Nano-technology technowank?

[Vympel]

The Army has given the New Jersey Institute of Technology an $838,000 contract to develop a new "smart paint" for combat vehicles. This coating, containing nano-machines, could detect when it is scratched or corroded and repair itself, preventing the vehicle from being exposed by heat leaks or radar reflections. The paint would even be able to notify the vehicle crew when the coating is unable to repair itself. Further developments of this nano-paint technology are expected to lead to tanks that can change colors as the move through various types of terrain or as the weather and sunlight change.--Stephen V Cole

This looks like a load of crap to me ... partly anyway.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

<TIM ALLEN>
Hruuhh?
</TIM ALLEN>

[kheegster]

It's not like anyone can do fuck nuts with that amount of money...

[Xon]

Tack 3-4 zeros on the end and you might get something that works.

[Mr Bean]

$838,000

Piff thats drop in the ocean of the Federual Budget

Either these guys can acutal delive what they are talking about or we are paying for the resurchers to get new Harileys

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's bullshit. The price I mean. The technology is perfectly doable unless anyone here has a good reason why it isn't other than "YU0R D01NG T3CHN0 w4NK!!!11"

It must be added that such tech is also being looked at by fabric companies for new clothes, decorating companies for "smart walls" like Bill Gates but not giant LCD screens and also make-up that alters colour with varying temperatures.

The term nanotech does not refer only to little machines made by man, by the way. Nanomachines or nanotech devices can be anything from microtech devices (better than having a separate microtech division) used to assemble molecules to protein machines like ribosomes. The human cell is a good look at how complicated these machines can be.

[Vympel]

It is partly technowank. For example: the claim

"This coating, containing nano-machines, could detect when it is scratched or corroded and repair itself, preventing the vehicle from being exposed by heat leaks or radar reflections. The paint would even be able to notify the vehicle crew when the coating is unable to repair itself"

How exactly does it repair itself? Are these nanomachines nano-paint factories now?

[Admiral Valdemar]

It is partly technowank. For example: the claim

"This coating, containing nano-machines, could detect when it is scratched or corroded and repair itself, preventing the vehicle from being exposed by heat leaks or radar reflections. The paint would even be able to notify the vehicle crew when the coating is unable to repair itself"

How exactly does it repair itself? Are these nanomachines nano-paint factories now?

How does a human cell repair itself or a protein even? They're so small and feeble.

While it may not be technically possible just yet, it is not technowank.

Mechas, moon sized battlestations and gigaton pistols are technowank; this is just really vague.

For instance, today we have chemical tests and thermal compounds made from proteins that change colour when a different chemical or temperature is detected, this is just taking it a step further by making the properties change when given a certain set of parameters to follow.

The "machines" could alter colours by electrical or electro-chemical signals conducted around the hull of the vehicle. If a section is damaged then it could be detected by lack of any real conduction of current and this could alert the users to say their camouflage is compromised to which they could spray addtional charged machines around that area remotely that produce an even finish and cover up the broken area.

Of course in battle this is really useless since any hits will scrape off the e-paint, but by that point camo isn't the factor, armour is.

I shall be following this with anticipation of good results. People said that RAM paint couldn't be feasible in all weather conditions if at all, but it is now.

[Darth Wong]

How exactly does it repair itself? Are these nanomachines nano-paint factories now?

How does a human cell repair itself or a protein even? They're so small and feeble.

Precisely, which is why they:

A) die constantly and must be replenished
B) require a constant supply of nutrients

Funny how people touting nanotech-wank always remember the strengths of natural examples and not the weaknesses. Strong sunlight will fry nanomachines: that's exactly the kind of robustness you need in a military vehicle

Some kind of electrically alterable paint might work; it's amazing the things you can do with the right chemicals (metallic nickel vapour deposition, for example, is a chemically catalyzed process rather than the super-high-temp process you would expect). But nanomachines sound like a goofy idea to me.

[Peregrin Toker]

The Army has given the New Jersey Institute of Technology an $838,000 contract to develop a new "smart paint" for combat vehicles. This coating, containing nano-machines, could detect when it is scratched or corroded and repair itself, preventing the vehicle from being exposed by heat leaks or radar reflections. The paint would even be able to notify the vehicle crew when the coating is unable to repair itself. Further developments of this nano-paint technology are expected to lead to tanks that can change colors as the move through various types of terrain or as the weather and sunlight change.--Stephen V Cole

.

And when will the New Jersey Institute Of Technology be finished??? The 41st Millennium??

[Admiral Valdemar]

How exactly does it repair itself? Are these nanomachines nano-paint factories now?

How does a human cell repair itself or a protein even? They're so small and feeble.

Precisely, which is why they:

A) die constantly and must be replenished
B) require a constant supply of nutrients

Funny how people touting nanotech-wank always remember the strengths of natural examples and not the weaknesses. Strong sunlight will fry nanomachines: that's exactly the kind of robustness you need in a military vehicle

Some kind of electrically alterable paint might work; it's amazing the things you can do with the right chemicals (metallic nickel vapour deposition, for example, is a chemically catalyzed process rather than the super-high-temp process you would expect). But nanomachines sound like a goofy idea to me.

Actually proteins are amazingly resistant to UV and don't need replenishing, the human cell example was to show how small devices can work, I DIDN'T say they were self-sufficient, self-replicating armies of Borg probes that could do all sorts of amazing things.

The nanomachines idea seems to have been somewhat vague. A protein is for all intents and purposes a nanomachine. Proteins are used in colour changing materials and chemical tests when the pH or electrical potential alters, the proteins alter or use another substrate and change colour. Proteins are extremely robust.

