Orion spacecraft prepares for first test flight.

[Borgholio]

Just like Apollo...only bigger. I can't wait to hear the results of the test next month.

[LaCroix]

I think I can already hear fanboys who think we need wings in space whine about how this thing is a step back from the shuttle...

[Purple]

When the title said Orion I was hoping it would be something cool. Turns out it's only another chemical rocket.

[HMS Sophia]

When the title said Orion I was hoping it would be something cool. Turns out it's only another chemical rocket.

Sweetheart, the US doesn't even have a crewed flight vehicle at the moment. In those terms, this is fucking awesome, whether it's launched on a chemical rocket or a thermonuclear engine.
Plus 'only another chemical rocket', have you seen what people are doing with these recently? SpaceX is being very cool...

On topic, yay for NASA crewed Apollo descendant. Should have built it in '75, but whatevs. At least we're finally getting it now.

[Borgholio]

And Orion has launched!

http://nypost.com/2014/12/05/mars-here- ... pacecraft/

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — NASA’s new Orion spacecraft streaked toward orbit Friday on a high-stakes test flight meant to usher in a new era of human exploration leading ultimately to Mars.

The unmanned orbital journey began with a sunrise liftoff witnessed by thousands of NASA guests eager to watch what the agency called “history in the making.”
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“The star of the day is Orion,” said NASA Administrator Charles Bolden Jr., back for the second morning in a row. He called it “Day One of the Mars era.”

Orion’s debut will be brief — just 4½ hours from launch to splashdown, with two orbits of Earth. But for the first time in 42 years, NASA is sending a spacecraft built for humans farther than a couple hundred miles from Earth. The previous time was the Apollo 17 moon shot.

And it’s NASA’s first new vehicle for space travel since the shuttle.

Friday’s flight test brings NASA “one step closer” to putting humans aboard Orion, Bolden said just before liftoff.

Sluggish rocket valves and wind halted Thursday’s launch attempt. Everything went NASA’s way Friday, and the Delta IV rocket blasted off with Orion as dawn broke.

NASA was aiming for a peak altitude of 3,600 miles on Orion’s second lap around the planet, in order to give the capsule the necessary momentum for a scorchingly high-speed re-entry over the Pacific. Engineers want to see how the heat shield — the largest of its kind ever built — holds up when Orion comes back through the atmosphere traveling 20,000 mph and enduring 4,000 degrees.
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NASA Administrator Charles Bolden Jr said the Orion launch is “…a big day for the world, for people who know and like space.

The atmosphere at Kennedy Space Center was reminiscent of the shuttle-flying days. After more than three years since the last shuttle flight, NASA reveled in all the attention.

Roads appeared to be less jammed before dawn for try two, and NASA was uncertain how many of the estimated 27,000 invited guests returned. Nonetheless, the press site remained jammed, the hotels packed and the excitement level high. “It’s a big day for the world, for people who know and like space,” Bolden said, observing the crowds.

The earliest that astronauts might fly on an Orion is 2021.

In Houston, NASA’s Mission Control took over the entire operation once Orion was aloft. The flight program was loaded into Orion’s computers well in advance, allowing the spacecraft to fly essentially on autopilot. Flight controllers — all shuttle veterans — could intervene in the event of an emergency breakdown.

Lockheed Martin Corp. already has begun work on a second Orion, and plans to eventually build a fleet of the capsules.Photo: Getty Images

And in the Pacific off the Mexican Baja coast, Navy ships waited for Orion’s return.

The spacecraft is rigged with 1,200 sensors to gauge everything from heat to vibration to radiation. At 11 feet tall with a 16.5-foot base, Orion is bigger than the old-time Apollo capsules and, obviously, more advanced.

NASA deliberately kept astronauts off this first Orion.

Managers want to test the riskiest parts of the spacecraft — the heat shield, parachutes, various jettisoning components — before committing to a crew. In addition, on-board computers were going to endure the high-radiation Van Allen belts; engineers wondered whether they might falter.

Lockheed Martin Corp. already has begun work on a second Orion, and plans to eventually build a fleet of the capsules. The earliest that astronauts might fly on an Orion is 2021. An asteroid redirected to lunar orbit is intended for the first stop in the 2020s, followed by Mars in the 2030s.

The company handled the $370 million test flight for NASA from the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, opting for the Delta IV rocket this time given its heft. It’s the most powerful unmanned rocket in the U.S. right now. The entire rocket and capsule, topped by a launch abort tower, stretched 242 feet and weighed 1.6 million pounds — an “incredible monster,” according to Bolden.

To push Orion farther out on future flights, NASA is developing a megarocket known as Space Launch System or SLS. The first Orion-SLS combo will fly around 2018, again without a crew to shake out the rocket.

