Should we restrict parenting? (Spin off from Fucking Vegans)

[Gandalf]

This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while, should there be a way to license people's rights to have children or the such, you know, make them pass competency exams or IQ tests or something along those lines?

[Frank Hipper]

Some sort of education and limits wouldn't be a bad idea by a long shot, but can you imagine the uproar it would cause? The Catholic hierarchy would go apeshit!

[Darth Wong]

The problem is enforcement of these limits. What are we going to do? Forced abortions? Chastity belts? Sterilization of the unworthy? Eugenics programs?

[Hethrir]

This reminds me of Gattaca.

[TrailerParkJawa]

It sounds great but is unenforceable. What makes for a good parent? How do you define what level of intelligence is needed?

I know parents that are not all that smart but love their kids with all their heart. Try to set a good example and sacrifice for them. I have a friend who's dad is very smart but otherwise very disfunctional.

I know how you feel though, those parents just want to make you scream.

[weemadando]

I think at the very least all parents should be put through a compulsory education program in the months leading up to the birth, followed by occassional inspection by a government agency.

It doesn't matter whether or not they are smart, dumb, christian, atheist, poor or rich, just as long as the baby is not endangered in any way by the actions (or lack thereof) of the parents or guardians.

[Darth Wong]

Yeah, but what do you do if they fail the class? When Rebecca and I were in pre-natal classes before the birth of our first child, we had fucking people in class who got up and ARGUED with a guest pediatrician who was brought in to speak.

Why? Because he told them that a pregnant mother should not smoke cigarettes. These people became heated and started yelling at the poor guy! What drives me crazy is knowing that they went ahead and had the kid; he'll be smoking by the time he's 8.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I think at the very least all parents should be put through a compulsory education program in the months leading up to the birth, followed by occassional inspection by a government agency.

It doesn't matter whether or not they are smart, dumb, christian, atheist, poor or rich, just as long as the baby is not endangered in any way by the actions (or lack thereof) of the parents or guardians.

If your parents didnt give you the the basics on how to be a halfway decent parent, a class taken in adulthood isnt going to do much good in my opinion.

[Frank Hipper]

The problem is enforcement of these limits. What are we going to do? Forced abortions? Chastity belts? Sterilization of the unworthy? Eugenics programs?

Precisely.
This is an incredibly sticky idea, even though we have ALL become aquainted with situations that would seem to call for restrictions of some sort. You just can't control people's lives to this extent and even pretend to be a free society.

[weemadando]

I think at the very least all parents should be put through a compulsory education program in the months leading up to the birth, followed by occassional inspection by a government agency.

It doesn't matter whether or not they are smart, dumb, christian, atheist, poor or rich, just as long as the baby is not endangered in any way by the actions (or lack thereof) of the parents or guardians.

If your parents didnt give you the the basics on how to be a halfway decent parent, a class taken in adulthood isnt going to do much good in my opinion.

It doesn't have to be a class in the basics of parenthood, though it would contain them, it wouldn't be a test either, merely a way of making sure that ALL parents understand just how these goddamn things work so we don't get tragedies like with those stupid fucking vegans. Like I said, I don't want to restrict parenthood to an elite, merely make sure that all children are given a goddamn chance.

[weemadando]

Yeah, but what do you do if they fail the class? When Rebecca and I were in pre-natal classes before the birth of our first child, we had fucking people in class who got up and ARGUED with a guest pediatrician who was brought in to speak.

Why? Because he told them that a pregnant mother should not smoke cigarettes. These people became heated and started yelling at the poor guy! What drives me crazy is knowing that they went ahead and had the kid; he'll be smoking by the time he's 8.

Aaaargh! I said a class, not tests. Its once the child is born that the test starts and its 100% practical... Thats why I think that ALL parents should be monitored sporadically by a government controlled group. This could be tied into ongoing healthcare for the child, say appointments monthly or bi-monthly to check on the childs progress etc.

[Crayz9000]

Er... what do you do when you've got (bleeding heart insert-name-here) nutjobs as social workers?

[Gandalf]

Er... what do you do when you've got (bleeding heart insert-name-here) nutjobs as social workers?

Fire them, get better ones.

Or make them answerable to a tribunal, though at this point it gets VERY bureaucratic.

[UltraViolence83]

Face it, people. To live in a free society where you can raise your kid without Big Brother looking down on you, you're gonna have to keep pretty loose reigns on what parents are allowed to do. That means that there's going to be occasional reports of misconduct and neglect/abuse.






