Using their beliefs against them

[Dark Flame]

I was talking to my mother about her smoking habit today. It occurred to me that I might be able to use her belief in the Christian God as a reason to quit smoking. (I was thinking of the "Your body is a temple" verse.)

Seeing as how I don't believe in God in any way, would that be hypocritical? Would it be wrong? My intentions are good, but are the methods shady?

[ArmorPierce]

This actually reminds me of a moral court episode where the woman who was a christian refused to use any form of birth control so they were on their xth kid so she wanted her husband (or bf don't remember) to get a vasectomy. The guy who thought that she should be on some form of birth control refused and said that's a form of birth control and if she was against it she should be against vasectomy. Judge elder ruled in her favor stating that it is not his religion to judge or whatever.

I think that Judge elder is an idiot. It is not hypocritical, it is pointing out her contradicting her own belief system. Of course that will probably be her defense "Who are you to tell me if I'm being a good or bad Christian, you are an Atheist!"

[Surlethe]

No. It is neither wrong nor hypocritical to point out contradictions in the belief systems of others; doing so does not require you to adopt their beliefs, but only to understand them.

[Superman]

Does she want to quit?

[Dark Flame]

She says she does, but she never seems to get around to it. And quitting would be good for her, so it's not like I'm trying to do something that she doesn't want to do or that would be bad for her. I'm just trying to add another reason to quit.

[AK-047]

I don't see any hypocrisy in the act. Telling someone that what they do does not agree with what they supposedly believe would give them the impression that you are concerned and considerate. Provided that they aren't totally ignorant, such attempts should be met well.

[Middleclass]

I'll go ahead and cast my vote with the others. This is not hypocritical. Her beliefs require her to quit smoking, simple as that.

On a side note, be careful. I am currently struggling with nicotine withdrawal, and a smoker will rationalize literally anything to keep on smoking.

[Feil]

What's stopping her from using patches and chewing gum and such to deal with nicotine dependency without the suicidal smoke inhalation?

[Superman]

There are also medications now. Maybe she should see her doctor.

[Dark Flame]

What's stopping her from using patches and chewing gum and such to deal with nicotine dependency without the suicidal smoke inhalation?

I honestly don't know. We have a box of the patches sitting in a closet somewhere, but she just never seems to getting around to it. That's why I'm looking for any reason to help push her towards quitting.

[Superman]

What's stopping her from using patches and chewing gum and such to deal with nicotine dependency without the suicidal smoke inhalation?

I honestly don't know. We have a box of the patches sitting in a closet somewhere, but she just never seems to getting around to it. That's why I'm looking for any reason to help push her towards quitting.

Having worked with people addicted to substances for a while, I can tell you that she is going to have to want to stop. That usually means having negative consequences that are a direct result of her smoking.

Also, just a general piece of information here: it is not uncommon for smokers to have coexisting addictions, or something like a mood disorder. These coexisting disorders, if untreated, will often cause a relapse. So, if your mom drinks, for example, fighting off the urge to smoke is going to be extremely difficult after a couple of glasses of wine.

[Darth Servo]

Exactly what brand of Christianity is she? That can make a world of difference since certain sects teach just "believe and be saved, actions don't matter"

[Dark Flame]

I'm not sure. We used to go to an Evangelical and Reformed church, but we left there because of internal politics and constantly changing pastors. Then we went to a Methodist church, but it's been a long time since we've been there, too. I would say that she is still more of the E&R type than anything else.

[Coalition]

Calculate how much money she spends on cigarettes per day, week, month, year, and show what it could be used for at a local charity.

Tell her that she will be helping all those people if she quits and gives the money to charity/

[Turin]

I'll chime in here as an ex-smoker.

What's stopping her from using patches and chewing gum and such to deal with nicotine dependency without the suicidal smoke inhalation?

The patch/gum aren't 1:1 replacements of nicotine, so you do experience significant withdrawal symptoms using them. On top of that, the act of smoking becomes as much of an addictive behavior as the nicotine itself.

I honestly don't know. We have a box of the patches sitting in a closet somewhere, but she just never seems to getting around to it. That's why I'm looking for any reason to help push her towards quitting.

I don't think using the religion angle is hypocritical at all, just as others have said. The problem is that an addict (of any kind, I imagine) already has all the information they need to make a sound decision to quit, unless they've been living in a cave. She's exposed constantly to messages to quit, either on TV, from you, her doctor, etc. But the nature of addiction is such that it's an irrational behavior.

