Artificuially induced Evolutionary changes?

[Stravo]

Please forgive my ignorance on this issue, as I was not a science major in school but a thought occurred to me while shaving.

Is it possible to induce evolutionary changes through artificial means and not through natural selection? To be speceific, in a million years if the majority of humans shave all the time, will there ever come a time that humans will just not grow facial hair? Will the arttiucial means of removing facial hair create an impetus in our evolutionary development so that we eventually evolve the ability to not grow facial hair?

It may sound too simplistic or foolish but extrapolate it out in any other way. The essence of the question is whether man can shape his own evolution or whether it must be nature itself that does the changes.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Ja, got a dog? There's artificial selection right there, bucko.

The Fundies will debate that though, I'll just let my mate's Rottweiler tell them otherwise.

[Lagmonster]

To be specific, in a million years if the majority of humans shave all the time, will there ever come a time that humans will just not grow facial hair? Will the artificial means of removing facial hair create an impetus in our evolutionary development so that we eventually evolve the ability to not grow facial hair?

It won't make a difference. That's like saying, if you stretch every day, your genes will change to make it so that your kids have longer arms.

Natural selection, you see, influences family groups, not individuals. So if we wanted to make it so that humans had less facial hair, we'd have to convince women to only have sex with guys with less natural amounts of facial hair.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Yeah, though the stretching analogy isn't precise.
The only means by which artificial evolution can work is if we breed humans or if we actively exterminate or impoverish a portion of the population. Specifically the ones with less facial hair, rich people don't have enough kids to create the allele frequency needed to significantly change the species, though that means everyone with beards get lots of money and (relatively) safe sex.
*scratches stubble
I think we can work something out.

[Stravo]

Ja, got a dog? There's artificial selection right there, bucko.

The Fundies will debate that though, I'll just let my mate's Rottweiler tell them otherwise.

*Sound of Stravo slapping his own forehead quickly followed by shameful banging of head against a wall*

[NapoleonGH]

there is artificial evolution, but what you described with shaving will not occur unless men who dont have to shave happen to have more kids than men who do have to shave.

Artificial evolution is best shown in the domestication of animals and plants, certain traits were desired, be it docility, extra taste/food per being, etc. And so we bred for them until we were left with the current livestock and types of farm plants

[Alyrium Denryle]

Please forgive my ignorance on this issue, as I was not a science major in school but a thought occurred to me while shaving.

Is it possible to induce evolutionary changes through artificial means and not through natural selection? To be speceific, in a million years if the majority of humans shave all the time, will there ever come a time that humans will just not grow facial hair? Will the arttiucial means of removing facial hair create an impetus in our evolutionary development so that we eventually evolve the ability to not grow facial hair?

It may sound too simplistic or foolish but extrapolate it out in any other way. The essence of the question is whether man can shape his own evolution or whether it must be nature itself that does the changes.

No...not like that. though if men that naturally did not need to shave that often attract more mates than those that dont....

[UltraViolence83]

Funny how beards used to be in style...


Anyway, what's with the American Indians not having any facial hair? Is it natural of them to not have any?

[NapoleonGH]

hmm im actually not sure, i know generally "asian" (though the term doesnt actually refer to all people from the continent of asia and thus is inaccurate but by asian i mean the people formerly known as "orientals" or more accurately east asians from the current terms) dont have as much/as easily aquired facial hair, or is that only japanese people?

[UltraViolence83]

Nah...Asians can grow hair with the best of 'em. Don't forget the AmerIndians were isolated for roughly 10,000 years from Asia.

[Enricko]

In case of shaving, that behavior is cheating evolution. If women prefer mates with no facial hair, in nature, men with less facial hair would reproduce more frequntly, like the male peacocks and their long feathers. But with shaving, men with genetically many facial hair can still attract women.

It's more evident with people who have glasses. I myself need them for driving, working, etc. I'm cheating the natural selection.

[UltraViolence83]

Many women like facial hair. Of course, some women are still trapped in the 70/80's.

[InnerBrat]

Then of course there's the eugenics movement, that wants to sterilise people who scored low on the Stanford-Binet.

Artificial selection is dangerous - look at the logn long list of genetic defects suffered by pedigree dog breeds. The gene pool is too small and the results are inbred.

[Gil Hamilton]

Huh... I could have sworn I made a post in this thread about my dog and now it's gone... interesting.

[Ted C]

Is it possible to induce evolutionary changes through artificial means and not through natural selection? To be speceific, in a million years if the majority of humans shave all the time, will there ever come a time that humans will just not grow facial hair? Will the arttiucial means of removing facial hair create an impetus in our evolutionary development so that we eventually evolve the ability to not grow facial hair?

While such a change is possible (made obvious by what we're doing to domesticated animals), it can't occur in the way you describe it in your shaving example. You have to have a direct correlation between behavior and reproductive success, so the fact that you shave every day does not mean your descendants won't grow beards. If everybody wanted a smooth face and there was a substantial death rate due to shaving-related injuries, then people who didn't have to shave to stay smooth would have an evolutionary advantage.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Huh... I could have sworn I made a post in this thread about my dog and now it's gone... interesting.

Probably did, the TK crack attack probably killed it.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Please forgive my ignorance on this issue, as I was not a science major in school but a thought occurred to me while shaving.

Is it possible to induce evolutionary changes through artificial means and not through natural selection? To be speceific, in a million years if the majority of humans shave all the time, will there ever come a time that humans will just not grow facial hair? Will the arttiucial means of removing facial hair create an impetus in our evolutionary development so that we eventually evolve the ability to not grow facial hair?

It may sound too simplistic or foolish but extrapolate it out in any other way. The essence of the question is whether man can shape his own evolution or whether it must be nature itself that does the changes.

The short answer is no, the only way to bring about an evolutionary change like that is with natural selection. Just because I might choose to hack off the left arm of every man, woman, and child in a given population for the next fifty generations doesn't mean that you will end up with a population of freaks missing their left arms from birth as a direct result.

What would happen is if somebody was born with their left arm missing due to a mutation, that mutation would become desireable because it might spare someone's child the unpleasant experience of me sawing off their left arm. As a result, the person with the mutation would become a desirable reproductive partner. As a result, natural selection might drive the incidence or people born with no left arm up over the course of those fifty generations. However, that would be a result of people seeking out others who were missing their left arms to begin with, not because some bizarre genetic change took place in those whose arms were cut off with my saw.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I just noticed that my post didn't really address the main point, but as it has already been stated, no. Only genetic changes can cause evolution from the current biological design, so my stabbing my eye out would not cause my kin to have punctured eye balls.