Question to the Athiests among us here.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-09 05:18pm

What is the worst example of intollerance in the real world (online does not count) you have faced because of your being an Athiest? I don't mean where you here someone say "They ought to lock up all Atheists", but actual reactions you have had because people or groups of people KNOW you are an Atheist. How often do you get such reactions, or similar reactions?

The reason why I ask is because I am pondering whether or not I should start telling people and showing people my lack of faith, the fact I am an Athiest. So far only my close family, friends, and my parents minister (who is actually a very cool guy and very tollerant) know, and for the most part they are tollerant. Then again they are tollerant because they know who I am, and that its possible to be good without being religous.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2002-09-09 05:37pm

1st year university, shortly after frosh week with some chick I'd hooked up with. We'd sorta gotten to know each other and were close to getting in bed, that is till she found out I was an atheist. At which point she said, and I quote "I'm not sleeping with you since you're not Christian and don't believe in god". Sure, whatever, no big loss as there were only 3000 other hot chicks on campus that I could go after. My response was something like "sure, whatever, I guess I won't be seeing you then huh?" and then I kicked her out of my room before she got a chance to spaz out.

As far as being an atheist goes I don't go around flaunting it, nor do I deny and hide it. It's just a part of me. I let other people figure out for themselves where I stand.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-09-09 05:44pm

STUPIDITY!!
Next time tell her THE DAY AFTER!!! No politics before bed.

Seriously, it depends greatly on where you live. I never knew anyone who gave a damn about my beliefs, and I don't feel the need to explain them. Of course, some times there are idiots, but those just don't deserve attention. Stick with your friends

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-09-09 05:59pm

Well some idiots say that im stupid tp believe in evolution saying "How did we evolve from gorillas? Why aren't we hairy" or " If evolution was true why aren't monkeys evolving into humans"

As i said idiots.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-09-09 06:09pm

I don't think I've ever been discriminated against by any single person for being an atheist. The government on the other hand...

My basic policy is that if someone asks me or the subject comes up, I tell them. Otherwise, religious beliefs are kept as strictly personal.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-09-09 06:47pm

Just to start, having to do manual labor at Field Training because as an athiest, I don't go to church on Sunday mornings. I have more.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-09 06:51pm

Does the combination of racial and religious bigotry expressed by my in-laws count? If not, then the minister who strung us along until the last minute and then cancelled our wedding on us with only a few weeks to go (leaving us high and dry, forced to get a new minister and a new chapel on short notice), citing my lack of faith as the reason he would not conduct our wedding (thanks for telling us ahead of time).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-09 06:52pm

(shakes head in disgust) When it comes to matters of the heart, intollerance can be the most hurtful at such times. Yeah, those incidents count, unfortanetly.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-09 07:43pm

Hmm I've had my testmoney throw out in one court case before in the deep south not a problem as I was not the only one but then since the Judge had a Honk if you love Jesus sticker on his beamer and another one about jesus I don't think its not that obvesious(Oh and FYI it was a assault case at a rather large party, me being the few sober sane people there with a chrimial record(Well at THAT point in time

) you think the Judge might be more incileded to belive the two sober guys verises the eight drunk ones well.. ok guess not

That and some punks in high school long ago trying to beat me up for being an athiest

Note the try part

I take self defense very seriously and it was only 3:1 thier mistake considering the broken collar bone I gave one and two fingers and a wrist to the other(The third ran before I could get him though)

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-09-09 07:44pm

I was called a servant of the dark one, a whore of satan (I'm male btw), corruptor of the innocent and various other great lines during a tirade from a Christian fundie.

OK, it will make more sense when I give you the context. I'm trying to get to the library because I had an assignment to work on and needed some reference material. It is near to closing time. Just outside the library I get accosted by a Fundie offering me "informative literature". I politely turn it down. Now, this Fundie was one of the new breed, the middle-aged woman who has her roughly 8 and 10 year old kids with her. I go to walk away, she runs around in front of me and offers it again. I tell her "I'm not goddamn interested." She responds with "How dare you take THE LORDS [with that much emphasis] name in vain you disgusting young man. You must visit our church to pay penance." At this point I kind of lost it with her and yelled something along the lines of "Shut the fuck up and leave me alone you stupid bitch." She looked rather shocked and one of the kiddies started crying. I took this opportunity to walk away. Behind all I could hear was a string of the aforementioned abuse. I made it to the library just in time.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-09-09 07:51pm

Mr Bean wrote:That and some punks in high school long ago trying to beat me up for being an athiest

In my school the probabillity of getting beaten up was higher if you confessed to be an active christian. I don't quite understand where this differences come from.