NASA’s last trip beyond low-Earth orbit in a vessel built for people was the three-man Apollo 17 in December 1972. Orion will be capable of carrying four astronauts on long hauls and as many as six on three-week hikes.

Dozens of astronauts, present and past, gathered at Kennedy for the historic send-off. One of them — Bolden — now leads NASA.

He called Mars “the ultimate destination of this generation,” but said his three young granddaughters think otherwise, telling him, “Don’t get hung up on Mars because there are other places to go once we get there.”

[Me2005]

When the title said Orion I was hoping it would be something cool. Turns out it's only another chemical rocket.

Wait, you mean to tell me this isn't the Orion, from the Orion Project? Rats. Here I, too, thought we were doing something really noteworthy.

When the title said Orion I was hoping it would be something cool. Turns out it's only another chemical rocket.

Sweetheart, the US doesn't even have a crewed flight vehicle at the moment. In those terms, this is fucking awesome, whether it's launched on a chemical rocket or a thermonuclear engine.
Plus 'only another chemical rocket', have you seen what people are doing with these recently? SpaceX is being very cool...

Eh, color me less than enthused. Having a crewed space vehicle is important, but it seems that we could have had one ages ago if NASA's funding wasn't perpetually in jeopardy. Private companies building crewed vehicles is bigger news to me, and we're looking at 2-3 of those coming up IIRC.

[Purple]

Eh, color me less than enthused. Having a crewed space vehicle is important, but it seems that we could have had one ages ago if NASA's funding wasn't perpetually in jeopardy. Private companies building crewed vehicles is bigger news to me, and we're looking at 2-3 of those coming up IIRC.

I wasn't going to be the first to say this but yea. Basically this. Placing a man in space was a big deal back before I was born. It was cool and new and all star treky sending man where no man had gone before. But decades later it's just one of the things we did, can do and thus have no real reason to care about any more. We placed a man on the moon, and than we did it like 12 more times. We sent a man into space. And than we repeated that like god knows how much. We've put up a hundred million satellites to collect dust and make our orbit look like an overcrowded parking lot. Overall, we just did it all. So unless we send a man to Jupiter or discover FTL or something space has pretty much outlived it's novelty and coolness.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Wow, your mind must be a stunningly boring and unimaginative place to live.

This is awesome news, we're finally doing stuff again. Even better, according to NASA's Facebook page the craft splashed down successfully, so good news all round.

[Simon_Jester]

Eh, color me less than enthused. Having a crewed space vehicle is important, but it seems that we could have had one ages ago if NASA's funding wasn't perpetually in jeopardy. Private companies building crewed vehicles is bigger news to me, and we're looking at 2-3 of those coming up IIRC.

I wasn't going to be the first to say this but yea. Basically this. Placing a man in space was a big deal back before I was born. It was cool and new and all star treky sending man where no man had gone before. But decades later it's just one of the things we did, can do and thus have no real reason to care about any more. We placed a man on the moon, and than we did it like 12 more times. We sent a man into space. And than we repeated that like god knows how much. We've put up a hundred million satellites to collect dust and make our orbit look like an overcrowded parking lot. Overall, we just did it all. So unless we send a man to Jupiter or discover FTL or something space has pretty much outlived it's novelty and coolness.

Wow, your mind must be a stunningly boring and unimaginative place to live...

Could've told you that in 2011, man.

Anyway, the fact that we have viable crew vehicles that even CAN do things that were historically never possible is, yes, progress. Sure, it's long-delayed progress, progress we could have had in the '80s, but it's there.

[Borgholio]

Looks like the Orion capsule splashed down in the Pacific after a successful test flight. A good start.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/tech/inno ... index.html

[Eternal_Freedom]

To expand on my earlier point: just because we've done something incredible before doesn't make it any less awesome that we're doing it again. We've been driving cars for, what 120 odd years now? People still get excited over another new Ferrari. We've been building planes since 1903, we still get excited by a new fighter jet, or the 787, or the A380. We've had games consoles for decades, and look how many people lost their shit over the PS4.

Doing something that has already been done is still cool. Hell, Purple, you've got the same annoying attitude as the fuckers who cancelled all the cool plans NASA had immediately after Apollo, "oh we've done it already, ho hum, move on."

[Purple]

To expand on my earlier point: just because we've done something incredible before doesn't make it any less awesome that we're doing it again.

Well yes, it kind of does. Incredible means quite literally: "difficult or impossible to believe". Once we have done something it's no longer either of those. It can also be used to refer to as: " extremely good, great, or large" which again once we have done something as many times as we have sent stuff to space is no longer really true.1

We've been driving cars for, what 120 odd years now? People still get excited over another new Ferrari. We've been building planes since 1903, we still get excited by a new fighter jet, or the 787, or the A380. We've had games consoles for decades, and look how many people lost their shit over the PS4.

