Evangelicals debate sex and marriage

[Darth Wong]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/sex ... le1246158/

Sex and marriage? Evangelicals conflicted
Eric Gorski
The Associated Press
Last updated on Sunday, Aug. 09, 2009 04:06PM EDT

When Margie and Stephen Zumbrun were battling the urge to have premarital sex, a pastor counseled them to control themselves. The couple signed a purity covenant.

Then, when the two got engaged and Margie went wedding dress shopping, a salesperson called her “the bride who looks like she's 12.” Nonchurch friends said that, at 22, she was rushing things.

The agonizing message to a young Christian couple in love: Sex can wait, but so can marriage.

“It's unreasonable to say, 'Don't do anything ... and wait until you have degrees and you're in your 30s to get married,”' said Margie Zumbrun, who did wait for sex, and married Stephen fresh out of Purdue University. “I think that's just inviting people to have sex and feel like they're bad people for doing it.”

Against that backdrop, a number of evangelicals are promoting marrying earlier, nudging young adults toward the altar even as many of their peers and parents are holding them back.

Couples like the Zumbruns are caught between two powerful forces — evangelical Christianity's abstinence culture, with its chastity balls and virginity pledges, and societal forces pushing average marriage ages deeper into the 20s.

The call for young marriage raises questions: How young is too young? What if marriage is viewed as a ticket to guilt-free sex? What about the fact that marrying young is the No. 1 predictor of divorce?

The conversation is spreading from what pastors say is a relatively small number of churches and ministries that promote early marriage to the broader evangelical community, with the latest development being a Christianity Today magazine cover story this month titled “The Case for Young Marriage.”

The article's author, University of Texas sociologist Mark Regnerus, argues that evangelicals “have made much ado about sex” but are damaging the institution of marriage by discouraging and delaying it.

Regnerus is not saying that premarital sex is OK. But he does suggest that abstinence has its limits, and that intensifying the message won't work. When people wait until their mid- to late 20s to marry, he writes, it's unrealistic and “battling our creator's reproductive designs” to expect them to wait that long for sex.

Statistics show that few Americans wait. More than 93 percent of adults 18 to 23 who are in romantic relationships are having sex, according to the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health. For conservative Protestants in relationships and active in their faith, it's almost 80 percent.

Regnerus, a conservative Presbyterian, knocks the “abstinence industry” for perpetuating “a blissful myth” that great sex awaits just beyond the wedding reception. He advises against teen marriage, but argues that early 20s marriages are not as risky as advertised.

“I'll probably get framed as I want people to marry because I don't want them to have premarital sex,” said Regnerus, author of “Forbidden Fruit: Sex and Religion in the Lives of American Teenagers.”

“I think marriage is just a fantastic institution for people who think rightly about it, have realistic ideas about it and put the requisite work into it.”

The median age for first marriages in the U.S. is about 26 for women and 28 for men, the highest figures since the Census Bureau began counting. Solid data on evangelicals is not readily available, but research suggests they marry only slightly younger, Regnerus said.

High-school sweethearts Megan and Jay Mkrtschjan planned to marry at 20. But the suburban Chicago couple waited an extra year to finish college under pressure from Megan's parents.

There were few doubts in their minds about marrying young. They had found each other. Why wait?

“For me, it was really a trust issue,” Megan said. “Marrying right out of college was showing our friends, showing the people we were acquainted with, that we trusted our lives with God.”

For Jay, a songwriter and guitarist, “the sex issue” was the best argument for early marriage. “By getting married young and dating for a shorter period of time, it leaves less room to sin sexually,” he said.

Now four years married, the Mkrtschjans say their relative youth helped them through early trials, which at one point took them down to $26 in the checking account.

“We were going through these hardships together,” said Megan, a fifth-grade teacher who owns a cake-decorating business. “It made things easier because we weren't stuck in our ways. We were open to what each other had to say.”

Many young adults today view their 20s as a time for fun, travel, career-building or finding themselves — not for settling down.

Among evangelicals, there's a tendency to wait because many believe God “is going to deliver me a spouse right to my door,” so they don't actively seek one, said Glenn Stanton, director of family formation studies for the evangelical ministry Focus on the Family, a young marriage promoter.

Then there's what Stanton calls the “eHarmony philosophy” — the belief God will deliver someone perfect.

