhanded swipe at them: when the fundies claimed that the Flood happened because a massive fucking canopy of water in the sky came crashing down on Earth, he responded with "That's pretty comical." Both he and the fundies stayed calm and pretended to be all polite throughout this.
Then the topic switched to ethics. The fundies claimed that even though atheists or followers of other religions may live morally, that's because they have God in their hearts and are just denying his existence. Without God to serve as a basis, everything is meaningless and there is no morality, so uh, therefore God is the logical belief.
That's when things took a turn for the worse. The guy who was debating them revealed himself to be an idiot and a douche. He stated that there are no morals whatsoever (not just that they are subjectively, if pragmatically created by humanity), and that he didn't live by any morals. He did say that humanity did what was practical so it could survive. But then the fundie fired back that Hitler (who he tied to Evolution as an aside
) did what was practical, and that his eugenics would weed out the weak. If there's no God, then why was Hitler wrong? The guy who was debating them had no response to that (I would have smacked it down by refuting its supposed pragmatism, then going into a discussion about how it causes harm to other human beings, who we're naturally ingrained to care for) and even went ahead and said that it would be okay to execute disabled people. By now I was practically jumping at the chance to insert myself into this debate, because the fundie was getting away with bullshit while the other guy was making non-Christians look like a bunch of fucking maniacs. However, the two of them were so engrossed in their debate that neither of them noticed me.By the time the two of them finished debating, the fundies were packing up and ready to call it a day, and the crowd of spectators had disappeared altogether. I had planned to spend a few hours in the library doing some work, so I wasn't eager to stay either. A few members from what I believe to be the university's Christian club (an assumption I'm making based on the way the reacted to what was being said) had wandered over some time during the debate, and they were the only ones left. They seemed to be outwardly friendly, if unthinking people. One of them was a nice guy who I didn't really know that well (I wasn't aware that he was part of any Christian organization) but always said hi to me whenever we passed each other. He saw that I had wanted to say something, and insisted that I talk with the fundie before I left. I was in no mood to stay (I wanted a smack down, not standing around for 45 minutes listening to a fundie debate a dumbass), but he put me on the spot by calling for the fundie himself. I unenthusiastically questioned the fundie claims that all morality stems from God, but seeing as how I was surrounded by Christians with no one to actually convince, I didn't get nasty or try to push the issue. The fundie gave his stupid response then stuck out his hand for me to shake, which I did before leaving (ugh).
Fuck "politeness" and fuck verbal debates. If only I could have gone SD.net on their asses.