And your choice of examples underlines my point. In order for something to get our attention in a field that has been so greatly exploited it has to be beyond what we thought was possible, or at least reasonable. That's why the 787, PS4 and stuff like that get attention but the million minor aircraft designs for regional jet liners and knockoff consoles from Hong Kong don't even make an appearance on yahoo news.

So in order for this to matter to anyone but space enthusiasts (and don't get me wrong. I have nothing against these people.) it needs to be a lot more grand than just another space capsule with people in it.

Doing something that has already been done is still cool. Hell, Purple, you've got the same annoying attitude as the fuckers who cancelled all the cool plans NASA had immediately after Apollo, "oh we've done it already, ho hum, move on."

Well let's be honest. There is really not much NASA could do within reasonable funding to top Apollo. And doing something incredible by definition requires them to.
But I don't support canceling anything. These things have a purpose and all that even if I do not care for them. So I would no more cancel this thing than I would cancel say all aircraft flights because we already did those. I just personally don't see anything grand about it. It's become just another boring regular thing we humans do.

[Eternal_Freedom]

If you really don't care why bother posting to say anything at all, except to be a twat?

You point about the 787 and so on doesn't matter, because in space travel there are no small minor designs. Everything is something significant.

[Purple]

If you really don't care why bother posting to say anything at all, except to be a twat?

Because this is a discussion thread about the topic of the space launch. So I have as much right to post my opinion as you do yours. And if you don't like what I am saying you are free to attempt and make an intellectual argument to try and change my mind or alternatively STFU. But you should know this already given the forum we are on.

You point about the 787 and so on doesn't matter, because in space travel there are no small minor designs. Everything is something significant.

Only from a space travel perspective. Everything in regard to space travel is significant when it comes to space travel. But not everything is significant to the rest of existence. Otherwise we'd be cheering every time someone sends up a satellite.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I do cheer every time we send up a satellite, but that's beside the point. From a spaceflight perspective, anything like this (a new manned capsule) is a rare enough event that anything is significant. Even on a general technological perspective, it's significant, because it's a capability the US hasn't had since the shuttle was retired. So this is not just "another capsule design" it's "the first new spacecraft design the US has tested since the 80's." That's a big deal.

[Purple]

I do cheer every time we send up a satellite, but that's beside the point.

No, that is the point. You and many like you are spaceflight enthusiasts. And I can respect that. But you have to understand that once we leave your perspective and enter the rest of the world a lot of things you get excited about no longer count as cool. Just like a lot of things I like and think are cool really aren't to the average person who does not care about my interests.

From a spaceflight perspective, anything like this (a new manned capsule) is a rare enough event that anything is significant.

This I agree with. But than we get to the next part.

Even on a general technological perspective, it's significant, because it's a capability the US hasn't had since the shuttle was retired. So this is not just "another capsule design" it's "the first new spacecraft design the US has tested since the 80's." That's a big deal.

And that's not really exciting. Now a days everyone and their mother has sent people to space. The Russians, Americans, Chinese, hell I think the Indians did it as well. So america reclaiming its place among spacecraft designers is really not that exciting because ultimately it's just a demonstration that they can still do what they already did and everyone else is doing. So unless you find spaceflight to be exciting already there is nothing inherently exciting to make this special.

[Eternal_Freedom]

America, Russia and China is not "everyone and their mothers" now is it? Three nations out of, what, 180 odd? One in sixty. Please try and be less absurd with your analogies.

Also "everyone else" is not launching manned missions into orbit. Russia and China are, and that's it. America wil once again be able to launch people into orbit themselves. They won't have to send astronauts to the ISS aboard Russian Soyuz capsules. That is significant.

[jwl]

Well let's be honest. There is really not much NASA could do within reasonable funding to top Apollo. And doing something incredible by definition requires them to.
But I don't support canceling anything. These things have a purpose and all that even if I do not care for them. So I would no more cancel this thing than I would cancel say all aircraft flights because we already did those. I just personally don't see anything grand about it. It's become just another boring regular thing we humans do.

Restricting myself just to manned stuff, I'd say the ISS tops Apollo by a good amount. The difference with the ISS, it it happened slowly, so it gave people the chance to get used to it. It also didn't get cancelled.

Count me disappointed this isn't the actual Orion project too though, although treaties now mean the thing is pretty much impossible, regardless of the advancement of tech.