So you see, it can be a smart paint produced by something or other or "nanomachines" but not in the "technowank" sense. It will still be interesting to see what they come up with since flexible LCD panels were the first idea in this concept, I can't imagine a tank with the equivalent of several mm^2 of TV on it doing too well.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Incidentally, isn't this application being discussed with aircraft like the F/A-22 and the Boeing "Bird of Prey" which both utilise low visibility, RAM materials.

That Bird of Prey is amazingly difficult to spot in flight, if it could alter skin colour via smart paint then it could adapt an optic camouflage for other terrains and be useful for NOE flight.

[Soulman]

Incidentally, isn't this application being discussed with aircraft like the F/A-22 and the Boeing "Bird of Prey" which both utilise low visibility, RAM materials.

That Bird of Prey is amazingly difficult to spot in flight, if it could alter skin colour via smart paint then it could adapt an optic camouflage for other terrains and be useful for NOE flight.

Smart camo probably isn't that far off, you could use semi-conducting polymers which change colour when a voltage to them, cover a tank in this and you would be able to change the colour scheme on the fly (New Scientist 18 Jan 2003). Actually it could be even applied to uniforms...

[Lord_Xerxes]

How exactly does it repair itself? Are these nanomachines nano-paint factories now?

For me, it brings to mind what I've heard about self-healing plastics.

[Admiral Valdemar]

How exactly does it repair itself? Are these nanomachines nano-paint factories now?

For me, it brings to mind what I've heard about self-healing plastics.

The very same field infact. If you look at the team they have selected, they all specialise in either materials science, buckytubes, chemistry and so on. They are getting an extra $1.5M to fund the project over the next year and so far they are looking at electronically controlled nanofibres I think.

It will be quite impressive.

[jaeger115]

The DoD could have given the NJIT that kind of money to develop battle-hardened smart paint.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The DoD could have given the NJIT that kind of money to develop battle-hardened smart paint.

How do you mean?

The paint is to aid optical invisibility amongst the background, it's not meant to supplement the armour. Once you are found there is no paint in the world that will stop a 120mm APFSDS doing 2km/s into your side.

Nowadays it is prevention rathe than protection since weapons and armour are always outdoing one another.

[Peregrin Toker]

Smart camo probably isn't that far off, you could use semi-conducting polymers which change colour when a voltage to them, cover a tank in this and you would be able to change the colour scheme on the fly (New Scientist 18 Jan 2003).

Don't trust sensationalist magazines like "New Scientist" too much. They're not really scientific journals, more akin to "Popular Mechanics" for other people than DIY guys.

[Shinova]

*Reads nanotech claim above*



I'll wait at least 60 years before coming back to check up on that.

[The_Nice_Guy]

Maybe it'll happen sooner than most of us think. Self assembling molecules taking their inspiration from biological systems is all the rage nowadays, or so I hear.

However, there's still a great deal of research to be done before the field is considered mature enough to have viable technological applications. My guess is 20 years, and probably the next wave of tech advancement after biotech.

The Nice Guy

[Admiral Valdemar]

Maybe it'll happen sooner than most of us think. Self assembling molecules taking their inspiration from biological systems is all the rage nowadays, or so I hear.

However, there's still a great deal of research to be done before the field is considered mature enough to have viable technological applications. My guess is 20 years, and probably the next wave of tech advancement after biotech.

The Nice Guy

The problem is making the actual first proper nanomachine, it takes a helluva time.

But nanotech is used today and is steadily gathering pace, much of it is shown in New Scientist which reports on new science (funnily enough) and does not profess to be a research paper. It's a newspaper for science and it gives you the overall story on the tech or theories then any links if you want to look more indepth.

There was something in a few issues back about capsules with special cells in to help cure a blindness disease like Onchcerciasis. The cells were protected in a small capsule that had nanopores inside to allow certain chemicals out but no antibodies etc. in.

Course, when most people hear nanotech they think "Grey Goo" and end of the world or super Borg nanoprobes of Doom. Maybe one day we will have decent nanomachines, but not like that, molecular manufacturing is good for just that; molecules. Why build a bog standard car at that level?

[Montcalm]

The Army has given the New Jersey Institute of Technology an $838,000 contract to develop a new "smart paint" for combat vehicles. This coating, containing nano-machines, could detect when it is scratched or corroded and repair itself, preventing the vehicle from being exposed by heat leaks or radar reflections. The paint would even be able to notify the vehicle crew when the coating is unable to repair itself. Further developments of this nano-paint technology are expected to lead to tanks that can change colors as the move through various types of terrain or as the weather and sunlight change.--Stephen V Cole

This looks like a load of crap to me ... partly anyway.

Maybe in fifty years it will be doable but for now its just a dream.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The Army has given the New Jersey Institute of Technology an $838,000 contract to develop a new "smart paint" for combat vehicles. This coating, containing nano-machines, could detect when it is scratched or corroded and repair itself, preventing the vehicle from being exposed by heat leaks or radar reflections. The paint would even be able to notify the vehicle crew when the coating is unable to repair itself. Further developments of this nano-paint technology are expected to lead to tanks that can change colors as the move through various types of terrain or as the weather and sunlight change.--Stephen V Cole

This looks like a load of crap to me ... partly anyway.

Maybe in fifty years it will be doable but for now its just a dream.

They have at least 15 people with Ph.Ds in the areas needed for such a task. They seem confidant they can pull something out of the programme, I'm inclined to believe them unless anyone has a good reason why not.

[Pu-239]

why don't they just use the e-ink stuff. I don't know about the usefullness of it if damaged though.

[Baron Mordo]

And when will the New Jersey Institute Of Technology be finished??? The 41st Millennium??

I'll bet the Imperium has that stuff.