Nuclear's CO2 cost 'will climb'

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Nuclear's CO2 cost 'will climb'

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Nuclear's CO2 cost 'will climb'
BBC wrote:The case for nuclear power as a low carbon energy source to replace fossil fuels has been challenged in a new report by Australian academics.

It suggests greenhouse emissions from the mining of uranium - on which nuclear power relies - are on the rise.

Availability of high-grade uranium ore is set to decline with time, it says, making the fuel less environmentally friendly and more costly to extract.

The findings appear in the journal Environmental Science & Technology.

A significant proportion of greenhouse emissions from nuclear power stem from the fuel supply stage, which includes uranium mining, milling, enrichment and fuel manufacturing.

Others sources of carbon include construction of the plant - including the manufacturing of steel and concrete materials - and decomissioning.

The authors based their analysis on historical records, contemporary financial and technical reports, and analyses of CO2 emissions.

Experts say it is the first such report to draw together such detailed information on the environmental costs incurred at this point in the nuclear energy chain.

Nuclear impact

The report is likely to come under close scrutiny at a time when governments around the world are considering the nuclear option to meet future energy demands and reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Lead author Gavin Mudd, from Monash University in Australia, told BBC News: "Yes, we can probably find new uranium deposits, but to me that's not the real issue. The real issue is: 'what are the environmental and sustainability costs?'

New uranium deposits are likely to be deeper underground and therefore more difficult to extract than at currently exploited sites, said Dr Mudd.

In addition, he said, the average grade of uranium ore - a measure of its uranium oxide content and a key economic factor in mining - is likely to fall. Getting uranium from lower-quality deposits involves digging up and refining more ore.

Transporting a greater amount of ore will in turn require more diesel-powered vehicles - a principal source of greenhouse emissions in uranium mining.

"The rate at which [the average grade of uranium ore] goes down depends on demand, technology, exploration and other factors. But, especially if there is going to be a nuclear resurgence, it will go down and that will entail a higher CO2 cost," Dr Mudd explained.

Overall, the report suggests that uranium mining could require more energy and water in future, releasing greenhouse gases in greater quantities.

New technology

Thierry Dujardin, deputy director for science and development at the Nuclear Energy Agency (NEA), said the analysis made an important contribution to clarifying the impact of nuclear energy on CO2 emissions.

"It is the beginning of the answer to a question I have raised in many fora, including within the agency," he told BBC News.

But Mr Dujardin said he did not fully agree with the authors' conclusions.

"Even in the worst case scenario for CO2 emissions, the impact of nuclear on greenhouse emissions is still very small compared with fossil fuels," he explained.

The NEA official admitted that lower grades of ore might have to be exploited in future, but he added that emissions from mining were only a small part of those produced in the nuclear supply chain as a whole.

He said he was also confident that entirely new deposits would be found as the industry stepped up its exploration effort.

The nuclear industry is carrying out research into recovering uranium from rocks used in the industrial production of phosphates. Various technologies based on solvent extraction can be used to get the element from phosphate rocks.

And in the longer term, some predict that so-called fast breeder reactor technology would increase by up to 50-fold the amount of energy extracted from uranium.


Thought it was more appropriate to post this here in SLAM than in N&P.
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Post by JointStrikeFighter »

Reprocess uranium. Problem solved.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Pyroprocessing. Problem solved for the next 500K years.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

:roll: All of the carbon outputs are INTRINSIC costs to building anything or any heavy industry. Do these green-nuts suggest that we'll stop building anything or heavy industry altogether in a post-carbon economy. Of course we need to develop low-carbon/carbon-less alternatives to those construction methods, but blaming nuclear for the fact all bulldozers and cranes run on fossil fuels is just bullshit. This is something we were going to have to address anyway; there's no way around it. However, at least nuclear is not a fundamental source of carbon output like mining AND BURNING coal.
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Post by CJvR »