Stanton doesn't blame the abstinence movement. “I don't think that it's so much to much focus on abstinence, but the silence on marriage makes the abstinence message sound so much louder,” he said.

At Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C., associate pastor Michael Lawrence emphasizes that marriage is a covenant, not a convenient arrangement, and offers advice to young couples on overcoming arguments over money, sex and family.

“We probably haven't served our young people well by on the one hand emphasizing abstinence, but on the other hand telling them to wait to get married,” Lawrence said. “It seems to be setting them up to fail.”

Like most proponents of young marriage, Lawrence does not set an arbitrary “right” age for marriage. Waiting until after college might be advisable if the alternative is crushing debt or dropping out, he said.

Supporters of abstinence programs promote them as both marriage-preparation tools and longer-term support systems for those who don't marry.

Jimmy Hester, co-founder of True Love Waits, part of the Southern Baptist Convention's LifeWay Christian Resources, disagreed with the argument that abstinence past a certain age is too much to ask.

“There are too many examples of people who have done it,” he said. “And not out of their own strength, even, but out of a relationship with God who gives them strength.”

Johns Hopkins University sociologist Andrew Cherlin, who studies families and public policy, said young marriage is a tough sell. A half-century ago, when people married earlier, fewer people attended college, high school graduates could get good-paying factory jobs, women became mothers right after school and families were larger, he said.

“Most evangelicals, as well as most Americans, realize how expensive it is to raise children these days,” Cherlin said. “The most important rationale for early marriage — having a larger family — has disappeared.”

Some single evangelical women want to marry young, but the numbers are against them: single women outnumber single men in churches 3 to 2, and the available men are postponing growing up, Regnerus and others say.

Skeptics, meanwhile, suspect early marriage backers want to turn back the clock on gender roles.

“There is some rolling of the eyes, especially among women ... 'Why are you giving up your 20s and going back to the 1950s and June Cleaver?”' said Jay Thomas, college pastor at College Church in Wheaton, Ill.

Other evangelicals simply want to wait and cite their faith as motivation. Valerie Strattan, 24, of Chicago, has a serious boyfriend of 2 1/2 years. She believes that for now, God has called them to focus on separate pursuits: he's a musician, she works in refugee resettlement.

“We don't feel the rush to marry,” Strattan said. “If I am listening to God, and he is listening to God, then God isn't going to lead us in separate places if he does truly want us to get married.”

I wonder if they even realize how foolish this all looks to an outsider. It says something about the insularity of Christianity that so many of them honestly have no idea how utterly absurd this debate looks.

[Isolder74]

How is getting married at 22 rushing things? I work at a University and having kids is not a big crimp on finishing school we even have complimentary day care.

[Darth Wong]

How is getting married at 22 rushing things? I work at a University and having kids is not a big crimp on finishing school we even have complimentary day care.

I got married at 22 so I can be accused of bias on this, but I don't think it's rushing things. Mind you, we were having sex for years before that.

In any case, people should get married when they feel they're ready for marriage, not before or after. If they hold off because they think it's "too early" by someone else's standards, that makes no sense. If they rush into it because they have to have sex, that's just stupid.

[Solauren]

I would absolutely love to see a break down of divorces and marriages (with relationship status, i.e Happy, Crappy, etc) that included things like religious domination at time of marriage, and if they'd been sexually active prior to marriage. An HONEST one too.

I'd be willing to bet the unhappy marriages and divorces had the highest percentage of 'waited until marriage for sex'.

Get married, when you are ready
Have sex, when you are ready

Do not get married because you want to get laid.

That is the single STUPIDEST reason to get married I've ever heard. I can't even think of what's second place next to that, it's so stupid.

[Simon_Jester]

I think it's nice that even the fundies are starting to figure out that the "no sex until marriage" social model breaks down when combined with "don't marry till you turn 30." I wouldn't have expected them to notice.

They've latched onto the wrong solution to the problem, but at least they managed to perceive the problem, so I'll give them a D for effort.

[dragon]

How is getting married at 22 rushing things? I work at a University and having kids is not a big crimp on finishing school we even have complimentary day care.