Shut the fuck up and leave me alone you stupid bitch

Bet that was fun.

Just love trashing idiots

GoneCrazy · Post by **GoneCrazy** » 2002-09-09 08:12pm

i don't talk very much (whenever i type things i sound stupid enough its worse when im talking) so mainly only my parents, brothers, and i think only one kid at school (religious kid just had to debate him a bit though im not very good at debating unles im on the internet and have access to reference materials, i don't read the bible much so its kinda hard to refute specific passages without a bit of research) know im an atheist.

i just like to make fun of all the dumb christians in my head, haven't got a clue what they think. i should talk more often.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-09 08:22pm

Lets see I was disowned by my father(big loss huh?

)

I have never been discriminated against because I am an Atheist.

I live in fear for other reasons that I am sure you are all aware of.

GoneCrazy · Post by **GoneCrazy** » 2002-09-09 08:47pm

i worship you Alyrium Denryle harbinger of my doom.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-09 08:57pm

I told my parents, they claim to be neutral on the subject, but then again my sister can gab on at them about God all she wants but I apparentley should remain silent on my views. A slight whiff of hypocrisy there..
Aside from that, a few of my friends know, I've never really recieved many harsh objections, but I do tend to stay away from the loonies if I can help it... apart from those damn Jehovas Witnesses that keep bothering me, but I can't tell them I'm an Atheist, 'cause then they'll never stop

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-09 08:58pm

My fiancee's parents weren't very happy with me, at first, but once I started to get to know them they lightened up. Now they really don't care, anymore, as long as Kate keeps going to church every week. I'm not even sure they think I'm going to hell for not being a Christian!

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-09-09 09:36pm

Master of Ossus wrote:My fiancee's parents weren't very happy with me, at first, but once I started to get to know them they lightened up. Now they really don't care, anymore, as long as Kate keeps going to church every week. I'm not even sure they think I'm going to hell for not being a Christian!

Not bible readers, then. According to the good book, every non-believer goes to Hell. Every last motherfucking one of us, be it Ghandi, Buddha, or Josef Stalin.

The interesting thing about this is that back when the Old Testament was written, only Jews went to heaven, and they've never made any real effort in converting others. What this amounted to was the Jews saying that 95% of the World's population was going to burn in Hell forever and that they weren't even worth trying to save.

One can really marvel at the mercy of the Christians, because they had it in their infinite patience to convert others and allow more than just a tiny corner of the world to escape the fires of hell.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-09 10:06pm

Actually, the Jewish Hell is VERY different from the Christian one. To the Jews in the original context of the word, Hell is not necessarily a bad place. It involves no fire or torture or anything like that. Instead, it is best described as being a place where people sleep for all eternity, instead of being tormented as in the Christian version.

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-09-09 10:17pm

Never any real discrimination, except for the usual knee-jerk "you're going to hell" from the local fundies. parents could care less, friends don't care, Grandparants don't know but would likely freak out.

And then there is the gov't, run by fundies like Asshcroft and Dumbya.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-09-09 10:55pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Actually, the Jewish Hell is VERY different from the Christian one. To the Jews in the original context of the word, Hell is not necessarily a bad place. It involves no fire or torture or anything like that. Instead, it is best described as being a place where people sleep for all eternity, instead of being tormented as in the Christian version.

That's not so bad. I always thought the Old Testament Hebrew Yahweh was a bigger asshole than the New Testament one, but I guess I was mistaken. I'd rather not believe in the Jewish God than not believe in the Christian God.

But I'll still stick to not believing in the Hindu pantheon. If I turn out to be wrong, what's my punishment for not believing in them? Nothing! I just come right back, and I'm fairly sure I've got positive karma so I'll just move up the societal ladder. Hoorah for me.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-09-09 11:06pm

GoneCrazy wrote:i worship you Alyrium Denryle harbinger of my doom.

Why thank you!

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-09-10 02:15am

The devil, and hell, in the Christian sense does not exist. At least according to a Compass special on christianity, it's a show in Australia that takles social and religious questions prevalent in todays society. Any way, the Christian idea of hell and the devil was conspiquesly absent for a long time, till like much later (around the Dark Ages), and if you push the Churches hard enough, one author bugged the Catholic church for close to a decade, they eventually admit to the inexistance of Satan.

The Jewish concept of Hell, as explained to me by a Rabbi (5 years ago for year 12 Eglish/History we did the haulacost, and went to an excursion to a synagogue and the Jewish museum in Melbourne), is a place spent after death in the absence of God. And of course Judasims concept of Lucifer, once again as I was explained, is an angel in God's service who tries to tempt us away from God in order to prove ourselves in front of God.