Gasp!!! Heavy mining machinery runs on fossil fuel!?!?!? I had no idea!!!! Quick, shut down all mines at once!
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Illuminatus Primus wrote::roll: All of the carbon outputs are INTRINSIC costs to building anything or any heavy industry. Do these green-nuts suggest that we'll stop building anything or heavy industry altogether in a post-carbon economy. Of course we need to develop low-carbon/carbon-less alternatives to those construction methods, but blaming nuclear for the fact all bulldozers and cranes run on fossil fuels is just bullshit. This is something we were going to have to address anyway; there's no way around it. However, at least nuclear is not a fundamental source of carbon output like mining AND BURNING coal.
The especially stupid thing is an awful lot of mining machinery is in fact electrically powered (and lots of construction equipment could easily be converted to electric too), and relocatable nuclear reactors have been repeatedly proposed as a means of generating that power, but its never happened. Instead we have a situation in which mining companies in remote areas like Papua New Guinea actually have to airlift in diesel fuel to run generators and dump trucks.
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Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Does the mining of coal release CO2 into the atmosphere? I wonder if these anti-nuclear zealots thought of that?
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Post by Hawkwings »

Doesn't mining of anything release CO2 into the atmosphere? Quick, let's shut down all mining! And for that matter, let's shut down anything at all that produces CO2!

Oh, I guess that means all humans need to lay down and die.
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Post by The Vortex Empire »

Hawkwings wrote:Doesn't mining of anything release CO2 into the atmosphere? Quick, let's shut down all mining! And for that matter, let's shut down anything at all that produces CO2!

Oh, I guess that means all humans need to lay down and die.
Clearly the only way to save the environment is to wipe out all life, as all of it is capable of doing damage.
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Post by Ender »

Use nuke plant to free hydrogen. Have earth-movers be built with H2 engines. Problem solved.
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Post by Darth Wong »

In other news, all human labour has been determined to increase CO2 emissions. All humans are urged to move very slowly, and avoid lifting heavy objects.
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Post by SpacedTeddyBear »

Hawkwings wrote:Doesn't mining of anything release CO2 into the atmosphere? Quick, let's shut down all mining! And for that matter, let's shut down anything at all that produces CO2!

Oh, I guess that means all humans need to lay down and die.
No we can't. Decomposing bio-matter also releases CO2 and worst of all, methane. I guess farting is no longer an option... :lol:
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Post by fnord »

Shift over to a thorium-based breeder cycle. Problem solved for at least next 500k years. Being able to burn up existing spent fuel is a nice bonus.

Thorium is also around 3x as abundant as uranium and has had some huge finds recently - eg Lemhi Pass (Thorium Energy Inc claims 600 kt confirmed, 1.8 Mt probable, anywhere between 250-600 kg thorium per t ore, giving thorium metal between 150kt and 1.08 Mt assuming all the thorium is in thorite veins - going with the average across the claim grade of ~ 5% of ore by mass gives between 30 and 90 kt).

Another bennie is that, unlike the 0.6-0.7% of natural uranium that is usable at thermal energies (not even worrying about Pu production), the vast bulk of thorium (Th230 and Th232, I think) is fertile at thermal energies, with those two isotopes being bred to U232 and U233. Going with 50% of Th usable as a pessimistic lower bound, and uranium power density not significantly differing betwen U232/233 and U235, that means roughly 70x (50% / 0.7%) as much energy per unit mass of heavy metal can be extracted on the thermal side. If you take into account the differing thermal efficiencies of both types, that number would change again - but if the thorium plant was anywhere above 1.5% efficient in converting thermal energy to electrical energy, it would produce more electrical power per unit heavy metal than a uranium reactor that perfectly converted thermal to electrical power.

The major benefit in today's political climate, and the reason the liquid-fuel thorium reactor was dropped back in the 1970s, is very very low transuranic isotope production (including Pu239) - I think the only TRU of any real amount was Np237, which (I think) decays to Pu238, so beloved of radiothermal generators. The U232-spiked U233 is very difficult to use in a weapon, and roughly 3x harder to remove the U232 from (1u mass difference) than to enrich U235 from natural uranium (3u mass difference). Also, U232's daughters are quite active gamma emitters.