Maybe because when you're in your early 20's your attitude and ideas will most likly change by time your 30.
So the type of person you fell in love with ant 20 might not be the same type of person later in life.
Take for my wife as an example when she was 22 she worked in a club, dressed as a goth and goth. Now she 39 and has told me that when she was 27 her tastes complety changed and now she a university professor.
For me when I was ealry 20's I liked skinny girls and couldn't stand big women, now I find skinny girls unappealing and my wife is technically obese.

Now granted this isn't everyone that change but quit a few do. I guess that why I like being here in German even the Catholic Church here says that sex before marriage is not a sin and that birth control is fine.

[Alyeska]

The more Religious/Conservative you are, the higher your rates of divorce are.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

My favorite part

Variation in divorce rates by religion:
Religion % have been divorced
Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

And to address this request

I would absolutely love to see a break down of divorces and marriages (with relationship status, i.e Happy, Crappy, etc) that included things like religious domination at time of marriage, and if they'd been sexually active prior to marriage. An HONEST one too.

Oh, its even more delicious then you think.

Hughes claim that 90% of divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been "saved."

[Solauren]

Not quite the detail I was looking for, but still, not surprising.

[Darth Wong]

Personally, when I read what evangelicals write about marriage, I see the seeds of marital discord right there. They always talk about God's Will and God bringing them together and God deciding what will happen, etc. This lays the groundwork for people thinking that the continued future health of their marriage is somehow out of their control, ie- it's a matter of Fate or God's Will rather than their own hard work and dedication.

When a normal person has marital problems, he or she will try to work out the problems with the spouse, or possibly with a secular marriage counselor. When people like this have marital problems, they ask God for strength and guidance. And what do they do when he doesn't answer? Worse yet, what if their particular marital problem is a disagreement about faith? You can pretty much kiss that marriage goodbye, frankly.

[Solauren]

More and more, Evangelical marriages sound more and more like pre-arranged marriages from the middle-ages.

The difference is, it's possible to escape such a marriage in modern society.

[Simon_Jester]

I think I missed the "pre-arranged" part of evangelist marriages. Could you expand on that?

[Darth Wong]

I think I missed the "pre-arranged" part of evangelist marriages. Could you expand on that?

He just means that evangelicals downplay the "personal choice" aspect of relationships in favour of destiny, God's Will, and other such pre-determination talk. It's not actually equivalent to the kind of pre-arranged marriage where the parents choose your mate for you, but it's similar in the sense that you are expected to overlook any misgivings you might have because of the belief that you have been chosen.

[Dark Flame]

Among evangelicals, there's a tendency to wait because many believe God “is going to deliver me a spouse right to my door,” so they don't actively seek one

So basically, repressed losers don't even try to get girlfriends because God will deliver the perfect one. And when that perfect one shows up, they know it! And they'll never let that perfect fish get away, it's The Will of The Great Sky PixieTM!

Is it just me, or is this setting them up to be creepy 30 year old virgins in their parents' basements?

[Oskuro]

He just means that evangelicals downplay the "personal choice" aspect of relationships in favour of destiny, God's Will, and other such pre-determination talk. It's not actually equivalent to the kind of pre-arranged marriage where the parents choose your mate for you, but it's similar in the sense that you are expected to overlook any misgivings you might have because of the belief that you have been chosen.

Unless we're referring to conservative families who pressure their children to choose someone they approve of. I've had an ex of mine being pressure by her family to break up with me because I wasn't of their same "education", and that was a somewhat liberal (yet religious) family from around here, not the zealotish wackos you can get on the other side of the ocean, so I can imagine the "pre-arranged" part can be quite literal in some instances.

[Knife]

How is getting married at 22 rushing things? I work at a University and having kids is not a big crimp on finishing school we even have complimentary day care.

I think a lot of that has to do with cultural notions of marriage versus an individuals notion of marriage. A lot of religious places (shit man we live in Utah) kids are pretty much raised with a: high school, college, mission, marriage, kids, perfect job, happy life.....plan all mapped out for them. While an individuals notion may simply be, when I find the right man/woman that I like being with and love more than I love myself.

In the first one, the plan dictates marriage at a certain point, while the second one it's not nailed down to any given time. That's why you have people thinking 22 is either too old for marriage (or lagging behind) and/or rushing things. They are taking some sort of fixed model of how one's life is supposed to happen with major events as markers.

