"Christ will protect us"

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2007-09-04 01:11pm

Now this is something that just irked the shit out of me. It's taken out of context from a story about Hurricane Felix. Read the bolded part:

The only path to safety for many of Miskito Indians was up rivers and across lakes that are too shallow for regular boats, but many lacked gasoline for long canoe journeys out. And damaging winds and floods could wipe out their crops of beans, rice, cassava and plantains.

In Honduras seaside resort of La Ceiba, residents spent the night reinforcing the flimsy walls of their homes with plywood and sandbags.

"It's going to be strong, but we have faith that Christ will protect us," said Sandra Hernandez, a 37-year-old housewife who watched satellite images of the storm on television.

Now first of all, it strikes me as the stupidest belief imaginable because what exactly IS the track record of Christ saving Christian believers? Did he help those about to be torn about by the lions? Hell, did he even help his own APOSTLES.

Where do people get these idiot ideas? In all fairness to the scripture, if I do remember correctly, the proper attitude to take would NOT be "he will protect us". but "Whatever his will is, thy will be done". In other words, you do all you can, but whatever does happen is God's will and you accept that as divine in and of itself even if it includes your horrible death in the process.

Any Christians out there have a comment on this? I'm quite sure that I'm right on the take of it...but obviously there is no shortage of others out there believing their prayers are guaranteed to "save" them.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 01:16pm

Ah, the poster religion of the lowest common denominator.

Mlenk · Post by **Mlenk** » 2007-09-04 01:31pm

Speaking from my experiences with my highly religious parents, prayer and the belief that God will protect and come through for them is the way that people like to feel in control in an otherwise uncontrollable and unpredictable situation and world. Even when things don't turn out as expected, many religious people don't blame God but instead delude themselves into thinking that even though they might not like the way things worked out, God ultimately knows what's best for them and that God caused this to happen to them for a good reason, like to show them the light, lead them back to a better path, etc.

Starglider · Post by **Starglider** » 2007-09-04 02:16pm

Justforfun000 wrote:Any Christians out there have a comment on this? I'm quite sure that I'm right on the take of it...but obviously there is no shortage of others out there believing their prayers are guaranteed to "save" them.

And however many people die, the religious nuts will say 'oh well if it hadn't been for god's mercy even more people would've died!'.

Even when things don't turn out as expected, many religious people don't blame God but instead delude themselves into thinking that even though they might not like the way things worked out, God ultimately knows what's best for them and that God caused this to happen to them for a good reason, like to show them the light, lead them back to a better path, etc.

Yeah, the delusion 'god is ultimately benevolent' in a callous universe creates a religion that is essentially a huge joint case of Stockholm Syndrome ('god is benevolent but also punnishes people who do things he doesn't like with eternal unbearable torture' is another schitzo bit that compounds the problem). At least with old-style pagan religions, there was a straightforward explanation for why bad stuff hapened; the god in question either didn't care or actively decided to punnish some mortals.

Zixinus · Post by **Zixinus** » 2007-09-04 02:43pm

"It's going to be strong, but we have faith that Christ will protect us," said Sandra Hernandez, a 37-year-old housewife who watched satellite images of the storm on television.

Actually, If I were God, I'd let the women get killed and go to purgatory/heaven/hell/whatever she prefers. There is not way that somebody that stupid can survive without help.

But really, this is just the delusional getting even more delusional.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2007-09-04 02:50pm

I wonder how many religious people mean this type of statement seriously and how many just say it as a standard phrase without really meaning it.
Similar to how an atheist might say "thank god" but obviously not really mean it that way.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-09-04 02:52pm

I believe Dr. Dino said the same thing about his income tax evasion problems.

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2007-09-04 03:26pm

It would seem her education never touched upon the Lisbon earthquake.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2007-09-04 03:27pm

You people do realize that nothing in the article indicates she's just standing around praying, don't you? People making off the cuff comments in a time of extreme stress is not an indicator of crippling neurosis unless it impedes their ability to engage in measures which actively enhance their own survival, and the failure to recognize that in this thread is utterly pathetic. Saying "God will protect us!" is not a sign of idiocy in this case, but just a demonstration of a person under stress making an offhand comment to reassure themselves because they're about to get hit by a Cat 5, even as they take concrete measures to the best of their ability to strengthen their dwelling, since they don't have the ability to evacuate. How is that stupid? Oh, that's right, it isn't, and you're all just being utterly retarded with how easy you are to pounce. Comments like this are only an indication of crippling neurosis when such behaviour is performed in lieu of activities which heighten one's chances of survival, okay? Someone crying "God will save us!" while stacking sandbags is just likely to make the spirits of any believers nearby a bit brighter and maybe make them work faster, which is hardly a bad thing, while at the worst the energy required to shout four words isn't even better used to stack a single sandbag. Atheists are probably just as glued to their television sets in this case, assuming they don't have the materials to engage in anything more productive, or evacuate. She might be watching young children while her husband is sandbagging the house, even.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 03:35pm

salm wrote:I wonder how many religious people mean this type of statement seriously and how many just say it as a standard phrase without really meaning it.
Similar to how an atheist might say "thank god" but obviously not really mean it that way.

