There's a film titled Max which is showing at the Toronto film festival that is supposed to deal with the development of Hitler. It has been rather controversial because a lot of people seem to be more comfortable seeing Hitler only as a monster and not as a human being.
Personally I think writing him off as a monster lets the rest of us off the hook.
It's like thinking he was only a fluke and no other human being could ever do stuff like that, or think those thngs ..
Riiight, Sure no one else killed tons of people for a reason
How about the sitting Pope during the First Cursade?
How about Mao!(He killed tons more than Hitler did)
Hitler was by no means a fluke
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
He was human. Just a pathetic racist piece of shit who got extremelly lucky. There are many Hitler alikes around, it's just that nobody's giving them power (for the moment).
And I must disagree. Mao, Estaline killed millions of people, but not randomly. They killed possible opponents, relocatted resources. Hitler tried (and almost suceeded) in whiping out an entire race. The cruzades come close, though. But those were other days, they didn't result in the killing of millions of innocents as a main goal (they wanted territory and riches) and the arabs fought back.
Hitler was simply another in a long progression of political leaders that were reposnsible for the death of millions...hell, STALIN killed MORE of his own people than Hitler killed Jews, Germans or other folks. Hitler just happened to have a really good publicist and made for a more gripping villain than Stalin ever could...or Pol Pot or anyone else in that vein.
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And I must disagree. Mao, Estaline killed millions of people, but not randomly. They killed possible opponents, relocatted resources. Hitler tried (and almost suceeded) in whiping out an entire race. The cruzades come close, though. But those were other days, they didn't result in the killing of millions of innocents as a main goal (they wanted territory and riches) and the arabs fought back
similar to my view, I feel mao and Stalin killed more people but as a means to a end,as opposed to Hitler and Tojo's killing of people as an end in itself, the Nazi used trains to transport jews even as they were needed to supply the armies as late as 1945.
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"-Joseph Stalin
"No plan survives contact with the enemy"-Helmuth Von Moltke
"Women prefer stories about one person dying slowly. Men prefer stories of many people dying quickly."-Niles from Frasier.
Hitler was just a human asshole like so many others out there. He was no monster. i think that people just want to think that because it makes it easier for them to explain what he did. But you don´t need a monster to do such things.
That brings me to a story I always wanted to share. it might be funny at first, but really frightened me when I thought about it.
Back in the 1950´s the first small neo-nazi meeting happend in berlin-wannsee. It was small but so close after the war it was of course a highly political thing. The meeting consisted of a few dozen freaks screaming heil-hitler, chanting nazi-paroles and singing the deutschland-song. But what was really hilarous was that in the years that followed it turned out that exactly one (1) real neo-nazi was present. All the others were undercover agents of dozens of different agencys from over a dozen nations, none of them being aware of the others. They all just played along. Of course this was good for some laughs at the time, but i find it quite frightening indeed. There were dozens of guys doing nazi stuff without believing in it. Now what if someone had proposed to actualy go and find some jews to beat up or set fire on a synagoge. Maybe one of the agents trying to get into the upper ranks of the organisation while it was still forming. They would all have played along, not to blow their cover. i think it shows that you don´t need believers to start such mayhem. And while the NSDAP surely hat their share of freaks who truly believed in the idiology I think most of them were simply oppoturnists, especialy in the top layer.
hitler wasn't too bad. he published a book telling what he was gonna do. its not his fault the majority ot the world were fools and didn't try to assasinate him before he started the really big killings. he hauled people on trains, they got to their destination, they undressed, they went in showers, they got gassed, they died in minutes. that's not nearly as bad as stalin starving his peasants, the black death (which was a plague not really a guy killing people), or the inquisition where they'd kill just bout anybody who didn't totally believe in the bible.
Give me the inquisition any time. At least they wouldn't kill me if I kept my mouth shut.
And the black plague was rather democratic. Killed everybody, rich, poor, christians, arabs and jews. And didn't do it on purpose. I choose it as well.
And there's a difference between letting people starve and actively gas them..
And a difference between killing someone because of political views and killing only people of a race because of racist hatred. I think the second to be far worse
Why can't people deal with the fac that Human nature is fundamentally evil? They cannot accept the fact that it is easier for humans in power to be evil than to be good. For us on the street the rational legal system limits our "want" for evil, but the inherent aspects of human nature are still there.