A liquid flouride thorium reactor would use at most a tonne of Th metal per GW-yr, so (per CIA World Factbook) 2005 global power production of 18.76 PWh, or 2200 GW averaged across the year, could be met by consuming 2200 tonnes of thorium per annum - a low enough rate that Thorium Energy Inc's claims in Lemhi Pass alone could power the world at 2005 levels for thirteen years.
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Post by fnord »

Sorry, dammit, at equal thermal efficiencies, that would be 1.5 t Th per GW-yr.
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Post by Dracofrost »

Yeah, except that mining thorium would still produce CO2 (oh noes!), so it doesn't change anything in regards to this idiocy.
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Post by fnord »

But wouldn't the CO2 emitted per kWh still drop?
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Post by Crayz9000 »

You know, the stupid thing is that for ALL "green" power, there's the same issue.

Windmills? Sure, still have to mine the iron, smelt it into steel, mine the aluminum ores and turn that into metal (a costly proposition anyway, electrically speaking) and then drive these bigass fucking poles and blades out to the middle of nowhere and use big freaking cranes to set them up.

Solar arrays? Same thing, except you're scooping up sand to turn it into photovoltaic panels, or mining metals to turn into mirrors. Same issue with transportation and construction.

Hydro? There's more concrete in the typical hydro dam than a nuclear reactor, that's for sure.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Crayz9000 wrote:Solar arrays? Same thing, except you're scooping up sand to turn it into photovoltaic panels, or mining metals to turn into mirrors. Same issue with transportation and construction.
Worse than that. The etching process for making the panels produces some POTENTLY nasty waste products.
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Post by gizmojumpjet »

I think the real solution is to develop nuclear bulldozers.
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Post by MichaelFerrariF1 »

To use the logic of environmentalists, we shouldn't eat breakfast in the morning because getting up, opening the cabinet, and eating the cereal all burn calories. Obviously the long term gain outweighs the short term loss, though.

This is why I'm a conservationist, not a feel-good-about-yourself environmentalist.
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Post by fnord »

Turns out I was overly pessimistic about Th use - breeding efficiency approaches totality, boosting the relative energy gain to 140x.

Further, it looks like the thermal efficiency is higher - 44% as opposed to an LWR's 33% or so. (From p 196, Nuclear Applications & Technology, February 1970), taking the gain up another one third, to around 180x as much.

According to (obligatory link dressing by Sevior and Flitney), the Rossing uranium mine mines ore at roughly 300 ppm(0.03%), producing enough U to generate 15 GWyr in 2004 with current LWR, requiring at most a single GWyr (the link quotes 0.03 GWyr).

Following Sevior & Flitney's assumption that energy costs of extraction scale inversely with concentration and no significant energy reductions in hard rock processing, that means at current mine-to-cask efficiencies, U is still a net energy producer at ore concentrations above 20 ppm (using their quoted figure takes that limit down to 600 ppb).

As the UIC quoth, at around 2-4 ppm in most rocks (presumably such as granite), U extraction from such rocks is somewhere between energy negative (assuming Rossing energy gain of 15) and still quite feasible (assuming Rossing energy gain of 500, per Sevior & Flitney).

By comparison, Th rocks around at 8-12 ppm, 3-4x as abundant as U. The improved energy gain possible with a fluid-fuelled reactor such as LFTR drops thorium's energy breakeven down to ~ 4 ppb.
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Post by Coyote »

Basically, another very poorly-disguised and thinly-veiled "Newkular is BAAAAAD" bleat.
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Post by MichaelFerrariF1 »

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Post by CJvR »

So we run all uranium mining gear on bio diesel - problem solved...
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Post by Crayz9000 »

MichaelFerrariF1 wrote:Don't forget, every action we undertake increases the entropy of the universe, bringing us closer to the heat death of the universe. Stop what you're doing, and sit down!
Doesn't matter, by simply sitting down you're also accelerating entropy. Quick, burn all the forests you can, we're all going to die of heat death anyway!
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