How to make science and engineering degrees more popular?

[Shaun]

I'm sure it won't come as news to anyone but in the UK we are facing vast shortages of skills in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM). Barely a week goes by without someone on a student or jobs website linking to an article about an industry boss complaining about how hard it is to find university graduates with the appropriate skills and knowledge to work in the engineering and technology sector. Reports suggest that this is harming our economy. I'm told that the situation is quite similar in the States and Canada as well.

A report has said that around 12% of UK graduates graduated with a degree in STEM. The report suggests that this number is vastly inferior to the required targets needed for our economy. STEM graduates must increase by over 100% if we are to keep up with the predicted growth in the economy.

OK, so we've came across a problem: lack of STEM skills and knowledge amongst our graduates and in the jobs market. But I'm an engineering student so I'm not going to give up upon coming across a problem; I'm going to attempt to look at solutions which could possible solve it, or at least lessen it.

However, even more horrifying than the lack of people interested in STEM degrees, are the amount of people who have them but then go into non STEM related work. The figure is ~50% I think!

There's a few things I think it comes down to.

1) Service economy culture. As a nation we seem to be much more interested in handling people's money and being administrators (yawn) than rockets and designing spaceships. Yeah, sure, every seven year old wants to be an astronaut or design skyscrapers but when it comes to jobs time they want to deal with people's pensions or get some generic public sector job. I think the attitude very much is 'why work in science and technology when you can be in business and management?'

2) Generic graduate recruitment. The majority of graduate jobs and graduate recruitment schemes do not ask for any specific degree, and a lot of the ones that do are things like medicine and dentistry where it is expected that the graduate does exactly what the degree entails. Therefore as long as someone gets a upper second class degree pass they can be considered for the vast majority of graduate jobs out there, like telling middle age people where to put their money or working in a recruitment consultancy, just like they dreamed of when they were a little kid.

3) Lack of knowledge about what you can do with a STEM degree. Engineers repair boilers. Computer scientists tell people to make sure their printer is plugged in correctly. Mathematicians do loads of counting and chemists heat up test tubes with Bunsen burners. Yet bankers and lawyers = big £££ and working in a nice office in "the city".

4) Oh and poor science education at younger ages. The report linked to earlier shows how inadequate our science education is. Non STEM grads also seem to perpetuate the myth that STEM isn't creative or innovative; I can't count the number of times I've been told by art students that my engineering degree is merely about putting numbers into equations. I soon correct that but the myth still pervades society.

I think 2) is a symptom of the fact that because so many people now have degrees, employers want candidates to have a degree now anyway, even for jobs that don't require specialist knowledge obtained during one.

I suppose that one of my biggest fears is that in a technologically advancing world Britain will be left behind the times. We'll be full of people who can criticise literature; manage people's bank accounts; write about Machiavellian politics or whatever and discuss international relations, but not enough people who can design the technology that will continue to transform our lives for the better. All skills and disciplines are valuable and necessary but we need a balance and the statistics show that we are very unbalanced.

[Lagmonster]

You've identified all the roadblocks, from "math is hard" to "rewards are unclear". Allow me to be frank; there are no easy ways to convince people to do hard jobs. The people who work in our most valuable (knowledge-wise) non-administrative positions are here because they want to be here. Everyone else is here because it was the best job they could get. I don't think I've ever met a senior researcher who said, "I didn't WANT to work in immunology, but darn it, it was all I was ever any good at."

Better advertising, better science education, more awareness of the need, as in medicine, won't make a difference; it'll all come down to convincing people to do hard work.

[Commander 598]

3) Lack of knowledge about what you can do with a STEM degree. Engineers repair boilers. Computer scientists tell people to make sure their printer is plugged in correctly. Mathematicians do loads of counting and chemists heat up test tubes with Bunsen burners. Yet bankers and lawyers = big £££ and working in a nice office in "the city".

Lack of knowledge? I think you're looking at it the wrong way. People DO know what happens to the majority of people with those degrees, engineers go to college to become over-educated repairmen (I don't actually know if this is true but I'm working off your example), CS degree holders become that guy on the other end of a tech support line or a character from Office Space until his job is outsourced to India, etc. Actually, maybe it's a bit of both: People who want money and people who have heard all the stories of crushed science dreams.

[Coyote]

Add "unattainability".

It's unattainable because (#1): That's for those super-smart genius people.
It's unattainable because (#2): It takes years and years and tons of money to get that kind of degree*.







* ...and for nebulous or poorly understood reward, as posited above.

[ray245]

On the other hand, it seems that engineering and science degrees are quite popular down here. There seems to be a push towards studying science and maths as most people tends to think that studying language, humanities and social sciences are useless.

There are people studying business, but I'm not sure whether it is more popular than studying science and engineering.

[Twoyboy]

I personally think that money would still be the overriding factor in all that. It's also the hardest one to combat. Let's face it, if you're smart enough to get a degree in nuclear physics, you're probably smart enough to earn a lot more doing something else.

