Most powerful god from religion...

[ray245]

I was going to say gods who is not fictional...but...anyway, after hearing people who like to compare which god is more powerful which god(gods) /goddess are the strongest in terms of what they are capable of.

I think we can include greek or other mythology, since they are religion in the past.

[Simmon]

Well, assuming all are/were real, the monotheistic god is most powerful. That one was the only one claimed to be omnipotent. The Greek gods and all those others always had a narrow scope of ability.

[General Zod]

Well, assuming all are/were real, the monotheistic god is most powerful. That one was the only one claimed to be omnipotent. The Greek gods and all those others always had a narrow scope of ability.

Which monotheistic God? If you're talking about the Christian God, keep in mind he was defeated by iron chariots. None of his demonstrated feats (as opposed to ignorant fundie claims) in the Bible are especially more impressive than anything someone from the Roman or Norse pantheon could accomplish.

[Plekhanov]

Well, assuming all are/were real, the monotheistic god is most powerful. That one was the only one claimed to be omnipotent. The Greek gods and all those others always had a narrow scope of ability.

Which monotheistic God? If you're talking about the Christian God, keep in mind he was defeated by iron chariots. None of his demonstrated feats (as opposed to ignorant fundie claims) in the Bible are especially more impressive than anything someone from the Roman or Norse pantheon could accomplish.

What exactly do you mean by "demonstrated feats (as opposed to ignorant fundie claims) in the Bible"?

[Alerik the Fortunate]

I think he means feats specified within the narrative of the bible in a suspension of disbelief framework, rather than theological omni-fill-in-the-blank deity wanking, though that probably is still a poor distinction.

[Knife]

Well, assuming all are/were real, the monotheistic god is most powerful. That one was the only one claimed to be omnipotent. The Greek gods and all those others always had a narrow scope of ability.

If you're refering to the God of Abraham, he doesn't exactly rule by himself does he? His kid pretty much took the top spot without a fight, and the nebulous Holy Spirit is mixed in there too. It's odd that the monotheistic god really isn't. Not to mention the demi-god Lucifer he created to run the other side of the opperation. I'd submit that the Christian god is pretty weak all by himself, and really needs his pyrimid of secondary critters in a fucked up Saprano's style Holy Family.

[General Zod]

What exactly do you mean by "demonstrated feats (as opposed to ignorant fundie claims) in the Bible"?

As in feats the deity is actually shown to perform. Any idiot can claim to be omnipotent but if the army they're backing is stopped by something as retardedly simple as iron chariots, that really tends to throw their claim into doubt. Likewise, asking where someone is when you're supposed to be omniscient throws that into doubt as well without a lot of rationalizing. It should be somewhat self explanatory.

[Alerik the Fortunate]

Part of the problem with deities, is that like superheroes and sci-fi battlefleets, they tend to be invented by people who have no idea how hard various tasks actually are relative to each other, so you have massive discrepancies between powers and weaknesses within a single character or group, because the particulars are chosen for dramatic storytelling purposes rather than logical consistency.

[General Zod]

Part of the problem with deities, is that like superheroes and sci-fi battlefleets, they tend to be invented by people who have no idea how hard various tasks actually are relative to each other, so you have massive discrepancies between powers and weaknesses within a single character or group, because the particulars are chosen for dramatic storytelling purposes rather than logical consistency.

This is one case where "writer's intent" doesn't really count for dick. Can their feats be quantified? Is there a solid demonstration of what each deity is capable of in some myth? If so, then it's not exactly rocket science to figure out which one is capable of doing more impressive actions.

[Plekhanov]

What exactly do you mean by "demonstrated feats (as opposed to ignorant fundie claims) in the Bible"?

As in feats the deity is actually shown to perform. Any idiot can claim to be omnipotent but if the army they're backing is stopped by something as retardedly simple as iron chariots, that really tends to throw their claim into doubt. Likewise, asking where someone is when you're supposed to be omniscient throws that into doubt as well without a lot of rationalizing. It should be somewhat self explanatory.

But what feats has any deity ever been 'actually shown to perform'?