I think quite a few of them do. I was raised in a church of evangelical knuckle draggers, and I really do think that they believe it. Repeating jargon like that is much easier than thinking for oneself.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 04:04pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:You people do realize that nothing in the article indicates she's just standing around praying, don't you? People making off the cuff comments in a time of extreme stress is not an indicator of crippling neurosis unless it impedes their ability to engage in measures which actively enhance their own survival, and the failure to recognize that in this thread is utterly pathetic. Saying "God will protect us!" is not a sign of idiocy in this case, but just a demonstration of a person under stress making an offhand comment to reassure themselves because they're about to get hit by a Cat 5, even as they take concrete measures to the best of their ability to strengthen their dwelling, since they don't have the ability to evacuate. How is that stupid? Oh, that's right, it isn't, and you're all just being utterly retarded with how easy you are to pounce. Comments like this are only an indication of crippling neurosis when such behaviour is performed in lieu of activities which heighten one's chances of survival, okay? Someone crying "God will save us!" while stacking sandbags is just likely to make the spirits of any believers nearby a bit brighter and maybe make them work faster, which is hardly a bad thing, while at the worst the energy required to shout four words isn't even better used to stack a single sandbag. Atheists are probably just as glued to their television sets in this case, assuming they don't have the materials to engage in anything more productive, or evacuate. She might be watching young children while her husband is sandbagging the house, even.

That might be true. However, there is ample precedent for religious people praying instead of taking productive measures. The best current example is all of the American right-wingers who are utterly convinced that neither global warming or peak oil will ever happen because God won't allow it.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-09-04 04:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:You people do realize that nothing in the article indicates she's just standing around praying, don't you? People making off the cuff comments in a time of extreme stress is not an indicator of crippling neurosis unless it impedes their ability to engage in measures which actively enhance their own survival, and the failure to recognize that in this thread is utterly pathetic. Saying "God will protect us!" is not a sign of idiocy in this case, but just a demonstration of a person under stress making an offhand comment to reassure themselves because they're about to get hit by a Cat 5, even as they take concrete measures to the best of their ability to strengthen their dwelling, since they don't have the ability to evacuate. How is that stupid? Oh, that's right, it isn't, and you're all just being utterly retarded with how easy you are to pounce. Comments like this are only an indication of crippling neurosis when such behaviour is performed in lieu of activities which heighten one's chances of survival, okay? Someone crying "God will save us!" while stacking sandbags is just likely to make the spirits of any believers nearby a bit brighter and maybe make them work faster, which is hardly a bad thing, while at the worst the energy required to shout four words isn't even better used to stack a single sandbag. Atheists are probably just as glued to their television sets in this case, assuming they don't have the materials to engage in anything more productive, or evacuate. She might be watching young children while her husband is sandbagging the house, even.
That might be true. However, there is ample precedent for religious people praying instead of taking productive measures. The best current example is all of the American right-wingers who are utterly convinced that neither global warming or peak oil will ever happen because God won't allow it.

Oh it's worse than that. They just don't care whether it's true or not because by the time it gets bad, they'll all be raptured up and the filthy mud people will be suffering for eternity and burning in hellfire.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2007-09-04 06:55pm

There was a religious story about this kind of situation I remember being told many times as a kid.

It basically goes that there was a religious person in a house in the path of floodwaters who refused to evacuate. Later as the water rose to his front steps, some emergency workers came in a big SUV and told him to come the hell out and he said nope, God will save me, so they went on.

Later when the waters rose to the level of the first story, he moved to the second story and a bunch of new rescue workers drove up in a boat and told him that the flood waters are rising, its frigen time to leave. Again he said nope, my God will save me and they left.

Then the floodwaters rose and covered the second floor so he moved to the roof. A helicopter arrived and the people pleeded with him to put on the harness and get the hell out, he refused again saying God will save him and they left.

Of course the floodwaters rose and he drowned.

So he gets up to heaven and angrily asks God why didn't he DO anything?
God just rolls his eyes and says that he sent him an SUV, a Boat and a fucking Helicopter.

The relevence of this story?

I think for most religious people, when they say something like "Christ will protect us" they really mean more that 'we'll do our best and then whatever happens, happens' (and if we make it through, its all God's work, not the preparation and so on or human effort) not so much that its people saying that they expect God to wave his hand and they'll be just fine, not needing to do Jack Shit. Just the human precondition to hope for the best.

Though I'm sure there ARE religious fundies who truly believe if they pray hard enough they'll be just fine, so keep going into the teeth of the storm or whatever.

Dominus Atheos · Post by **Dominus Atheos** » 2007-09-04 06:56pm

Christ will protect us

Darwinism in action.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2007-09-04 07:37pm

Dominus Atheos wrote:
Christ will protect us
Darwinism in action.