I chose my degree (double in chem and chem eng) based on money... and a little bit of indecisiveness. And I chose to work outside of my degree, in market consulting, for the same reason (and a little bit to stay in Perth rather than FIFO). You can pull every PR campaign known to man on it, but when the reality sets in, a majority of people will, sadly, follow the money.

[adam_grif]

When you're looking at prospective careers, it's a bit like this:

Science degree:

- Do super boring subjects.
- Do subjects that require an alien skillset for most people
- Become a researcher and get shit pay with an uncertain future OR get some vaguely defined, unspecified job that you don't even know about yet.
- Completely non-prestegeous, nerd stereotype association with fields (computing, physics especially)
- Depending on specific subject, there are no fucking women at all.

Arts degree:

- Most of your friends are doing it.
- Enormously diverse range of interesting topics
- Somewhat easier than other degrees.
- Can have solid job prospects depending on field, but varies heavily.

Law degree:

- Very prestigeous.
- Very hard.
- If you get a job, it pays really well.
- Law faculty throws mad parties.


People who want to cruise, are getting a degree "just because its the thing to do" or don't know what they want will do an arts degree. People in it for the money or the prestige will do Law or Accounting or something like that. The number of people who want to do science is comparatively tiny.

[Norade]

I'm taking a CIS degree this fall and I'm actually doing it because it is one of the decent paying jobs that will allow me to stay in my beautiful city and looking at the entry level wages $50,000 a year for doing something I enjoy isn't half bad. Of course that said Kelowna does have a good tech sector and is home to Club Penguin so I may have more opportunity than most. I also don't mind settling for being a London Drugs tech support guy if it means staying in my home town and enjoying the beach, mountains, and staying near the friends I've made.

[bobalot]

I got an Engineering Degree in Australia. I'm a bit lucky here because of a skills shortage and the minerals boom has pushed up Engineers pay by about 20% over the last 10 years.

But the fact is you can get paid shitloads more for doing easier jobs (See Finance). I just like what I do.

[Norade]

Engineering wages did go up even in 2008 when the economy was at its worst so things may slowly change as supply continues to not meet demand.

[Shaun]

You've identified all the roadblocks, from "math is hard" to "rewards are unclear". Allow me to be frank; there are no easy ways to convince people to do hard jobs. The people who work in the AgriCan labs' most valuable (knowledge-wise) non-administrative positions are here because they want to be here. Everyone else is here because it was the best government job they could get. I don't think I've ever met a senior researcher who said, "I didn't WANT to work in immunology, but darn it, it was all I was ever any good at."

Better advertising, better science education, more awareness of the need, as in medicine, won't make a difference; it'll all come down to convincing people to do hard work.

You make a very valid point. People generally are lazy and want to take the easy way out. I'm a bit different, though, in that I enjoy the challenge of doing something difficult and I feel a real sense of accomplishment when I achieve something. I think it's quite sad that a lot of people will never really get this...

Add "unattainability".

It's unattainable because (#1): That's for those super-smart genius people.
It's unattainable because (#2): It takes years and years and tons of money to get that kind of degree*.







* ...and for nebulous or poorly understood reward, as posited above.

That might be a valid excuse in the States where tuition fees are much larger and can vary between university and subject(s) chosen. However, here in Scotland, school leavers pay zilch in tuition fees for their first undergraduate degree. My degree, MEng mechanical engineering, is costing me absolutely nothing apart from course materials like pens and paper. 5 years of an undergraduate degree completely free for me.

In the rest of the UK they have tuition fees, but these are exactly the same across all universities and for all subjects (apart from some health ones where the government pays for it).

[Norade]

That might be a valid excuse in the States where tuition fees are much larger and can vary between university and subject(s) chosen. However, here in Scotland, school leavers pay zilch in tuition fees for their first undergraduate degree. My degree, MEng mechanical engineering, is costing me absolutely nothing apart from course materials like pens and paper. 5 years of an undergraduate degree completely free for me.

In the rest of the UK they have tuition fees, but these are exactly the same across all universities and for all subjects (apart from some health ones where the government pays for it).

That's awesome, I'm lucky enough to get the first two years of my degree covered because I was in foster care (could have been the entire course, but I never knew they did it or that there was an expiration age for the money...). Even if not it would only be about $20,000 for the entire course, maybe a bit worse after books.

[PaperJack]

I'm planning to go studying in a Business college in Canada.
Originally I looked forward to 2 alternatives: Engineering or Medicine.
Engineering because I really like inventing all sorts of (usually dangerous) things and make stuff, but then I saw that it mostly involved formulas and putting numbers into a calculator so I backed out.
Medicine because, well, I find the workings of the human body interesting. But then I noticed it takes more than 9 years to get something decent and therefore I backed out.

Business is relatively short (3 years?) and pays really well.
Considering the amount of time and money I'll put in it, it's by far the best choice in my opinion.

[Shaun]

Engineering because I really like inventing all sorts of (usually dangerous) things and make stuff, but then I saw that it mostly involved formulas and putting numbers into a calculator so I backed out.

In the earlier years when you need to expand your maths and physics skills, yes; in the later years when you have projects to complete and they are really testing your design and creativity, no, not really.

Besides, we input them into Matlab not a hand held calculator.

