Idiot science teachers

[Shrykull]

I remember in 6th grade (this was 90-91) we had a school project where we would plan a (hypothetical) trip to a planet of our choice. One group in a class chose Uranus, and their ship had a matter/anti-matter drive. I asked the teacher what anti-matter was and she said "What?" Like she didn't know what I was talking about!

Then later the group told me anti-matter wasn't real, so I assumed it wasn't, but it turns out the anti-proton was discovered in the 50's, and not only that, it's what won Emilio Segrè and Owen Chamberlain a nobel prize in 1959! The positron was discovered in 1932! What gives? Did she deserve to be a science teacher, do you think? Sure, we haven't made anti matter spacecraft yet if we ever can, CERN says the entropy problem ensures we never will, but not even knowing about it

I also know that some high school science teachers spread the myth that infrared is actually heat.

I've read here that most high school science teachers in most countries don't require a science degree, not sure about middle school. I don't know about the US though, or perhaps Massachusetts in general (maybe we have a reputation to uphold with all the good colleges here, Harvard, Brandeis, MIT, Radcliffe) I can photocopy the teachers credentials out the yearbook if you want, they all have science degrees.

[Dooey Jo]

Well, did she teach good science? I don't remember what kind of science we studied in 6th grade but I'm sure it had absolutely nothing to do with nuclear physics and certainly not anti-matter. We did, however, have a very knowledgeable teacher who could have explained what anti-matter is (and he also had us make space ships), though I'm pretty sure that most 6th-graders wouldn't be able to understand it (hell, most of them didn't even understand normal relative motion)...

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

In the United States, as far as what I have been told, teachers must have a degree in the field they teach. It's part of the certification programme for "highly qualified professionals." For example, the advisers I have say I cannot be a history teacher without a degree in history. I would hope it would be the same for science. Or else they are lying to me.

Some here have said that teachers haven't had degrees due to shortage, though. I guess in those situations they will relax the conditions.

[Darth Wong]

I remember in 6th grade (this was 90-91) we had a school project where we would plan a (hypothetical) trip to a planet of our choice. One group in a class chose Uranus, and their ship had a matter/anti-matter drive. I asked the teacher what anti-matter was and she said "What?" Like she didn't know what I was talking about!

Then later the group told me anti-matter wasn't real, so I assumed it wasn't, but it turns out the anti-proton was discovered in the 50's, and not only that, it's what won Emilio Segrè and Owen Chamberlain a nobel prize in 1959! The positron was discovered in 1932! What gives? Did she deserve to be a science teacher, do you think? Sure, we haven't made anti matter spacecraft yet if we ever can, CERN says the entropy problem ensures we never will, but not even knowing about it

I also know that some high school science teachers spread the myth that infrared is actually heat.

I've read here that most high school science teachers in most countries don't require a science degree, not sure about middle school. I don't know about the US though, or perhaps Massachusetts in general (maybe we have a reputation to uphold with all the good colleges here, Harvard, Brandeis, MIT, Radcliffe) I can photocopy the teachers credentials out the yearbook if you want, they all have science degrees.

There are definitely some idiot science teachers out there (shortages of fully qualified teachers are a bitch), but ignorance of antimatter doesn't necessarily make a high school science teacher an idiot. The fact is that antimatter is an area of science that has almost no relation to any kind of useful science that is being conducted anywhere in the world today or in any job that you are ever likely to find yourself in. Knowledge of it is nothing more than trivia and sci-fi geekdom for the vast majority of people. A high-school teacher could be quite brilliant at teaching, say, chemistry, and not know what antimatter is.

It is the bane of our age that people think of scientific comprehension in terms of "do you know the latest news and coolest ideas" rather than a comprehension of the elegant interconnection of basic concepts which is the real backbone of science. There are plenty of Google-taught self-declared science experts who know all about antimatter, string theory ... and are creationists.

[Count Dooku]

I remember in 6th grade (this was 90-91) we had a school project where we would plan a (hypothetical) trip to a planet of our choice.

Hey, we did the exact same project when I was in the 6th grade (this was in the laste 90's). I chose Europa. My reasoning was that water is too hard to bring, and it's difficult to recycle air. So, we'd have just enough food, water, and air to make it there, but once there, we'd have a nuclear reactor to melt ice for drink-able water, and like nuclear submarines, we'd be able to get air from from the water. Of course, being a sixth grader, I only knew what I saw on the Discovery channel and could put two and two together - I had absolutely no idea how any of that was going to work. Lol.

