Born Again "theology"

[Superman]

John 3:3- "...unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." NKJ

This is the essence of evangelical theology. Many fundamentalists believe that one must go through the ritual of Baptism, and ask Jesus to come into their lives to be "saved."

Is this Calvinism? We don't see ANY theology of this sort at all up until around the 16 or 17 century, and, I believe, it may have started with John Calvin. Can you guys help me out here and provide some references?

On the topic of evangelicalism, does anyone else find it interesting that their ENTIRE theological existence lies within this one tiny passage in the Gospel of John?

[Slartibartfast]

I don't quite understand your question. From what I know from my catholic education (yech) baptism has been an important part of christianity since... well, since ever.

[Superman]

I talking about this notion of being "born again." Catholicism really has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, I would venture a guess that this "born again" stuff is in part further protest of being literally born into a church (Catholicism, etc).

[Hethrir]

OK. Calvinism is the carry on from Luther, which is questionable (Calvin that is), but many different denominations believe in being born again. The major difference between Calvinist and Lutherans is that the Calvinists believe that once you have been born again once, you will never go to hell no matter what happens after that. Lutherans believe that it is still possible to "fall from grace."

(bold is mine)

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

That is (one place of a few) where baptism is mentioned.

[Superman]

I am aware of the fundamentals of Calvinism, and how it differs from what Luther taught. I am wondering, though, as to where this "Born again" started. Many fundie denominations hold it as their chief tenant, and since it is not historical, when did it start?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

OK. Calvinism is the carry on from Luther, which is questionable (Calvin that is), but many different denominations believe in being born again. The major difference between Calvinist and Lutherans is that the Calvinists believe that once you have been born again once, you will never go to hell no matter what happens after that. Lutherans believe that it is still possible to "fall from grace."

No, that's incorrect. Calvinism holds to the doctrine of "Double Predestination"--the most extreme of the Christian doctrines. Essentially, Calvinists are "The Elect" of God. According to Calvinism, essentially, God has chosen in advance who will go to heaven and who will go to hell--and there's nothing you can do about that.

So there's a segment of the world's population that will go to Hell, and a segment of the world's population that will go to Heaven. Just. That. Simple. And God has chosen them ahead of time.

...Somehow, though, Calvinists claim that there is still free will anyway. Yes, that's right. They say that the person is the one who actually chooses Heaven or Hell with their behaviour--God just "Knows" the result. It's a clever philosophical argument, but one that doesn't hold up to any real scrutiny.

This is also how Calvinists avoid members of the Church proclaiming to be part of "The Elect" and then acting wild and crazy since they know they're going to Heaven and nothing can stop them. They say that the only way to tell if someone is a member of The Elect is not by a profession of faith--like baptism, declaring yourself to be Born Again, etc, but by your behaviour.

Essentially, Calvinists, or "The Elect", are those who behave like good Calvinists in addition to professions of the faith. It's entirely possible to profess in the faith but be predestined to Hell--and other members of the congregation can tell if you are by watching your behaviour. Likewise, someone who converts to Calvinism and maintains moral uprightness is an obvious member of The Elect.

This exercises a powerful social factor in the church, since if you don't maintain Calvinist morality, your congregation can judge you to be not of "The Elect" and thus predestined to go to Hell, something you can do absolutely nothing about.

[Hethrir]

Not exactly sure what you mean, but here are some random verses

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

( bold is mine )

01 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
02 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
03 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
04 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
05 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
06 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
07 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

[Superman]

Yes, I know the Biblical versus but when did these church denominations (fundies) start proclaiming it?

We mostly see this in the various Baptist denominations. When did this stuff start?

[Peregrin Toker]

This is the essence of evangelical theology. Many fundamentalists believe that one must go through the ritual of Baptism, and ask Jesus to come into their lives to be "saved."

I thought that a "born again Christian" was one who had stopped being a Christian and then converted back to Christianity again.

[LadyTevar]

This is the essence of evangelical theology. Many fundamentalists believe that one must go through the ritual of Baptism, and ask Jesus to come into their lives to be "saved."

I thought that a "born again Christian" was one who had stopped being a Christian and then converted back to Christianity again.

Nope. It's a basic tenet of every Protestant-based Church I know of, especially the various Baptist branches.

*walks off, one old hymn stuck in her mind now*
~Ye must be born again (again) Ye must be born again...~

[jegs2]

Nope. It's a basic tenet of every Protestant-based Church I know of, especially the various Baptist branches.

*walks off, one old hymn stuck in her mind now*
~Ye must be born again (again) Ye must be born again...~

Superman posted the relevant verse, and I've seen others posted as well, all making the same point. Water baptism is a symbolic representation of "spiritual rebirth," whereby one "dies" to the old sinful nature (being immersed and "drowning" in water) to be "re-born" in the Faith (arising from the water as a "new creature" in Christ). In essense, the old nature has passed away. As to the works that should be evident, that is shown in what is called, "fruits of the spirit."

Gal 5: 22 - 26
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
NIV
Thus we see the evidence of one's rebirth into the Faith...

[Johonebesus]

Being "born again" has always been a fundamental part of Christianity. Theologically, when an infant is baptized, it is born again (one time a Baptist minister came to my door to preach at me, and I annoyed him by arguing that I was already born again thanks to my infant baptism, and got into quite a theological argument with him, and tore him to shreds). Baptism of some sort has always been required for salvation. Go to mass regularly and you will eventually hear a homily about being born again into a new life through grace. The basic language is very old. Many Protestants believed that baptism must be a free choice, and therefore children should not be baptized. Once adult baptism became the norm, it became a very emotional event, the Born Again experience. I expect it became a big deal first with the early Protestants going around telling people that their infant baptisms were worthless and they had to be rebaptized (the Anabaptists), and then evolved into the modern phenomenon with the Great Awakening, the first evangelical movement in America in the eighteenth century.

On the topic of evangelicalism, does anyone else find it interesting that their ENTIRE theological existence lies within this one tiny passage in the Gospel of John?

That is a hallmark of evangelical congregations. They obsess over a few short passages without investing the time or energy needed to rigorously study the Bible or theology. The Rapture is based on one line about the faithful meeting Jesus in the clouds at the end of time. None-the-less, the Born Again experience has more than one line to support it, it is no more than a newer interpretation of an ancient doctrine.