Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

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DPDarkPrimus
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Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by DPDarkPrimus »

The Rt Rev Patrick O'Donoghue, the Bishop of Lancaster, has claimed that graduates are spreading scepticism and sowing dissent. Instead of following the Church's teaching they are "hedonistic", "selfish" and "egocentric", he said.

In particular, the bishop complained that influential Catholics in politics and the media were undermining the Church.

While not naming names, he suggested that such people had been compromised by their education, which he said had a "dark side, due to original sin".

Prominent Catholics in public life include Mark Thompson, the BBC's director general, and Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister.

Bishop O'Donoghue, who has recently published a report on how to renew Catholicism in Britain, argued that mass education has led to "sickness in the Church and wider society".

"What we have witnessed in Western societies since the end of the Second World War is the development of mass education on a scale unprecedented in human history - resulting in economic growth, scientific and technological advances, and the cultural and social enrichment of billions of people's lives," he said.

"However, every human endeavor has a dark side, due to original sin and concupiscence. In the case of education, we can see its distortion through the widespread dissemination of radical scepticism, positivism, utilitarianism and relativism.

"Taken together, these intellectual trends have resulted in a fragmented society that marginalizes God, with many people mistakenly thinking they can live happy and productive lives without him.

"It shouldn't surprise us that the shadows cast by the distortion of education, and corresponding societal changes, have also touched members of the Church. As Pope Benedict XVI puts it, even in the Church we find hedonism, selfishness and egocentric behavior."

The bishop said that Catholic graduates had rejected the reforms made in the second council of the Vatican, which introduced fundamental changes in issues such as liturgy and doctrine.

"The Second Vatican Council tends to be misinterpreted most by Catholics who have had a university education -- that is, by those most exposed to the intellectual and moral spirit of the age," he said. "These well-educated Catholics have gone on to occupy influential positions in education, the media, politics, and even the Church, where they have been able to spread their so-called loyal dissent, causing confusion and discord in the whole church."

Mr Thompson, who went to Oxford University, has this month been embroiled in a row over broadcasting standards in the wake of the scandal over offensive telephone messages left by Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand. Under his command the BBC broadcast Jerry Springer The Opera, considered blasphemous by many Christians, and was forced to pull a cartoon called Popetown set in a fictional Vatican over concerns it would cause offence.

Mr Blair, also Oxford-educated, became a Catholic last year but has received Mass for years. As Prime Minister he oversaw the introduction of laws on gay rights and abortion which the Catholic church opposed.

The bishop said that influential Catholics had set a bad example and corrupted the faith of those who had not gone to university.

"This failure of leadership has exacerbated the even-greater problem of the mass departure from the Church of the working-class and poor," he said. "For example, the relentless diatribe in the popular media against Christianity has undermined the confidence of the ordinary faithful in the Church."

Although the influx of immigrants from Catholic countries in Eastern Europe has buoyed Mass attendance in recent years, there has been a significant decline in the number of indigenous, working-class Catholics.

Attendance at Mass in 1991 was recorded as 1.3 million, representing a drop of 40 per cent since 1963, but it fell further to 960,000 in 2004. The number of priests in England and Wales has slumped by nearly a quarter in 20 years, from 4,545 in 1985 to 3,643 in 2005.

Bishop O'Donoghue has produced a report, Fit for Mission? Church, examining the current problems facing the Church and designed "to enable Catholic men, women and children to resist the pressures to compromise, even abandon, the truths of the Catholic faith".

He says that he supports Catholics receiving a university education, but urges they should be "better-equipped to challenge the erroneous thinking of their contemporaries".

Nicholas Lash, the former Norris-Hulse Professor of Divinity at Cambridge University, called the bishop's comments "extremely grave".

Writing in this week's Tablet - a respected Catholic journal - Prof Lash says: "If he had named a particular university or universities, or particular individuals, he might well have had a series of libel actions on his hands.

"Quite what constructive purpose could possibly be served by such irresponsible and wholesale scapegoating of the educated, I have simply no idea."
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Samuel »

I love it when they state the obvious... and don't realize the hypocricy :lol:
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Darth Ruinus »

"Taken together, these intellectual trends have resulted in a fragmented society that marginalizes God, with many people mistakenly thinking they can live happy and productive lives without him."
It's true! It's true! My meaningless facade must be a thin veil for they see through it as if where not there!!! My life is a miserable pit of desperation without the glory of the Lord!

Please, let me be saved!!!

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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by PainRack »

Nicholas Lash, the former Norris-Hulse Professor of Divinity at Cambridge University, called the bishop's comments "extremely grave".