EDIT: Partial sentence removal.

[Peregrin Toker]

The problem is enforcement of these limits. What are we going to do? Forced abortions? Chastity belts? Sterilization of the unworthy? Eugenics programs?

Pardon me, but isn't this a slippery slope fallacy?

[Keevan_Colton]

The problem is enforcement of these limits. What are we going to do? Forced abortions? Chastity belts? Sterilization of the unworthy? Eugenics programs?

Pardon me, but isn't this a slippery slope fallacy?

No, its an explotation of how you could do this....after all, telling people and making people are two different things

[BrYaN19kc]

Some sort of education and limits wouldn't be a bad idea by a long shot, but can you imagine the uproar it would cause? The Catholic hierarchy would go apeshit!

In our area there are such classes which are funded by the state. The problem is that parents are not required to attend such classes until after the damage is done.

I really think that perhaps under certain circumstances (such as teen pregnancy) both parents should be required - they could even earn college credit as an incentive.

[Drooling Iguana]

The problem is that the family unit is essentially a dictatorship. Sometimes you have benevolent dictators, sometimes you have tyrants. I think that the solution is to give the kids the ability to escape these dictatorships if they're tyrannical, say by giving them the option to leave their parents and move to a government-funded boarding school.

[RogueIce]

The problem is that the family unit is essentially a dictatorship. Sometimes you have benevolent dictators, sometimes you have tyrants. I think that the solution is to give the kids the ability to escape these dictatorships if they're tyrannical, say by giving them the option to leave their parents and move to a government-funded boarding school.

Yeah, but then you just know some kids are gonna abuse that the first time their parents say no to something.

Or try to, anyway. Kinda like some have tried with HRS/DCF/whatever you call your social workers.

[Ignorant_Boy]

I don't mean to stir anything up, but isn't this something like the idea Muhammad came up with to force all parents to have to be able to provide for their children? I realize that he said provide and here the argument is testing but both infringe on the parents having children.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while, should there be a way to license people's rights to have children or the such, you know, make them pass competency exams or IQ tests or something along those lines?

It's one of those "well, it's a good idea . . . on paper" sorts of things. I'm all for forcing prospective parents to undergo competency testing or take classes. Except enforcement would be an absolute nightmare. The only way you could possibly do it is to continually evaluate people from the time they entered school to about the time they graduate high school. If the factors in their lives repeatedly indicate that they'd make terrible parents, then sterilize 'em, plain and simple.

Except, the problem with that is some people develop fucked-up mentalities well after high school, thus slipping through the cracks, and some people reform and become better than their environment, thus being unfairly deprived of the privilege of procreation.

And eventually, unless we manage our food supply and agriculture better, or the planet's population levels off on it's own, procreation will eventually have to stop being a "right" and become a "privilege," but that's an entirely different topic altogether.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

The problem is enforcement of these limits. What are we going to do? Forced abortions? Chastity belts? Sterilization of the unworthy? Eugenics programs?

Pardon me, but isn't this a slippery slope fallacy?

It's actually a valid question. Such a broad, sweeping program would be a nightmare to enforce. How would you go about keeping those who would be bad parents from ever having the chance to become parents?

[FaxModem1]

GrandmasterTerwynn wrote:

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
The problem is enforcement of these limits. What are we going to do? Forced abortions? Chastity belts? Sterilization of the unworthy? Eugenics programs?


Pardon me, but isn't this a slippery slope fallacy?


It's actually a valid question. Such a broad, sweeping program would be a nightmare to enforce. How would you go about keeping those who would be bad parents from ever having the chance to become parents?

neuter them I guess

[TrailerParkJawa]

What if instead of restricting parenting to certain people, we ban having children before a certain age. Say 22. This would young, unready parents, from having kids they cant handle or afford. Of course we would have to trample on human rights to accomplish this. All girls entering high school would have to get mandatory norplant or something like that. Anyone having a kid before age 22 would deported to Canada or Mexico or something. Again, this would never happen, and I dont support it, but I think it would cut down on a lot of problems related to teen age pregnancy.

[Sea Skimmer]

This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while, should there be a way to license people's rights to have children or the such, you know, make them pass competency exams or IQ tests or something along those lines?

Not the worst idea, however its implementation is quite impossible, at least without creating a highly elitist society.