[quote="Colonel Olrik"]Give me the inquisition any time. At least they wouldn't kill me if I kept my mouth shut.
but they did, if u didn't confess to believing in god im pretty sure they killed (after torturing u) u i had a kinda neat link to a site that talked about that. don't know quite where it is though.
And the black plague was rather democratic. Killed everybody, rich, poor, christians, arabs and jews. And didn't do it on purpose. I choose it as well.
didn't it kill three-fourths of europe's population? or was it only one-fourth.
GoneCrazy wrote:
but they did, if u didn't confess to believing in god im pretty sure they killed (after torturing u) u i had a kinda neat link to a site that talked about that. don't know quite where it is though.
But they had a purpose! If you say to people: act as I tell you or you'll be sorry.. Then it's not personnal
Now, if you say: I don't like your kind.. die mothe' fucke' no matter what the other does, just of simple hatred, it's an all new level of evilness.
And the black plague was rather democratic. Killed everybody, rich, poor, christians, arabs and jews. And didn't do it on purpose. I choose it as well.
didn't it kill three-fourths of europe's population? or was it only one-fourth
Once again, besides the point that no disease is evil (just microbes/virus trying to survive), The ones who die are not just a particular race I happen to hate.
Tsyroc wrote:Personally I think writing him off as a monster lets the rest of us off the hook.
It's like thinking he was only a fluke and no other human being could ever do stuff like that, or think those thngs ..
Damn straight! Nobody wants to admit Hitler wasn't a fluke. There were people like him before, and there have / will be people like him in the future.
Right, a lot of people just can't handle that this bum, this failure, this outright loser, this tiny little man known as Hitler did what he did.
They don't want to know that people followed that bum and murdered millions in his name.
It's all much more cosy if we just say Hitler was a monster, because therefore we don't have to admit he was a human like us, we don't have to face that all those people followed him because he's supernatural.
Yeah right.
Give me the inquisition any time. At least they wouldn't kill me if I kept my mouth shut.
Unless your neighbour decided to tell the authorities that you are a heretic...
Evil Horseman, ready to torment the damned!
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS YOU SHALL BE AS GODS YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
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Normaly I apply that to the Swiss Army(You can punch some of them right in the face and they don't even flinch)
But Germans are humans, and humans are Germans
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Colonel Olrik wrote:And I must disagree. Mao, Estaline killed millions of people, but not randomly. They killed possible opponents, relocatted resources. Hitler tried (and almost suceeded) in whiping out an entire race.
I would simply like to mention Hitler did not come even close to wiping out a "race". If we were to hold him responisble for every death possible during the WW2, we're talking, if I recall correctly, 35-40 million people. Frankly, on the large scale of humanity of around 6 billion, that isn't that much. And if you meant Jews, they aren't a race, they're no different than you and me, we're all human. There's only one race and that's the human race.
No see heres the thing the Jews THINK thier better, Two thousand three hundred years ago if thier to be belived they though they where diffrent enough to go around murdering and pillaging a ton of citys if thier to be belived. They may be *just human
But thats not saying much
Oh and Walper where did you get that badly drawn avatar?
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
Robert Walper wrote:
I would simply like to mention Hitler did not come even close to wiping out a "race". If we were to hold him responisble for every death possible during the WW2, we're talking, if I recall correctly, 35-40 million people. Frankly, on the large scale of humanity of around 6 billion, that isn't that much. And if you meant Jews, they aren't a race, they're no different than you and me, we're all human. There's only one race and that's the human race.
Just a comment...
Of course there is only the human race. Let me rephase it. Hitler wanted to kill all atheists, christians, muslims, buddhists, farmers, doctors and jews who fell under the category he designated as the jewish race.
Of those 40 million people 34 million died fighting or being bombed
6 million were exterminated like vermin. And Hitler was ultimately responsible
Have you never seen a nazist propaganda film about the jews?
And if you meant Jews, they aren't a race, they're no different than you and me, we're all human. There's only one race and that's the human race.
Wow... And I was always worried I was the only other human who thought this way. Glad to see someone else who thinks as I do.
On the subject of Hitler. He always was just another human being. He used his communication skills and whatever intelligence he had to get himself to a position of power and did what he felt he needed to do, however terrible and disgusting some of his beliefs were.