Writing in this week's Tablet - a respected Catholic journal - Prof Lash says: "If he had named a particular university or universities, or particular individuals, he might well have had a series of libel actions on his hands.
Hmmm........ why does this sound like an out of context quote?
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Metatwaddle »

"However, every human endeavor has a dark side, due to original sin and concupiscence. In the case of education, we can see its distortion through the widespread dissemination of radical scepticism, positivism, utilitarianism and relativism.

"Taken together, these intellectual trends have resulted in a fragmented society that marginalizes God, with many people mistakenly thinking they can live happy and productive lives without him.
I don't suppose it's occurred to Bishop O'Donoghue that practically nobody is actually a radical skeptic (since we all basically trust our senses and think that other people are conscious beings), logical positivism is not actually that popular among philosophers (since it says all ethical and metaphysical statements are meaningless), and utilitarianism and relativism are directly opposed to each other.

Maybe the reason he resents educated people so much is because he could never understand philosophy when he went to university.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Zixinus »


"However, every human endeavor has a dark side, due to original sin and concupiscence. In the case of education, we can see its distortion through the widespread dissemination of radical scepticism, positivism, utilitarianism and relativism.
In other words, things that suddenly make the violent philosophies of 2000 year old goatfuckers stupid? Yeah.

I think considering stuff like the 30-year war, it's a good thing.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by dragon »

There's a time and place for religion and its not in schools even universities. I spent two years at a Catholic university and while he had priest and such around on the campus they never pressed their beliefs on to the students that didn't follow them.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by PainRack »

Metatwaddle wrote:I don't suppose it's occurred to Bishop O'Donoghue that practically nobody is actually a radical skeptic (since we all basically trust our senses and think that other people are conscious beings), logical positivism is not actually that popular among philosophers (since it says all ethical and metaphysical statements are meaningless), and utilitarianism and relativism are directly opposed to each other.

Maybe the reason he resents educated people so much is because he could never understand philosophy when he went to university.
Lol.... this really deserves to be FUQ...
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Solauren »

Making people smarter is bad for religion?

Who'd have thunk it?
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by The Vortex Empire »

High Education and Religion don't mix? Really? I never would have guessed.

There was a time when everyone in the West was devoutly Christian, as this guy would like. It was called the Dark Ages.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

Regarding his comment about positivism, I don't think he's actually referring to Logical Positivism itself, but rather a broader application of the term. Positivism is often used to mean technocratic or scientific social ideology (in the sense that it is a belief in the power and utility of science in application to the betterment of society--the best and more important means to attain understanding of the world).
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Garlak »

I think his real gripe is about secularism. It's not about high education in and of itself, it's that religion doesn't dominate education like it used to do. There was a time period when being literate and educated and going to, or belonging to a, church went hand in hand. In such a scenario, religion could dictate and control or manipulate what people thought, what they learned, how they thought... But now education and higher education is divorced from religious indoctrination.

Religion has so many contradictory, hypocritical and paradoxical sects, time periods, and messages, that the only constants I can nail down are: gain control over people, impress upon others your moral/ethical codes, and try to get people young to indoctrinate them. (So, it's not "just" about smart people = bad, but a measure of whether the church can control those smart people. Now, it doesn't have the well-educated completely under its thumb, so there's a vocal/noticeable "science is bad!" vibe from the religious...)
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by La Maupin »

Bishop says something retarded. Millions of Catholics don't care. Film at 11.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Bilbo »

Damn those educated people daring to think for themself. Don't they know the Church cannot dominate their lives and thoughts if people realize that they do not need God or religion.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Admiral Valdemar »

I got my degree at Lancaster University. There's a bar in town that used to be a church and another that is now a curry house. The town's sole business revenue comes from the students there today, rather than linoleum.

If anything, you ain't going to get many religionists around that area these days, and that's the way of the rest of the country today.

Remember, folks, don't eat from the Tree of Knowledge. That serpent is tricking you, for knowing shit is only going to make you question authority. And we all know the Church loves a bit of power.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Darth Lucifer »

Wow, a fundie thinks education is bad because it takes people away from religion. Color me shocked. :roll:
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Shinova »

My thinking was couldn't he have been vague about it rather than being obvious and sounding almost comic-book villian silly? :lol:
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Samuel »

Shinova wrote:My thinking was couldn't he have been vague about it rather than being obvious and sounding almost comic-book villian silly? :lol:
I'm beginning to suspect that comic book villians were based on some of the things actual people have done. After all, the card board cut out judge in the Cruicible is based of the real ones who were worse.
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Re: Bishop claims education causing dissent in the church

Post by Jericho Kross »

Did anyone else laugh at this? :lol:
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