PS I know my spelling is bad but hey.

Kahlis · Post by **Kahlis** » 2002-09-10 03:36am

Of course, in the same vein..

My faith in Christ has resulted in personal defamation and many similar things that you describe have occurred to you, merely for the sake of being a Christian.

Forgive me. The following is a bit of a reaction to the inaccurate and unjustified attitute that many of you have suffered from and then some turned around and perpetrated.

Any way, the Christian idea of hell and the devil was conspiquesly absent for a long time

Err..

"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

- Matthew 5:22

"And if your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into hell.."

- Mark 9:47

Put on the full armor of God, that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

- Ephesians 6:11

Shall I continue? The factual inaccuracy of your statements aside, the concept of death to sin was well immersed in Jewish culture as a result of the Mosaic Law. This death to sin was almost universally understood as damnation, and thus whenever Jesus spoke of true life he spoke of deliverance from said hell. The concept of hell and the Devil is carried inherently throughout the Gospels and the remainder of the New Testament. Failure to see this and by it subsequently rationalizing a preexisting viewpoint is nonsense.

And of course Judasims concept of Lucifer, once again as I was explained, is an angel in God's service who tries to tempt us away from God in order to prove ourselves in front of God.

Nonsense. It is clear from Job that Satan was well outside the purpose of serving God and in fact is nearly diametrically opposite to Him. Your Rabbi has an interesting policy on ignoring the Scripture that defines his profession.

The interesting thing about this is that back when the Old Testament was written, only Jews went to heaven

Based upon?

Likely you refer to salvation by the Mosaic Law within Jewish culture?
In response:
1. Refer to example of justification by faith via Abraham [emphasis emphasis emphasis]
2. It was practically impossible to be saved via the Mosiac Law and still is. We have no hope of living up to it, and that was part of the point..

That and some punks in high school long ago trying to beat me up for being an athiest

That's utterly ridiculous [on their part]. Simply makes me shudder..

What we see so often in any organized religion or set of beliefs (atheism included) is a corresponding level of "moral righteousness." In other words, superiority complexes developing from the belief that the person is "more righteous" than those not subscribing to that belief for that very reason. In Christianity, this is doubly horrible, as this was perhaps the most noted sin pointed out by Jesus.. the same of the tradition of the Pharisees: hypocrisy and spiritual arrogance in the highest degree.

Alas.. 'night all.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-10 09:14am

Shall I continue? The factual inaccuracy of your statements aside, the concept of death to sin was well immersed in Jewish culture as a result of the Mosaic Law. This death to sin was almost universally understood as damnation, and thus whenever Jesus spoke of true life he spoke of deliverance from said hell. The concept of hell and the Devil is carried inherently throughout the Gospels and the remainder of the New Testament. Failure to see this and by it subsequently rationalizing a preexisting viewpoint is nonsense.

No need or do I need to point out the Jewish Good book only contains the first four books of the Bible? Not Mark, Not Mathew not anything BUT those first four books?
Everything after that was Christian and do I need to remind you of the Offical Jewish stance on Jesus?
There where five things the Messiash was supposed to do, Thats what God said, Jesus did not do them he is not the Messiah

Thats there offical stance there so quoting from Jesus is not accorate when refering to Jews

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-10 09:44am

Kahlis wrote:My faith in Christ has resulted in personal defamation and many similar things that you describe have occurred to you, merely for the sake of being a Christian.

Have you ever tried publicly declaring an unpopular faith (or lack thereof) like Satanism or atheism? You might find it's harder to draw sympathy when you're on the other side of the fence. My wife was Christian; the only Christians who get verbally abused are the ones who are obnoxious about it, ie- try to steer conversations toward their religion at every opportunity, etc.

What we see so often in any organized religion or set of beliefs (atheism included) is a corresponding level of "moral righteousness." In other words, superiority complexes developing from the belief that the person is "more righteous" than those not subscribing to that belief for that very reason. In Christianity, this is doubly horrible, as this was perhaps the most noted sin pointed out by Jesus.. the same of the tradition of the Pharisees: hypocrisy and spiritual arrogance in the highest degree.

Actually, as much as you might like to believe that this is universal to all religions, I don't think so. In my experience, that problem is largely a Judeo-Christian-Islamic situation. Buddhists, for example, have their beliefs but I've never had a Buddhist try and judge me for not sharing them, nor are there any Buddhists actively lobbying to write their beliefs into law. Similarly, atheists tend to excoriate Christianity only to implode the myth about Christians necessarily being morally superior; atheism does not claim any sort of moral superiority since atheism has nothing to say about morality one way or another; atheism only claims superior logic.

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