I truely feel sorry for all the people that he ordered killed, I really do but, and im sorry to any jews here, but you are no more special or deserving of recognition then those other millions of innocents that have died under other dictators at the time or throughout the centuries.
I find it quite ridiculous the way many people seem to instantly recognize and claim Hitler as the most evil of all people and how all sorts of other men who were infact far more evil then he ever was get no mention or thought at all.
Hitler was human, and the sooner we remember that, the sooner we will realise the tragic capasity that humans have for destruction. He should be remembered as an example of how much humans have the capacity to hate and be monsters. Only then can we begin to take resposability for our own actions, and try and better ourselves.
My two cents..
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Colonel Olrik wrote:Of course there is only the human race. Let me rephase it. Hitler wanted to kill all atheists, christians, muslims, buddhists, farmers, doctors and jews who fell under the category he designated as the jewish race.
Basically, he wanted to kill humans who fit a certain bill.
Of those 40 million people 34 million died fighting or being bombed
6 million were exterminated like vermin. And Hitler was ultimately responsible
I think a more accurate quote would be "Hitler is ultimately responsible for encouraging his fellow human beings to allow and participate in such acts." Do not let other responsible parties off the hook.
Have you never seen a nazist propaganda film about the jews?
Why would I want to? To learn how other's twisted views can consider other fellow humans inferior? Don't need to see that, it serves no purpose. I already know others are capable of such views.
Wicked Pilot wrote:Hitler wasn't human, he was German.
Please keep your bullshit in your mouth.
On the subject:
It would be to easy to call him a monster, he didn't kill all 6 million Jews with his bare hands did he? He had people who supported and helped him to execute his master plan. I agree with Colonel Olrik in the fact that it is more evil to kill people because of something you can't change in this case your supposed race, than killing someone because of political isues, at least you got a chance of surviving by keeping your mouth shut (if you think your life is of more value than your freedom of speech)
Of those 40 million people 34 million died fighting or being bombed
6 million were exterminated like vermin. And Hitler was ultimately responsible
I think a more accurate quote would be "Hitler is ultimately responsible for encouraging his fellow human beings to allow and participate in such acts." Do not let other responsible parties off the hook.
That's what I meant, hence the use of the therm ultimately. And besides of encouraging, he certainly took an active part in commanding the acts.
Why would I want to? To learn how other's twisted views can consider other fellow humans inferior? Don't need to see that, it serves no purpose. I already know others are capable of such views.
I merely wanted to point out that they're extremelly accurate in comparing the jews with a rat infestation that everybody should contribute to put to an end.
Not only inferior, the jews were described as a pitiful plague, this validating the extermination.
Of those 40 million people 34 million died fighting or being bombed
6 million were exterminated like vermin. And Hitler was ultimately responsible
I think a more accurate quote would be "Hitler is ultimately responsible for encouraging his fellow human beings to allow and participate in such acts." Do not let other responsible parties off the hook.
That's what I meant, hence the use of the therm ultimately. And besides of encouraging, he certainly took an active part in commanding the acts.
True enough.
Why would I want to? To learn how other's twisted views can consider other fellow humans inferior? Don't need to see that, it serves no purpose. I already know others are capable of such views.
I merely wanted to point out that they're extremelly accurate in comparing the jews with a rat infestation that everybody should contribute to put to an end.
Not only inferior, the jews were described as a pitiful plague, this validating the extermination.
[/quote]
Doesn't matter what the video attempts to portray, it cannot validate the extermination of certain groups of people. Those who believed them were/are mentally incompetent and lacking morals. Therefore, I have no reason to watch such a video since I can make that distinction beforehand.
(note, I'm not flaming or disagreeing with you, merely pointing out my reasons for not needing to see such a video )
If you've ever read Mein Kampf (I probably spelled that wrong, but I don't speak German), you would know that Hitler was actually a genius. And like all people with such high intelligence, he had no common sense. For example, Einstein had one suit. Well, several of the exact same suit, but it was because he didn't have sense enough to match his own clothes.
Hitler was 19 during WWI and saw what was happening to his motherland. Even then he was smart enough to hide and survive to become the insane man everyone claims. He also claimed to be a devout Christian. What he was doing was creating the perfect human, yet he himself did not match his ideal.
So yes, Hitler was human.
(yeah, I kinda rambled there, but the European battles during WWII is a slight obsession of mine.)
Viel Feind; Viel Ehr´.
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