It seems pretty clear that the OP is asking which deity is described as being the most powerful not which god is most powerful in reality, a question which given the lack of any good evidence that any deity exists would obviously be rather difficult to answer.

[General Zod]

But what feats has any deity ever been 'actually shown to perform'?

It seems pretty clear that the OP is asking which deity is described as being the most powerful not which god is most powerful in reality, a question which given the lack of any good evidence that any deity exists would obviously be rather difficult to answer.

Then the question becomes pointlessly retarded. How else do you expect to determine which one is more powerful without examples of things they've accomplished by displaying their power within their respective mythologies?

[Simmon]

Which monotheistic God? If you're talking about the Christian God, keep in mind he was defeated by iron chariots. None of his demonstrated feats (as opposed to ignorant fundie claims) in the Bible are especially more impressive than anything someone from the Roman or Norse pantheon could accomplish.

You're right, I was refering to Christian "God-wanking", as Alerik termed it.

I was assuming all gods ever claimed were in on this.

[Darth Wong]

But what feats has any deity ever been 'actually shown to perform'?

Let's put it this way: if you made a movie about the Bible, you would probably have the first few chapters of Genesis spoken by the narrator, and the actual onscreen story would begin with the Flood at the very earliest. Everything before that is so vague that you could not really show it onscreen without basically making it all up, because you have no idea what it should look like. Even the Flood would require enormous amounts of pure invention on the part of any filmmaker. The storytelling in the Bible doesn't really get specific enough to visualize it until Noah and his daughters get off the Ark.

Another point to remember here is that the Books of Genesis and Exodus were supposedly written by Moses, who obviously could not witness any of these events. So the real narrative doesn't really begin until we get to Moses' own life story. In filmmaking terms, everything up to Moses' adolescent years should probably be told as a narrative voice-over.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.

[Plekhanov]

Then the question becomes pointlessly retarded. How else do you expect to determine which one is more powerful without examples of things they've accomplished by displaying their power within their respective mythologies?

Obviously that's the best way to approach the op but what I don't get is that you seem to be saying that when assessing Yahweh we should disregard biblical claims that he created the universe in 6 days but count claims about the successes & failures of armies he was apparently 'with' when both claims are equally unsupported by any substantiating evidence, none of them are 'demonstrated' beyond the bible saying he did them.

[Darth Wong]

Then the question becomes pointlessly retarded. How else do you expect to determine which one is more powerful without examples of things they've accomplished by displaying their power within their respective mythologies?

Obviously that's the best way to approach the op but what I don't get is that you seem to be saying that when assessing Yahweh we should disregard biblical claims that he created the universe in 6 days but count claims about the successes & failures of armies he was apparently 'with' when both claims are equally unsupported by any substantiating evidence, none of them are 'demonstrated' beyond the bible saying he did them.

Did you totally ignore my post? The first few books of the Bible were supposedly written by one of the Bible's own characters: Moses. It is not a standard fiction "omniscient observer" perspective; it is the perspective of Moses.

[General Zod]

Obviously that's the best way to approach the op but what I don't get is that you seem to be saying that when assessing Yahweh we should disregard biblical claims that he created the universe in 6 days but count claims about the successes & failures of armies he was apparently 'with' when both claims are equally unsupported by any substantiating evidence, none of them are 'demonstrated' beyond the bible saying he did them.

I'm not exactly sure how the fuck you're getting "biblical claims" from "fundie claims". By "fundie claims" I mean claims of what God is capable of when there's no such evidence within the books and legitimate mythologies themselves supporting it. People like bleating that he's omnipotent all the time when there's clear evidence contradicting this fact. It's should be pretty fucking obvious I'm talking about analyzing it from an SoD perspective which makes substantiating evidence not necessary.

[Plekhanov]

Did you totally ignore my post? The first few books of the Bible were supposedly written by one of the Bible's own characters: Moses. It is not a standard fiction "omniscient observer" perspective; it is the perspective of Moses.