[Darth Wong]

I think a lot of that has to do with cultural notions of marriage versus an individuals notion of marriage. A lot of religious places (shit man we live in Utah) kids are pretty much raised with a: high school, college, mission, marriage, kids, perfect job, happy life.....plan all mapped out for them. While an individuals notion may simply be, when I find the right man/woman that I like being with and love more than I love myself.

In the first one, the plan dictates marriage at a certain point, while the second one it's not nailed down to any given time. That's why you have people thinking 22 is either too old for marriage (or lagging behind) and/or rushing things. They are taking some sort of fixed model of how one's life is supposed to happen with major events as markers.

To be honest, I think the only reason people wait so long to get married nowadays is the extended infantilization period of the 21st century. You have people who have been out of school for ten years and whose lifestyles haven't changed one iota in all that time (unless you count the purchase of progressively more expensive toys and clothes). Marrying is something of a major threshold in terms of adulthood; it is the acceptance of a major commitment and responsibility, and in an era where people are postponing adulthood for as long as they can, people want to put off marriage too. That's one of the reasons you see all of these 40 year old women desperately paying big bucks for fertility treatments; they married in their 30s, procrastinated motherhood till the very last second, and then discovered they waited too long.

[Knife]

To be honest, I think the only reason people wait so long to get married nowadays is the extended infantilization period of the 21st century. You have people who have been out of school for ten years and whose lifestyles haven't changed one iota in all that time (unless you count the purchase of progressively more expensive toys and clothes). Marrying is something of a major threshold in terms of adulthood; it is the acceptance of a major commitment and responsibility, and in an era where people are postponing adulthood for as long as they can, people want to put off marriage too. That's one of the reasons you see all of these 40 year old women desperately paying big bucks for fertility treatments; they married in their 30s, procrastinated motherhood till the very last second, and then discovered they waited too long.

I see your point, but contend it is really just the counter culture to the religious version. Again, if you are raised in the religious version you have the plan of: high school, college, marriage, job, kids, happy life. That's mom and pop's version of their religion. We have a counter culture to that that is pushing the age back more and more (you article) and is pushing 'marriage' further out. Marriage, though, I think serves as a marker in life. Not necessarily to be fixed, but as a symbol of leaving kid shit behind due to it's enormously huge responsibility. IMO, that's why divorse rate is so high, you have to experience the high responsibility rate before you can accept and/or reject it. Not saying people can't be logical about it and see what's coming, but to actually experience it first hand is an eye opener. Even you must realize that, if you can logically predict what's coming is a bit different than actually experiencing it.

[Darth Wong]

I see your point, but contend it is really just the counter culture to the religious version. Again, if you are raised in the religious version you have the plan of: high school, college, marriage, job, kids, happy life. That's mom and pop's version of their religion. We have a counter culture to that that is pushing the age back more and more (you article) and is pushing 'marriage' further out.

Non-religious people have a life script too: they delay marriage because they believe they need a certain level of material wealth and security before they can marry. That dovetails with the aversion to responsibility to make people marry later and later. The "financial security" issue is a handy indefinite delaying argument, since no one is ever truly financially secure unless he's absurdly rich.

Marriage, though, I think serves as a marker in life. Not necessarily to be fixed, but as a symbol of leaving kid shit behind due to it's enormously huge responsibility. IMO, that's why divorse rate is so high, you have to experience the high responsibility rate before you can accept and/or reject it. Not saying people can't be logical about it and see what's coming, but to actually experience it first hand is an eye opener. Even you must realize that, if you can logically predict what's coming is a bit different than actually experiencing it.

I would say that's more true of parenting than being married. Becoming a parent was a very fast learning curve, and a lifestyle change for which it is difficult to prepare through intellectual exercise alone. I didn't find marriage to be the same kind of situation.

[Rye]

People should take longer to get married. Truth is, you don't need a piece of paper to be devoted to someone, and around half of marriages don't work out anyway as it is. If they'd waited ten years or so, got past the seven year itch and were sure they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with one another, great, get married. Otherwise, why bother?

[Knife]

I see your point, but contend it is really just the counter culture to the religious version. Again, if you are raised in the religious version you have the plan of: high school, college, marriage, job, kids, happy life. That's mom and pop's version of their religion. We have a counter culture to that that is pushing the age back more and more (you article) and is pushing 'marriage' further out.