[Simon_Jester]

Nuclear pulse propulsion was always rather dubious; there were a lot of "we'll improvise this unsolved technical problem" bits. Plus the fact that a massive 10000 tons to LEO launcher like Orion is really useless for anything but launching gigantic orbiting monster stuff like an orbital doomfortress or an interplanetary colony ship; and for something like that the surplus weight penalty of the nuclear pulse drive is a serious drag on performance, while on-orbit assembly is quite desirable.

[SpottedKitty]

Now a days everyone and their mother has sent people to space. The Russians, Americans, Chinese, hell I think the Indians did it as well.

You've missed something. Yes, lots of countries have "sent people to space" — but they've bought seats on Russian or (before the Shuttle was retired) American launchers to do it. (I think all the Chinese manned launches so far have been all-Chinese-national crews.) Until the Chinese have a reason to increase their launch rate, or the Americans get round to man-rating something that'll fly, manned spaceflight is a one-horse race... and its name is Сою́з.

[HMS Sophia]

Well let's be honest. There is really not much NASA could do within reasonable funding to top Apollo. And doing something incredible by definition requires them to.

Well... And I only choose to bring this up again because I've been doing loads of research recently into the history of spaceflight... Actually there were several relatively low cost solutions to bring about incredible things within a reasonable budget. The Apollo Applications program was intended to, amongst other things, establish a permanent human presence in both LEO and on the moon's surface, beginning with extended Lunar stays in the early 1970's of 60-180 days.
I say relatively low cost, it was hellishly expensive, but it was of similar cost to the development of the partially reusable Space Transport System (what eventually became the space shuttle). And you know what? The cost per pound to orbit of the STS vs. the Saturn V is very similar. The Saturn costs significantly more, but it also lifts a stupidly large payload...

Equally, there were proposals for flying Gemini missions with redesigned capsules like Big Gemini or Blue Gemini (a USAF project) to do similar things which would have been relatively low cost space-flight.

As a side note, India is lifting it's first test article of a crewed capsule later this month or early next year. India has yet to fly indigenously.

[SpottedKitty]

And you know what? The cost per pound to orbit of the STS vs. the Saturn V is very similar. The Saturn costs significantly more, but it also lifts a stupidly large payload...

<nod> Something a lot of people forget; the Saturn V third stage could be considered payload. Lunar missions used the S-IVB, the stage wasn't separated until after TLI. And Skylab was unpowered. Just like the Saturn I, Saturn V was essentially a TSTO rocket, except this one could carry another rocket — a pretty big one — into orbit.

A pity they stopped building them. Am I right in remembering that one of the display "lawn ornaments" was actual flight hardware? <sigh>

[Iroscato]

Purple, try to think of it as a whole new era for spaceflight, one that's steadily gathering momentum with each passing month. True, the USA is pretty much back to where it was in the 60's, but they've got to get back to it somehow, and the tried and tested method is a good place to start. And there's plenty of other exciting stuff happening in the industry right now. The most powerful and advanced launch system ever, the SLS, is greenlit and under construction. Other nations are flexing their muscle, which means in a few years time there's gonna be a lot of competition between the major players. We also just landed a goddamn probe on a goddamn comet for the first time in history.
Space tourism is starting to emerge, and private spaceflight is coming along wonderfully with SpaceX and Boeing at the forefront. And the very fact that the US is throwing its hat back into the ring is significant in itself, considering the past few decades of apathy it's had toward spaceflight. These are good times we live in, and I for one cannot wait to see how the next couple of decades will pan out for space exploration.

[Guardsman Bass]

The problem is that we're not really in that era for the manned program. SLS isn't going to be ready until after 2021, and even then it's not going anywhere except up-and-down to ISS unless NASA gets the funding to develop Blocks IB and II (never mind the costs of an actual mission, which they also haven't allocated any serious money or time towards). I'm skeptical that any real mission beyond LEO will be funded at all beyond just studies until after ISS burns up in the mid-to-late-2020s, and by then you're so far out that we have no idea what the political climate will be like for allocating NASA's funding in the direction of bigger missions. I'm going to guess it's not going to be much more supportive than it is now.

Still, you're right that it's an exciting time for space exploration. I'm pretty happy with the robotic programs, albeit disappointed that there's no "flagship"-class missions on the horizon except for that Curiosity clone they'll be landing on Mars in a couple of years. Commercial Crew is coming along nicely as well.

[K. A. Pital]

Still, you're right that it's an exciting time for space exploration. I'm pretty happy with the robotic programs, albeit disappointed that there's no "flagship"-class missions on the horizon except for that Curiosity clone they'll be landing on Mars in a couple of years. Commercial Crew is coming along nicely as well.

I would say that the potential for Asian economies like China and India becoming much, much bigger than the US means good things for unmanned and manned space exploration alike.