On the subject of idiot teachers, my freshman English teacher was insistent that the banned book list for grade schoolers needed to be expanded. She was so afraid that kids were going to read books that would turn them into an evil atheist, like Hitler. Yes, she literally did say that. I didn't have the guts to get up and walk out of class when she said it, but well over half the class did, and they went straight to the department dean and complained. It was great because so many of us use voice recorders for our lectures. Needless to say, she was forced to change her lecture material (to what it was actually supposed to be) very quickly, and the department dean sat in on every lecture for the rest of the semester. It was fantastic.

[Darth Servo]

When I was back in 6th grade (1985) it was still grade school; all day with one teacher and no dedicated science class (or dedicated anything class for that matter). Just general ed.

[Winston Blake]

The fact is that antimatter is an area of science that has almost no relation to any kind of useful science that is being conducted anywhere in the world today or in any job that you are ever likely to find yourself in. Knowledge of it is nothing more than trivia and sci-fi geekdom for the vast majority of people.

True for the vast majority, although there's a minority of people who design or operate PET scanners.

[Shrykull]

I remember in 6th grade (this was 90-91) we had a school project where we would plan a (hypothetical) trip to a planet of our choice. One group in a class chose Uranus, and their ship had a matter/anti-matter drive. I asked the teacher what anti-matter was and she said "What?" Like she didn't know what I was talking about!

Then later the group told me anti-matter wasn't real, so I assumed it wasn't, but it turns out the anti-proton was discovered in the 50's, and not only that, it's what won Emilio Segrè and Owen Chamberlain a nobel prize in 1959! The positron was discovered in 1932! What gives? Did she deserve to be a science teacher, do you think? Sure, we haven't made anti matter spacecraft yet if we ever can, CERN says the entropy problem ensures we never will, but not even knowing about it

I also know that some high school science teachers spread the myth that infrared is actually heat.

I've read here that most high school science teachers in most countries don't require a science degree, not sure about middle school. I don't know about the US though, or perhaps Massachusetts in general (maybe we have a reputation to uphold with all the good colleges here, Harvard, Brandeis, MIT, Radcliffe) I can photocopy the teachers credentials out the yearbook if you want, they all have science degrees.

There are definitely some idiot science teachers out there (shortages of fully qualified teachers are a bitch), but ignorance of antimatter doesn't necessarily make a high school science teacher an idiot. The fact is that antimatter is an area of science that has almost no relation to any kind of useful science that is being conducted anywhere in the world today or in any job that you are ever likely to find yourself in. Knowledge of it is nothing more than trivia and sci-fi geekdom for the vast majority of people. A high-school teacher could be quite brilliant at teaching, say, chemistry, and not know what antimatter is.

It is the bane of our age that people think of scientific comprehension in terms of "do you know the latest news and coolest ideas" rather than a comprehension of the elegant interconnection of basic concepts which is the real backbone of science. There are plenty of Google-taught self-declared science experts who know all about antimatter, string theory ... and are creationists.

I would think that it would be fundamental since it was discovered decades ago, at least when you're learning about sub-atomic particles, since each and every particle has an anti-particle, or least more recently. My physics demystified book explains it at least and it's not graduate level material, it's a basic physics book.

[Frank Hipper]

When I was in 6th Grade (1979), we had a question in a book that asked us if we thought it was possible for people to be living on the moon by the year 2000; I answered yes.

Our teacher proceeded to ridicule me with great volume and gusto how it's impossible to live on the moon because of the lack of air....fearing punishment I didn't mention the Apollo program.

Fucking stupid bitch.

[Ariphaos]

When I was in 6th Grade (1979), we had a question in a book that asked us if we thought it was possible for people to be living on the moon by the year 2000; I answered yes.

Our teacher proceeded to ridicule me with great volume and gusto how it's impossible to live on the moon because of the lack of air....fearing punishment I didn't mention the Apollo program.

Fucking stupid bitch. :evil:

The moon is, in fact, covered in it, it's just trapped as Titanium Dioxide.

That said, I don't think the degree requirement applies to elementary school teachers. I thought they needed 'child studies' or something of the sort instead.