Actually the way religious memes are constructed... it will go the exact opposite. If her house is spared, God Protected Her. If her house is destroyed, she isnt faithful enough and needs to pray harder. Works especially well for the impoverished who have little actual control over their lives. It gives them a sense of that control. This is kids is why christianity spreads like wildfire in developing cultures.

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2007-09-04 09:30pm

Now, what will be their excuse if they are spared only because the hurricane made an abrupt course change and hit an equally populated area? "They didn't pray enough"?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 09:32pm

chitoryu12 wrote:Now, what will be their excuse if they are spared only because the hurricane made an abrupt course change and hit an equally populated area? "They didn't pray enough"?

They won't even think about it. It's kind of like all those sports imbeciles who thank Jesus when they win a big game. Do they ever stop to ask themselves why Jesus hates the other team? Of course not. They aren't big on thinking.

Block · Post by **Block** » 2007-09-04 09:38pm

So explain this to me then, and this has been something that's been bothering me a great deal since I've signed up on this board, what difference does it make? How does her faith, or lack thereof effect you? A number of you seem to get so high and mighty about, "Oh, you believe in God, you must be an idiot." Is that to make yourselves feel better? To prove to the other atheists on the board that you hate the idea of people believing in something as much as they do? Now it's one thing to be upset when it actively harms someone, and I'm not saying I particularly believe in an organized religion, but to mock someone for their faith, because it gives them emotional strength seems childish.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 09:42pm

Block wrote:So explain this to me then, and this has been something that's been bothering me a great deal since I've signed up on this board, what difference does it make?

What difference does anything make? Why do you bother saying anything when you hear of someone doing something stupid, or saying something stupid?

How does her faith, or lack thereof effect you?

Directly? Not at all. However, the prevalence of religious faith in society in general has many deleterious effects.

A number of you seem to get so high and mighty about, "Oh, you believe in God, you must be an idiot."

That depends on what kind of God the person believes in. He might only be irrational if he believes in the Vague God. Mind you, if he believes in the Biblical fundamentalist god, he's clearly an idiot.

Is that to make yourselves feel better? To prove to the other atheists on the board that you hate the idea of people believing in something as much as they do?

Gee, it must be for some nefarious psychological reason, right? It couldn't simply be an honest opinion, could it? Oh noooo, there has to be some deep-seated psychological reason for it! Thank you Dr. Freud, for enlightening us all.

Now it's one thing to be upset when it actively harms someone, and I'm not saying I particularly believe in an organized religion, but to mock someone for their faith, because it gives them emotional strength seems childish.

Define "childish". Explain why it is necessarily "childish" to point out that someone is spouting nonsense.

Block · Post by **Block** » 2007-09-04 09:49pm

Because you're not pointing it out in any way that's really being... constructive? Meaningful? You're simply mocking. And generally there really are only two reasons behind that, 1) because it's actually funny, which this isn't unless you like seeing people hurt because they think differently than you do, or 2) because you're trying to make yourself feel better about something, anything, whatever. Otherwise why comment?

Quote:
How does her faith, or lack thereof effect you?

Directly? Not at all. However, the prevalence of religious faith in society in general has many deleterious effects.

This I agree with, however only when said society is run with a sectarian slant, something that pretty much always happens, but it was a good idea when the founders tried to keep it out.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 09:55pm

Block wrote:Otherwise why comment?

We knew you were here and wanted to bug you.

Block · Post by **Block** » 2007-09-04 09:56pm

Superman wrote:
Block wrote:Otherwise why comment?
We knew you were here and wanted to bug you.

That's all I wanted, thank you

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-09-04 09:58pm

Block wrote:
Superman wrote:
Block wrote:Otherwise why comment?
We knew you were here and wanted to bug you.
That's all I wanted, thank you

Sorry, I meant "I."

I can't speak for others...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2007-09-04 09:58pm

Why comment? Did you seriously ask that? Are we guilty of Thought Crimes for saying the wrong thing now?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-09-04 10:00pm

Block wrote:Because you're not pointing it out in any way that's really being... constructive? Meaningful? You're simply mocking.

No, I'm correctly pointing out what's wrong with her thinking. You interpret it as "mocking" because you want to find something wrong with it and can't. The fact that it's not particularly constructive means nothing, unless you're trying to argue that morally neutral actions should be discouraged for some reason.

And generally there really are only two reasons behind that, 1) because it's actually funny, which this isn't unless you like seeing people hurt because they think differently than you do, or 2) because you're trying to make yourself feel better about something, anything, whatever. Otherwise why comment?

Generally, there are only two reasons behind someone who tries to paint hidden psychological motives behind another person's opinions: 1) you like seeing people hurt because they think differently from you, or 2) Because you're trying to make yourself feel better about something, anything, whatever. Otherwise, why comment?

See, I can play this game too. Why don't you just admit that you don't like what I'm saying but you can't find anything logically wrong with it, hence this chickenshit Dr. Freud nonsense of yours?