[Resinence]

I agree with OP it's public ignorance.

Science is "psh anyone can put numbers into a formula, I do it in excel every day!"
Technology is "psh anyone can tell a computer what to do, whats a programming language? hey can you fix my laptop, isn't that what you guys do?"
Engineering is "smug repairman, psh I fixed my garage the other day, what makes your job so hard?".
Medicine = "grows things in petrie dishes... psh I have a garden I could do that but I'm too smart to waste my time"

"Smart" and "Creative" people get into Business and Service now.
People don't understand the fields so they assume that it's easy and they could do it too, business gets the glory, they have better PR.

They are hard because you can't fake competance, you must produce tangible results. A rocket, a bridge, a system, a healthy patient or a drug etc. The currently popular jobs are the ones where you can "fake it till you make it" without putting in the hard work of understanding the source material and applying it.

I have respect for those getting into the jobs because they enjoy it but thats definitely not the majority.

Considering the amount of time and money I'll put in it, it's by far the best choice in my opinion.

Assuming money is the only concern, whats a fulfilling life worth?

[AniThyng]

On the other hand, it seems that engineering and science degrees are quite popular down here. There seems to be a push towards studying science and maths as most people tends to think that studying language, humanities and social sciences are useless.

There are people studying business, but I'm not sure whether it is more popular than studying science and engineering.

Which is why of course, after that we either:

a)Migrate overseas and help fill the gap in countries like the UK and AUS

b)Stay back and take the jobs that have been outsourced by the western MNCs

Seeing as that East Asian culture as a whole places a lot of emphasis on being able to provide for the family and not rocking the boat, and there's no surer way to do that then with a well paying job and for average people (and not the scions of rich families who instead go politics and business) that is going to mean engineering, law, accounting, medicine or some sort of business/management course. It generally does not mean raw science, arts, history or such.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I support the creation of some sort of hot and/or slutty 'science groupie', which will encourage upstanding young men to persue careers in science and engineering 'for the chicks'.

There will, of course, be male science groupies for the female scientists.

[adam_grif]

I support the creation of some sort of hot and/or slutty 'science groupie', which will encourage upstanding young men to persue careers in science and engineering 'for the chicks'.

There will, of course, be male science groupies for the female scientists.

Government grants for the throwing of legendary engineering barrels.

[PeZook]

The Polish government is running an ad campaign with famous people saying tech/science studies are for cool people and pay very well and are interesting and guarantee employment.

It remains to be seen how effective this is, though. Last year, the physics department of the University Of Gdansk (my home city) got a total of...two candidates. Yes, two (2) people applied.

As for myself, I'm one of those people who coasted through university (Economics/Marketing). I really regret not doing some sci/tech field, but to fix this, I'd have to go back in time to high school and literally beat myself up, so I guess I'm stuck where I am.

Joy

[Jeremy]

I support the creation of some sort of hot and/or slutty 'science groupie', which will encourage upstanding young men to persue careers in science and engineering 'for the chicks'.

My titration and calorimetry skills drive the ladies mad.

[Coyote]

There are surely other things, too. A scientist or engineer is seen as spending long hours in a sterile lab, or maybe even having to spend time in a bunny suit in a clean room, etc. An investment banker, OTOH, can wear Armani, impress the cute little secretary with the perky boobs, and nip out to Starbucks for a latte whenever he feels like it.

Also, if your business model fails, you just write off the loss on your taxes and try for a new marketing strategy. If your experiment fails, there's zero room to fudge things. Science is probably perceived as more exact, demanding, and unforgiving than hedge fund management.

[RazorOutlaw]

I've taken science courses before but after taking a physics course this summer (to learn and see what it was like) there is simply no comparison. Physics isn't easy for me because it's very precise. I don't grasp the concepts as easily as I did in courses related to biology either.

My ethics course on the other hand? I ace the papers we have to write because I mention a philosopher, use some of the technical language, and mention an ethical system. At first I was happy because I thought I was doing it right but then I realized I wasn't being questioned on right/wrong but whether I could apply anything from the chapter I'd just read. It's almsot too easy.

Now, I like philosophy a lot (I would major in it but I'm not sure where I would end up in this economy) but I have a whole new respect for people who get in to a science like physics.

[RedImperator]

Medicine probably scoops up a lot of the really smart people going to college, too. In the US, being a doctor means tons of prestige and, at least in the popular imagination, tons of money (in reality, it's also long, brutal hours and years of paying off giant student loans, but nobody mentions that on Grey's Anatomy).

[NecronLord]

I would imagine improving science and maths education in schools and their perception in popular culture at a younger age would be much more important than comparing it with the nebulously defined service sector and admin. When a lot of people start looking at going to University, they're simply not going to be an engineer because they don't have the necessary entry qualifications because maths bored them at school and they didn't take it at A-level.

[Commander 598]

Medicine probably scoops up a lot of the really smart people going to college, too. In the US, being a doctor means tons of prestige and, at least in the popular imagination, tons of money (in reality, it's also long, brutal hours and years of paying off giant student loans, but nobody mentions that on Grey's Anatomy).

I think they mentioned it on Scrubs!