[Lisa]

When I was in elementry school we had 1 teacher that would teach you all the subjects except languages and music. those subjects had their own dedicated teachers who taught the whole school.

[defanatic]

There are definitely some idiot science teachers out there

Kent Hovind claimed to be a high school science teacher for 15 years. 'nuff said.

[Darth Wong]

The fact is that antimatter is an area of science that has almost no relation to any kind of useful science that is being conducted anywhere in the world today or in any job that you are ever likely to find yourself in. Knowledge of it is nothing more than trivia and sci-fi geekdom for the vast majority of people.

True for the vast majority, although there's a minority of people who design or operate PET scanners.

Dude, you are aware that we're talking about a SIXTH GRADE teacher, right? I'm the first one to attack incompetent science education, but you can't declare a sixth grade science teacher incompetent if he does not know what antimatter is. And nobody is out there designing anything with a 6th grade education.

But more to the point, people are still attempting to determine competence based on knowledge of what is, at this point in the game, mere show-off trivia. The real nuts and bolts of science, and the most important thing to teach at the early grades, is the whole underlying concept of how it works and some very basic fundamentals.

[Flagg]

My 4th grade science teacher was a YEC Southern Baptist who "taught" evolution in a way that suggested if you believed a word of what the textbook said, you were an idiot. She spent the first day on the subject explaining that there were 2 "theories" on the issue that scientists were in heated debate over. This was a public elementary school, BTW.

[Darth Wong]

My 4th grade science teacher was a YEC Southern Baptist who "taught" evolution in a way that suggested if you believed a word of what the textbook said, you were an idiot. She spent the first day on the subject explaining that there were 2 "theories" on the issue that scientists were in heated debate over. This was a public elementary school, BTW.

Now that's a real problem in terms of science education. I couldn't care less if my kid's sixth-grade science teacher knows what antimatter is, as long as he isn't spreading preposterous lies like that.

[Flagg]

My 4th grade science teacher was a YEC Southern Baptist who "taught" evolution in a way that suggested if you believed a word of what the textbook said, you were an idiot. She spent the first day on the subject explaining that there were 2 "theories" on the issue that scientists were in heated debate over. This was a public elementary school, BTW.

Now that's a real problem in terms of science education. I couldn't care less if my kid's sixth-grade science teacher knows what antimatter is, as long as he isn't spreading preposterous lies like that.

Yeah, she was this old vicious bitch. But we had sort of a split class situation at my school, so I had 2 4th grade teachers. one taught reading, spelling, and English, the other was science, math, and social studies. She had been teaching for like 40 years, so she pretty much got away with it. IIRC she was pretty much forced into retirement the year after I had her class.

I was always at odds with her because I didn't buy into the whole "god waved his dick and people formed out of dust" thing, even at 10. Evolution just sounded right to me. But most of the other kids drank the proverbial kool aid, and she constantly fucked with me. What finally got the schools attention was when she started calling the black kids in the class her "little Sambo's". But even then she wasn't fired.

[Darth Ruinus]

My 4th grade science teacher was a YEC Southern Baptist who "taught" evolution in a way that suggested if you believed a word of what the textbook said, you were an idiot. She spent the first day on the subject explaining that there were 2 "theories" on the issue that scientists were in heated debate over. This was a public elementary school, BTW.

You know, if I was in a class with a teacher who was saying Creationism is a science, I would simply say "Sweet!" and knock off that class for the rest of the year. Why? Becase I would ace that class by writing "God did it!" on all my homework assignments and tests.

[brianeyci]

When students asked my twelfth grade math teacher what all that math was good for, he said if he knew he'd be making a lot more money.

He told us a story once of a professor who walked into class every single day and started writing, and said nothing and just left (if a professor taught like that today in this "customer service" universities are corporations climate he'd be sacked.) Nobody understood anything he wrote until the very end of the semester when everything finally started clicking. The entire class was based on one huge problem set, and there was one genius who came to class and didn't pay attention at all. Time came for the set to be due, and the genius hadn't done anything. The genius begged and moaned for an extra day, and it seemed pathetic to the teacher and all his friends. Then the genius comes back and gets nearly perfect on a problem set that took the combined efforts of himself and all his friends for an entire semester.

It was then that I realized teachers are not necessarily the smartest people on the planet, but they sure are the best at communicating their knowledge (or they better be.)