I smoked for years knowing how bad it was for me. Starting smoking was just plain stupidity (youthful stupidity on my part), but once you're hooked, it doesn't really matter how much information you have, because you'll always come up with a rationale. For me, it was always "well, I'm really stressed out now because of work/school/whatever, so I'll try to quit next month."

DarkFlame, you want to toe the fine line between keeping up the pressure on your mother and just pissing her off (and turning her away from the idea of quitting). You'll have to be the judge of whether using her religion against her will be an effective tool in that fight.

[Kihmbar]

Pointing out one's lifestyle is inconsistant with their beliefs is beneficial and (if done in a kind manner) will show you have a genuine concern for your mother. In addition to the "your body is a temple" verse, you may want to consider verses which speak about "causing others to stumble." I am sure she knows it is a bad habit and doesn't want to lead or encourage someone else to smoke.

[Lisa]

I used to smoke, I tried quitting many times some what successfully, off smoking for about 2 or 3 years at a time. each time was a battle, until the last time when I just did it. Until the last time I quit I didn't feel like quitting and had difficulty. Motivation is everything.

My mom on the other hand couldn't quit until she tried hypnotherapy

[Superman]

I don't know how many times I've heard people in recovery say that Nicotine's addictive power is nothing short of Heroin. Most people find it easier to stop using crack, coke, alcohol... It's amazing.

I'd still suggest going to your doctor for medication therapy. Some of the newer medications seem to be pretty effective.

[Tahlan]

I was talking to my mother about her smoking habit today. It occurred to me that I might be able to use her belief in the Christian God as a reason to quit smoking. (I was thinking of the "Your body is a temple" verse.)

For reference, the verse is:

1 Corinthians 6:19 (New International Version)
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

Seeing as how I don't believe in God in any way, would that be hypocritical? Would it be wrong? My intentions are good, but are the methods shady?

Pointing out a contradiction in one's belief system, even though you do not ascribe to that belief system yourself is not hypocritical. For example, if it were hypocritical, the majority of those who debate on this board would be first-class hypocrites.

[Darth Wong]

Does "Dark Flame" know what the word "hypocritical" means? Rather than try to prove that it's not hypocritical to criticize someone for violating their own beliefs even if you don't share them, I'd prefer to ask someone why it could possibly be considered hypocritical in the first place.

Really, if one subscribes to his notion of what "hypocritical" means, then the whole concept of Socratic interrogation is intrinsically hypocritical unless you always agree with the person you are interrogating.

[Dark Flame]

Does "Dark Flame" know what the word "hypocritical" means? Rather than try to prove that it's not hypocritical to criticize someone for violating their own beliefs even if you don't share them, I'd prefer to ask someone why it could possibly be considered hypocritical in the first place.

Really, if one subscribes to his notion of what "hypocritical" means, then the whole concept of Socratic interrogation is intrinsically hypocritical unless you always agree with the person you are interrogating.

Thank you for pointing out valid questions. I was thinking that using an argument that I didn't believe in and advising her to follow the Bible just because it's the Bible even though I wouldn't would be hypocritical. It seemed to me like it could be a "Do as I say, not as I do" situation.

But looking at it another way(as Tahlan pointed out), I'm not hypocritical for pointing out her own hypocrisy and her contradictions with her own beliefs.

[jegs2]

I was talking to my mother about her smoking habit today. It occurred to me that I might be able to use her belief in the Christian God as a reason to quit smoking. (I was thinking of the "Your body is a temple" verse.)

Seeing as how I don't believe in God in any way, would that be hypocritical? Would it be wrong? My intentions are good, but are the methods shady?

Speaking as a Christian, I'd say no. It's perfectly logical to point out scripture to a Christian, especially if he or she is doing something overtly harmful to his or her body. Here is the passage in context:

1 Corinthians 6

12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

[Dark Flame]

Thank you for that, jegs2. It looks like I could use Corinthians 6:12 along with 6:18 to further my point.

[Dark Flame]

Ghetto Edit: I meant Corinthians 6:19, not 6:18.

[Lisa]

It's been a while since I picked up a bible, but isn't there a section where christ admonishes his dicples for harrassing a woman who was eating unlcean food?