I was getting round to your post, I’m familiar with the bible and it’s inconsistencies and the problems with the notion that Moses wrote the books attributed to him, but my point is that from my understanding of the task set in the op it makes no sense to only count the achievements of the armies of Israel.

Within the terms of the OP I think we can question for example the various assertions that Yahweh knows all given the incidents such his discussion with Abraham when it’s clear that he doesn’t know what’s going on in Sodom & Gomorrah as his ‘omniscience’ isn’t as Zod would put it ‘demonstrated’. His creation of the universe on the other hand is every bit as ‘demonstrated’ as the supposed miraculous destruction of the walls of Jericho for example in that the bible says he did it, rather than simply saying he has the capability as to the best of my recollection it does with omniscience.

[Ford Prefect]

The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.

Just to back this up, the most impressive feat which is present in the Bible is probably from Revelations, when a third of the stars get 'pulled down' or some such.

[Plekhanov]

The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.

Just to back this up, the most impressive feat which is present in the Bible is probably from Revelations, when a third of the stars get 'pulled down' or some such.

For the purposes of discussions such as this do claimed powers which have never been demonstrated count?

[General Zod]

The Hindu pantheon has the power to destroy the entire universe, which is far in excess of anything God has done or claimed he will do, despite his delusions of omnipotence.

Just to back this up, the most impressive feat which is present in the Bible is probably from Revelations, when a third of the stars get 'pulled down' or some such.

For the purposes of discussions such as this do claimed powers which have never been demonstrated count?

Such as?

[Plekhanov]

Everything described in revelations for a start which is after all a prophecy of what Yahweh claims he can and will do not what he has done, also I expect the hindu pantheons ability to 'destroy the entire universe' unless of course they've apparently already done so and then created another one or something.

[General Zod]

Everything described in revelations for a start which is after all a prophecy of what Yahweh claims he can and will do not what he has done, also I expect the hindu pantheons ability to 'destroy the entire universe' unless of course they've apparently already done so and then created another one or something.

Given his actual demonstrated feats it's a bit hard to actually take those types of claims at face value. If God actually were capable of destroying it on his own, then why bother with all of the angels doing the work for him over such a protracted period of time?

[Plekhanov]

Everything described in revelations for a start which is after all a prophecy of what Yahweh claims he can and will do not what he has done, also I expect the hindu pantheons ability to 'destroy the entire universe' unless of course they've apparently already done so and then created another one or something.

Given his actual demonstrated feats it's a bit hard to actually take those types of claims at face value. If God actually were capable of destroying it on his own, then why bother with all of the angels doing the work for him over such a protracted period of time?

Because he's a completely nut job with a severe multiple personality disorder who right through the bible acts in massively inconsistent and completely bizarre ways.

[Darth Wong]

I was getting round to your post, I’m familiar with the bible and it’s inconsistencies and the problems with the notion that Moses wrote the books attributed to him, but my point is that from my understanding of the task set in the op it makes no sense to only count the achievements of the armies of Israel.

Sure it does, since those are the only events which the people who wrote the book could have actually witnessed, even if you take the preposterous step of suspending disbelief and assuming that their accounts were completely factual and honest.

Genesis is mere back-story. That's why it's so utterly inconsistent with God's relatively limited power in subsequent books.

Within the terms of the OP I think we can question for example the various assertions that Yahweh knows all given the incidents such his discussion with Abraham when it’s clear that he doesn’t know what’s going on in Sodom & Gomorrah as his ‘omniscience’ isn’t as Zod would put it ‘demonstrated’. His creation of the universe on the other hand is every bit as ‘demonstrated’ as the supposed miraculous destruction of the walls of Jericho for example in that the bible says he did it, rather than simply saying he has the capability as to the best of my recollection it does with omniscience.

How is it "demonstrated"? We're not talking about film, where you can look at it and decide which parts are character narrative and which parts actually happen in the context of the story. But since we know that the early story is supposedly written by Moses, we know that the Book of Genesis is merely a backstory that was told to him, and which he didn't witness. As I said, if the Bible were a movie, Genesis would be told with a first-person narrative voice-over, and it would not be shown onscreen.