As soon as I heard that story, all sins were forgiven. Teachers have gone through the motions, they have gone through the education, and if they don't know what antimatter is I don't give a shit. That year I took a math textbook home to study over the summer... best teacher ever. It would take a grevious sin indeed for me to look down on a primary school science teacher. I'd even accept a religious teacher, as long as he said that religion was separate and based on faith and science was based on fact and he didn't let religion get in class.

Just because he doesn't look up antimatter on google doesn't make him a horrible science teacher. In fact I think the obvious is true -- he isn't afraid to say "what?" instead of bullshit. I've met my fair share of teachers who obviously don't know the answer to a question, and fake it to make it up. At that level the fundamentals are important, not application. My math teacher had no idea what good Calculus was but he was damn good at teaching it.

[Flagg]

My 4th grade science teacher was a YEC Southern Baptist who "taught" evolution in a way that suggested if you believed a word of what the textbook said, you were an idiot. She spent the first day on the subject explaining that there were 2 "theories" on the issue that scientists were in heated debate over. This was a public elementary school, BTW.

You know, if I was in a class with a teacher who was saying Creationism is a science, I would simply say "Sweet!" and knock off that class for the rest of the year. Why? Becase I would ace that class by writing "God did it!" on all my homework assignments and tests.

She wasn't totally stupid, you know. She took the tests right from the textbook and graded by that. She made sure she got her religious message across, but she did it in a way that made sure she kept her job.

[Winston Blake]

Dude, you are aware that we're talking about a SIXTH GRADE teacher, right? I'm the first one to attack incompetent science education, but you can't declare a sixth grade science teacher incompetent if he does not know what antimatter is. And nobody is out there designing anything with a 6th grade education.

I agree with all that. I was just pointing out an area where antimatter annihilation actually is a practical, useful engineering issue, in response to the bit I quoted.

[Darth Ruinus]

You know, if I was in a class with a teacher who was saying Creationism is a science, I would simply say "Sweet!" and knock off that class for the rest of the year. Why? Becase I would ace that class by writing "God did it!" on all my homework assignments and tests.

She wasn't totally stupid, you know. She took the tests right from the textbook and graded by that. She made sure she got her religious message across, but she did it in a way that made sure she kept her job.[/quote]

I point to when I said

Creationism is a science

I dont mean to imply that your teacher was stupid, but that, if I ever met a teacher who seriously beleive the Bible was literally true, I would just write down Bible quotes for all the homework and whatevers.

[Shrykull]

And nobody is out there designing anything with a 6th grade education.

What about spud guns, and you can pretty easily make a hydrogen oxygen bombs by electroysizing(sp?) water.

[Howedar]

"Applying instructions you saw on the internet" is not "designing" in any real sense of the word.

[Cyborg Stan]

I remember my AP Physics C teacher in high school. He once gave a quiz, which went something like this :

You have three wheel of different diameter, connected by chains. You know the rotational speed of one of the wheels. Now, figure out the moment of inertia for all three.

I can produce a diagram if you like.

[Cyborg Stan]

More to above :

Come to think of it, he probably also included the diameters of the wheels. I got one of the three questions right by guessing the mass and distrubtion of the wheels properly, but the quiz was like asking the mass of cars on train by simply giving the speed.

Another question, this time from a test - There's a box on the ground, heavier than you and with a higher static friction coeffiencent than you. Can you move the box with your body? My answer - provided that it's not too heavy or doesn't have that much of a coefficent, then yes - all you needed was a running start to get the box moving, and under the right conditions you can push it from there, if the box's kinetic coefficent of friction is just right. His answer - no, and he wouldn't bother reading anybody's excuses otherwise.

This wouldn't have bothered me so much, except later he recounted the story of another test question he gave - which moves faster for a rotating planet in orbit (assume both rotations are clockwise for this one), the nightside of the planet, or the dayside? He ended up give partial credit to a dumbass that said 'dayside' because he thought the explanation of the Sun heating up that the dayside making that side expand.

Hmm... final one for today. He gave out a group lab, that involved an incline, a rolling object, and speedometer/computer set-up. Problem was, he was also grading on how 'accurate' we did it, which meant how closely an abused old wheel-thing could conform to highly idealized calculations. Which quickly meant that the rest of the group decided to simply doctor the numbers instead. Curiously enough, had either he or the rest of my group bothered to check, the combined KE+RE of the object would've been way more than it should have from the GPE it started it.