Non-religious people have a life script too: they delay marriage because they believe they need a certain level of material wealth and security before they can marry. That dovetails with the aversion to responsibility to make people marry later and later. The "financial security" issue is a handy indefinite delaying argument, since no one is ever truly financially secure unless he's absurdly rich.

Fair enough. Though not always. There is a percentage out there who just don't 'find' a compatible mate till later.

Marriage, though, I think serves as a marker in life. Not necessarily to be fixed, but as a symbol of leaving kid shit behind due to it's enormously huge responsibility. IMO, that's why divorse rate is so high, you have to experience the high responsibility rate before you can accept and/or reject it. Not saying people can't be logical about it and see what's coming, but to actually experience it first hand is an eye opener. Even you must realize that, if you can logically predict what's coming is a bit different than actually experiencing it.

I would say that's more true of parenting than being married. Becoming a parent was a very fast learning curve, and a lifestyle change for which it is difficult to prepare through intellectual exercise alone. I didn't find marriage to be the same kind of situation.

Oh I agree, parenting increases the work load exponentially.

[Darth Wong]

People should take longer to get married. Truth is, you don't need a piece of paper to be devoted to someone, and around half of marriages don't work out anyway as it is. If they'd waited ten years or so, got past the seven year itch and were sure they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with one another, great, get married. Otherwise, why bother?

"Devotion" is not the same as commitment. Any lovestruck teenager can say he's devoted to his girlfriend that he met last weekend while drunk and stoned. Commitment means you'll stick by that person even through thick and thin. The piece of paper means that you're so committed that you're not afraid of serious legal repercussions in the event that you should you walk away.

As for half of marriages failing, that's not quite the same as half of people getting into marriages which are bound to fail. Many people go through multiple divorces, which increases the rate of marriage failure well above the percentage of people whose first marriages will actually fail.

[Knife]

People should take longer to get married. Truth is, you don't need a piece of paper to be devoted to someone, and around half of marriages don't work out anyway as it is. If they'd waited ten years or so, got past the seven year itch and were sure they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with one another, great, get married. Otherwise, why bother?

Your putting undo onus on marriage then. If you are 'together' past 7 years, you are as married as you are going to get. You are confusing the legal definition with the common version. Gene Simmons, for fucks sake, has been with his 'girlfriend' for over two decades. He may not be 'legally' married but had made a life long commitment. That is what marriage is. If you are committed to make the 7 year mark, or the 5 year mark, you are married in all the ways that matter.

[Rye]

"Devotion" is not the same as commitment. Any lovestruck teenager can say he's devoted to his girlfriend that he met last weekend while drunk and stoned. Commitment means you'll stick by that person even through thick and thin. The piece of paper means that you're so committed that you're not afraid of serious legal repercussions in the event that you should you walk away.

I realise that. I also think that loads of people who get married don't realise that. Get married after ten years and you've lost nothing, split after seven, same thing.

[SAMAS]

Among evangelicals, there's a tendency to wait because many believe God “is going to deliver me a spouse right to my door,” so they don't actively seek one

So basically, repressed losers don't even try to get girlfriends because God will deliver the perfect one. And when that perfect one shows up, they know it! And they'll never let that perfect fish get away, it's The Will of The Great Sky PixieTM!

Is it just me, or is this setting them up to be creepy 30 year old virgins in their parents' basements?

Nah, it's more of they eventually do find someone, choose them, then chalk it up to "God's Will" if it works out.

[Silver Jedi]

Among evangelicals, there's a tendency to wait because many believe God “is going to deliver me a spouse right to my door,” so they don't actively seek one

So basically, repressed losers don't even try to get girlfriends because God will deliver the perfect one. And when that perfect one shows up, they know it! And they'll never let that perfect fish get away, it's The Will of The Great Sky PixieTM!

Is it just me, or is this setting them up to be creepy 30 year old virgins in their parents' basements?

Nah, it's more of they eventually do find someone, choose them, then chalk it up to "God's Will" if it works out.

The problem is, at this point, our hypothetical evangelical has never been in a relationship, so they have no idea how to handle one, so it probably won't work out. The alternative is even worse: they marry the first person they meet, and then spend their lives in an unhappy (or worse, abusive) relationship because it's God's Will that they be together.